Work Decision

jeremywatts2005

I am on a 6 month to perm and have been on the contract 3 weeks. I make 112K a year nice job, but the turnover is seeming kind of high in the Infosec area. In 3 weeks I am on my 3rd manager. The manager who hired in lasted 3 months. One manager decided I was not skill fit for his team and now I have a manager who kind of got stuck with me. I have another offer pending for 95 -97K which is at most 15K less than I make. It is a Perm position and not a contract at all. Plus I have full benefits whereas the 112K job I do not. Would you take the risk and try to ride the higher paying 6 month to perm and obtain the conversion salary of 108K? Or would you go with the lower paying perm job and not risk the contract. It is a huge decision for me. I am always under the impression a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Also I am the sole breadwinner in my family. My wife is a stay at home mom. What say you with this challenging decision?

N2IT

Only you can make that call.

What's your objectives? How much money do you need? How risk averse are you?

I never like going backwards financially personally but if you think there is significant risk of not being brought on full time you may want to consider. Have you asked the current manager if they plan on bringing you on full time?

There is not enough information for me to give you a honest opinion.

What are the places of employment?
How far of a commute is there?
Job promotion potential? With high attrition there is sometimes high promotion advancement.
What type of work are both the jobs? I realize infosec but that can be a lot of different things. Which one do you like more? Do you like your current job?


My gut is to go with the for sure FTE position and negotiate the highest salary of the provided range.

NinjaBoy

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

...It is a huge decision for me. I am always under the impression a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Also I am the sole breadwinner in my family. My wife is a stay at home mom. What say you with this challenging decision?

Personally as I'm the main breadwinner in my family, I would chose the guaranteed income. But that's me...

WilliamK99

I would look at the long term....Too many times people look at the short term benefits and make a decision, but you are right, this field is volatile right now and there are a ton of people who are going to get a rude awakening... Take a deep hard look at the next 5 to 10 years and then make a decision as to what is best for you and your family.

darkerosxx

A perm with benefits and pay close to your contract is almost guaranteed to equal out to more pay than the contract, right?

jeremywatts2005

Commute is the same in either situation. So that is a non factor. The contract company is in the financial sector and the perm company in the telecom sector. The positions are identicaly in job description. The contract however I am a backup for the main office and more of an insurance policy in case of a disater. The perm I would be the main employee and on the front lines. Being a backup kind of makes me feel that I might be an easy target to **** since I am a contractor with a high salary. If I start with the perm company than I would have 6 months toward a pay raise. Where I would just be starting to work for a pay raise in 6 months. I just am not sure if they are going to do the perm thing on the contract or not. I also am concerned with 5 folks gone who were here less than 4 months. The perm company is just starting their cyberforensics sector and I would be on the ground floor building it. Whereas the one I am a contractor on is trying to be built but there is not any direction or money. The plans keep changing along with the staff. The perm there is a lot of cash being thrown into it and is major focal point for company and they have a desire to hire and keep employees to develop it. The perm also pays 8K in trainig and the contract only gives me any training pay after I convert and it is 5K. I am leaning toward the perm because of the stability.

lsud00d

darkerosxx wrote: »

A perm with benefits and pay close to your contract is almost guaranteed to equal out to more pay than the contract, right?

This is typically the case as the usual benefits (medical, PTO, dental, vision, 401k/matching, etc) range anywhere from $5k-30k on average, with $10k-20k being the normal range.

tkerber

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

Commute is the same in either situation. So that is a non factor. The contract company is in the financial sector and the perm company in the telecom sector. The positions are identicaly in job description. The contract however I am a backup for the main office and more of an insurance policy in case of a disater. The perm I would be the main employee and on the front lines. Being a backup kind of makes me feel that I might be an easy target to **** since I am a contractor with a high salary. If I start with the perm company than I would have 6 months toward a pay raise. Where I would just be starting to work for a pay raise in 6 months. I just am not sure if they are going to do the perm thing on the contract or not. I also am concerned with 5 folks gone who were here less than 4 months. The perm company is just starting their cyberforensics sector and I would be on the ground floor building it. Whereas the one I am a contractor on is trying to be built but there is not any direction or money. The plans keep changing along with the staff. The perm there is a lot of cash being thrown into it and is major focal point for company and they have a desire to hire and keep employees to develop it. The perm also pays 8K in trainig and the contract only gives me any training pay after I convert and it is 5K. I am leaning toward the perm because of the stability.

Obviously only you can make the ultimate decision. However, it sounds like the permanent job has a lot more opportunity. Plus being IT for tech company is better IMO. I just started working for an MSP and I can honestly say I will try to work for a technical company at any chance I get. When you work for a technical company like an MSP or ISP, I usually feel like there is a better atmosphere and more respect. Whereas if you're working for a financial firm you're just a necessary expense.

