Weird interview!

iBrokeIT

markulous wrote: »

IQ test questions can be learned also. I guarantee you that from reading this thread, I won't ever get stumped on a similar question to the Atlantic = 80, not because I worked it out the solution through my head, but because I saw the solution on this forum.

Pretty much. I remember Asif Dasl mentioned in a previous thread that he has taken IQ tests and was testing for Mensa so he more than likely has come across those type of questions before.

kbowen0188

It may be worth noting that I am apparently only the second IT person they have ever hired. Most of their employees are data analysts and they get the exact same test treatment, though without the IT test. Perhaps they are just still working out how to interview for the position. I really have no idea. I can see how they would be using it to judge for general creativity when it comes to approaching a problem, though. When it comes to their data analysts, apparently part of the interview process is handing them some popular data education book and having them read it as much as they can until the next interview. Then they are supposed to present their understanding of the concepts that they read.

I actually like that approach. I think it is fairly unique and you get a free book out of it!

But yeah, from what I can tell, the package looks to be worth it. Around 51k+ a year, full benefits, catered lunches and happy hour on Fridays, and they also buy you all the educational books that you want off of Amazon. They apparently like for you to read, even if the topic isn't what you are skilled in. I liked that.

But, yeah, we will see. I did get called back for a third interview, in person with the IT admin and the HR admin. It really all banks (for me at least) on how well I click with the IT admin, since it seems like we'd be a two-man team.

slinuxuzer

markulous wrote: »

Okay that's where I have the issue. We are going to come across issues that we do not know how to resolve. Why not give him an issue that you aren't assuming he knows and see how he walks through it rather than an obscure IQ test question? You can see how his mind works through a directly related IT issue and have a more accurate assessment.

IQ test questions can be learned also. I guarantee you that from reading this thread, I won't ever get stumped on a similar question to the Atlantic = 80, not because I worked it out the solution through my head, but because I saw the solution on this forum.

With that in mind, I don't see it gauging really anything at all.

This was kind of my point, I can't tell you how many interviews I've gone to and been asked to describe AD fsmo roles because the genius IT staff googled "interview questions for sys admins" I understand the faulty logic behind this question. I think a better way determine how skilled I am at solving problems is to ask me to describe several issues I've encountered and see if I can methodically talk through the situation, trust me I'll get plenty of chances to screw this up and it has the added bonus of possibly revealing weak areas in my technical skills.

So back to my original point, the way I like to approach the problem of interviewers asking cutesy questions like this is by being prepared for their "trivia"

We've all heard "what's your greatest weakness" and most of us have a canned answer.

Asif Dasl

iBrokeIT wrote: »

Pretty much. I remember Asif Dasl mentioned in a previous thread that he has taken IQ tests and was testing for Mensa so he more than likely has come across those type of questions before.

I should also note I got my test results back and I didn't get in!! By a long way - I got a 109, so average-ish intelligence. Which is OK with me, because either way, if you have a high IQ or not you still need to apply yourself, nothing comes easy just because you are smart. In fact there are some problems with having a high IQ which you can find out if your interested by Googling it.

I'm kinda surprised by the reaction though, there are other IQ questions which could have me stumped and did stump me on the day of the Mensa test. Being timed is the real problem because with enough time you could probably work out most of the problems.

Anyways, good luck with interview kbowen0188!

datacomboss

Those tests are bullsh. A well trained monkey can do most IT tasks.

I've worked in very high-level research where 80% of the employees were PhDs (In computer science no less. Including several Mensa members) and many of them couldn't do basic troubleshooting on the Unix boxes in the research labs.

Sure, you don't want someone with an <85 IQ, but you don't need 130+ either.

sj4088

DevilWAH wrote: »

There is nothing "trick" about these questions. They are not set out to trick you, but to see how you approach a problem. And for support how you approach issues if very important. You are expected to be dealing with problems and from experience we all know that now two problems are the same.

No where in the question does it mention Oceans, and as a timed test its not going to be based on general knowledge or require complex maths that only few people will have. So you can quickly eliminate complex solutions and look for possible simple solutions. The first approach of these would be to question..

"if letters = numbers what does Atlantic =?" that takes a seconds to test that and you get 80. Problem solved.

Put in another way, "I cant save files to the network drive", you could go off looking if the filer is up, or there password is unlocked, or 1000 and 1 other things. But good trouble shooting starts from the basic "Does there PC have network access?", followed by, "is there network cable plugged in?".

So test the simple / quick solutions first, before moving on to the complex, time consuming and generally more unlikely. And this is what a question like this is testing.

DevilWAH wrote: »

Because thinking up a novel IT issue that does not have a walk through resolution is hard. If I ask you "A user tries to open a web page and the page is blank trouble shoot." I am making the assumption that the person has some knowledge of how a web browser works and common trouble shooting steps. So asking that question puts some one who has never come across that issue as a disadvantage to some one who has. So potential employee A might be amazing with office apps, but no nothing of data bases, where as person B might be terrible in general but know lots about Linux, and beacause i cant test every technology I might just happen to ask questions that B know but A struggles with.

No I think 70+% of an interview should be on the technologies and skills you need for the post. But the question like answered here is a basic form of IQ test. It does not relay on any thing other than basic maths and English skills.

putting this different approaches to questioning a candidate can give you a good idea about there future potential, if you understand what each test is telling you and add a bit of "gut feeling" to the interview. So doing great at an IQ test means nothing, just as ace'ing the IT technical questions, I know plenty of people with certs coming out of their ears that cant manage a basic network design/deployment with out help.

A good interviewer will just use these test to hint at a persons strengths and weaknesses, there are many different areas of conative ability and being poor in one is not a crime or mean you are unfit for a job. But at the same time whats wrong with an employer wanting to gauge them to insure their team as a whole has good skills across the board.

I get what you are saying however I kind of disagree. While good troubleshooting skills require a good troubleshooting process(test the quick and most likely thing first, etc) good troubleshooting skills also require some base level knowledge. In other words no matter how good your troubleshooting methodology is if you have no knowledge of the subject matter you aren't going to be very effective.

Using your file example as a reference if I know nothing about networks or PCs I wouldn't even know that that the PC need network access in the first place. So in what order I "would of" checked it means nothing because I wouldn't even knew to check it at all.

As markulous pointed out you could of asked the "I cant save files to the network drive" directly and you would of got to see how I troubleshoot and my base level network knowledge. You could of killed to birds with one stone.

There is no way I would hire a person with a good troubleshooting methodology and a "high IQ" but knew nothing about linux servers for a linux admin position. I just wouldn't.

Having said that I don't see a problem if a couple of questions like that are part of the interview process. However the meat and potatoes(80%+) of the interview should be on the technologies in the post imo.

DevilWAH

markulous wrote: »

IQ test questions can be learned also. I guarantee you that from reading this thread, I won't ever get stumped on a similar question to the Atlantic = 80, not because I worked it out the solution through my head, but because I saw the solution on this forum.

With that in mind, I don't see it gauging really anything at all.

That is not true, true IQ tests can't be "learnt" they are designed specifically to give repeatable scores. Assuming you don't get identical paper that you have researched and memorized the answers, doing mutiply IQ tests will at best improve you score by 5-10 points. Even knowing the here there are so many variation on the theme. Maybe it could be a=26 b =25... or a=1 b =2 c =4 d=8, or and other simple pattern matching. For a proper IQ test the time taken to solve the questions is important, and the solutions are varied, so simply trying to learn of the variations possible and working through them all for each questions is not going to help.

If learning IQ was possible every one would be a member of Mensa as the depending what test you take, its between 135 and 145, which is only 40% above average. And there is no limit to how many times you can apply, but if you score below 130 on your first attempt you are very unlikely to get in no matter how many times you take a test.

DevilWAH

datacomboss wrote: »

Those tests are bullsh. A well trained monkey can do most IT tasks.

I've worked in very high-level research where 80% of the employees were PhDs (In computer science no less. Including several Mensa members) and many of them couldn't do basic troubleshooting on the Unix boxes in the research labs.

Sure, you don't want someone with an <85 IQ, but you don't need 130+ either.

Might not need it but it dose not hurt to have a high IQ.

1 with great trouble shooting skills, and great Linux skills but an IQ of 100, and a second with almost identical trouble shooting and Linux scores and you like them both but the second has an IQ of 160+, it might well be the deciding factor.

IQ is not what is used any more any way, one of the well used test is Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. This dosen't just come back with a single number, but scores for various cognitive functions.