NotHackingYou

I would make the switch to the perm job. When the manager decided you were not a good skill fit was it because your were over or under qualified?

jeremywatts2005

I was initially hired for incident response. Then I was switched to analytics because the manager for incident response was let go and his team dissolved. Then after a week in analytics I was told that I my skills were a better fit in forencis. I have only been on the contract 3 weeks how can anyone know anything about someone's skills in three weeks? I did not even have access to anything yet lol It seems like a game of pass the contractor and if no one needs him then **** him along with a couple other guys in the same boat.

NotHackingYou

Based on that it sounds like the permanent gig is better for you.

ayori

Reading what's been said here, +1 to perm.

Adding to what tkerber mentioned:
I haven't been around that long in the industry but I've always felt that working for a tech company is better as they recognize your importance more than let's say an insurance company.

For example, the company I work for right now is one of the biggest tech companies around and they have a lot of growth opportunities for people who want to move up in technology. They essentially matched the people manager positions and created ones for tech (i.e. VP of Marketing vs Technology Fellow or Finance Director vs Technology Principal).

With other industries that most you'll probably get is Senior <Tech Position Here> before you turn into a people manager to move up..

jibbajabba

Can't help but think you are trying to convince yourself already that perm is the way to go but can't quite pull the trigger yet

In this case I'd say perm all the way.

stryder144

If your wife is anything like mine, the stability of the perm position would translate into a deeper sense of security for her. While I don't always appreciate the security/stability aspect of her personality, it definitely helps when making job change decisions.

On balance, though the pay is technically lower, I still think that the perm position is the one to focus on. That is, unless there is something in the offer that doesn't quite square right with you.

Cheers

kohr-ah

I been on both sides of the fence before like where you and and I agree with everyone else....
Go with the permanent one if the place seems like somewhere you want to be.

coreyb80

I would definitely go w/ the perm position for stability as well for your own sanity.

colemic

Another vote for perm. My wife stays at home too and I don't make near as much as you would in that position... but we are happy with the tradeoff.

puertorico1985

I'm not sure I am the only one thinking this but the perm position seems like a no-brainer. The benefits alone would make up the difference that you would receive in pay, and being perm vs contract would take the stress off of you in a sense that contracts are not always renewed. We live in a changing world, even more so with IT (meaning that nothing is ever truly permanent/static), but taking the perm position would give me peace of mind, which is enough for me to not have to think too hard about it.

jeremywatts2005

Well I made my choice and I am staying put. The perm sounds great but the dip in salary was just not something I could stomach. My current contract offers benefits and I have TriCare reserve select as a Guardsman. When I boiled it all down taking a 15K pay cut (112K to 97K ) was too much. I will find another position in that range if I need to. Once you go over the 6 figures it is hard to want to drop under it. I have sold out for the money and for a much bigger challenge. I started asking for additional work to dig in deep on the contract so I can make perm . I have taken on 4 or 5 large projects as a lead and I am also doing some additional training with others.

N2IT

@ Jeremy I agree. It surprises me how many people dismiss 15 grand on this forum. People I personally know would never condone that in almost any circumstance. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's different. Maybe it's the way I am raised and the people I hang out with.

I've turned down "great" opportunities strictly due to pay. There comes a point and time when experience loses value and pay becomes more important. For the beginner starting out, sure 2 less dollars an hour to learn routers and switches over desktop support makes sense. But when you get older, in your 30's etc I'm not buying it anymore in most situations.

Besides hopping from one short termed effort to another is a killer. I wish you luck and hope you make it through a few years at that awesome pay.

JMHO

anoeljr

At the end of the day, you have to do what's best for you. As long as you're happy and can still do what you need to do then that's what matters.

BradleyHU

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

Well I made my choice and I am staying put. The perm sounds great but the dip in salary was just not something I could stomach. My current contract offers benefits and I have TriCare reserve select as a Guardsman. When I boiled it all down taking a 15K pay cut (112K to 97K ) was too much. I will find another position in that range if I need to. Once you go over the 6 figures it is hard to want to drop under it. I have sold out for the money and for a much bigger challenge. I started asking for additional work to dig in deep on the contract so I can make perm . I have taken on 4 or 5 large projects as a lead and I am also doing some additional training with others.

hey, i dont blame you. Plus if and when you become perm, you'll get bennies also....and only lose $4k of your salary in the conversion...thats not that bad...you just got to stick it out for another 5 months...lol...

BradleyHU

n2it wrote: »

@ jeremy i agree. It surprises me how many people dismiss 15 grand on this forum. People i personally know would never condone that in almost any circumstance. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's different. Maybe it's the way i am raised and the people i hang out with.

I've turned down "great" opportunities strictly due to pay. there comes a point and time when experience loses value and pay becomes more important. for the beginner starting out, sure 2 less dollars an hour to learn routers and switches over desktop support makes sense. But when you get older, in your 30's etc i'm not buying it anymore in most situations.

Besides hopping from one short termed effort to another is a killer. I wish you luck and hope you make it through a few years at that awesome pay.

Jmho

egg-zack-lee!!!