No one is suggestion you hire based only on an intelligent test score. but for entry level jobs were people don't have experience to judge them on, its another tool in the box to narrow down the list. I would always say the finally disecsion is based on gut as much as any thing else.

markulous

DevilWAH wrote: »

That is not true, true IQ tests can't be "learnt" they are designed specifically to give repeatable scores. Assuming you don't get identical paper that you have researched and memorized the answers, doing mutiply IQ tests will at best improve you score by 5-10 points. Even knowing the here there are so many variation on the theme. Maybe it could be a=26 b =25... or a=1 b =2 c =4 d=8, or and other simple pattern matching. For a proper IQ test the time taken to solve the questions is important, and the solutions are varied, so simply trying to learn of the variations possible and working through them all for each questions is not going to help.

If learning IQ was possible every one would be a member of Mensa as the depending what test you take, its between 135 and 145, which is only 40% above average. And there is no limit to how many times you can apply, but if you score below 130 on your first attempt you are very unlikely to get in no matter how many times you take a test.

You're implying that you can't study for IQ tests then?

Do you feel they are an accurate marker of intelligence?

Asif Dasl

DevilWAH wrote: »

If learning IQ was possible every one would be a member of Mensa as the depending what test you take, its between 135 and 145, which is only 40% above average. And there is no limit to how many times you can apply, but if you score below 130 on your first attempt you are very unlikely to get in no matter how many times you take a test.

The required scores are 132 and 148 depending on the test, 100 is still the average IQ for both tests however. But I agree below 130 and you are unlikely to get in to Mensa. If you fail to get in you have to wait 12 months which means there is some learning that can be done. The test I took was from 1963!! which means thousands, hundreds of thousand will have taken the test and it will be accurate.

DevilWAH

markulous wrote: »

You're implying that you can't study for IQ tests then?

Do you feel they are an accurate marker of intelligence?

The classic IQ test is just a normalized % score of people who have taken a test. 100 a IQ of 100 represents the mean score of every one who has taken the test. So if 1,000,000,000 people have taken it then it tells you for that test if you are above or below average. But it does not tell you any thing about what the test is actually testing. Bodies such as Mensa have the whole purpose of producing a varied test that covers many aspects related to intelligent and have spent many years refining the test to be consistent and representative. However an IQ you might find online is probable made up in an afternoon and shows nothing.

the Adult intelligent scale is a more accurate test as it is designed to test specific measurable areas of intelligence. For example one of the areas it tests is working memory. (read a number of sequences of 10 single digit numbers and recall them, some forward and backwards), or process speed, (how quickly you can add and subtract simple numbers, 4+6+7-2+7-1= kind of thing).

tests are devised that are very sprecific in what they test and they are aimed at testing raw ability of the brain rather than learnt behavior. So for example I have very poor working memory of about 5-6 numbers in a sequence (which explains why English is hard for me as I forget the letters in a word before I get to the end), but my mind has a good processing speed. It does not say if I am intelligenct but does indicate what task I might fine "easy" and which ones "hard".

Intelligence means nothing, like some one who can't paint might still be an amazing musician. They are both still artists but in different fields. So having a high IQ, might mean you can read a book and meomorise it word for word, or maybe you can't remember a thing but understand the theories in the book.

So nothing is a good marker of intelligence as it is not one thing, but if I am looking for a code tester it might be nice to know that they have raw skills in memory, and attention to detail. If you know some has a brain that is very good at spotting syntax errors, this might be worth knowing.

DevilWAH

Asif Dasl wrote: »

The required scores are 132 and 148 depending on the test, 100 is still the average IQ for both tests however. But I agree below 130 and you are unlikely to get in to Mensa. If you fail to get in you have to wait 12 months which means there is some learning that can be done. The test I took was from 1963!! which means thousands, hundreds of thousand will have taken the test and it will be accurate.

mensa do not use numerical scores, the entry level is >98% of the people who have taken the test. and has to be a test ratified by them.

Just for fun an easy one
Sally likes 225 but not 224; she likes 900 but not 800; she likes 144 but not 145. Which does she like - 1600 or 1700?


1600
1700

Asif Dasl

1600!!

225 = 15*15, 900 = 30*30, 144 = 12*12, 1600 = 40*40

Mensa Score Sheet wrote:

Unfortunately, this is below the level required to qualify for membership of Mensa i.e. a score in the top 2% for the population (Cattell B - 148, Culture Fair - 132)

This is the quote from my Mensa score sheet. I'd rather not scan it so it can be modified by someone to show they entered Mensa.

DevilWAH

Asif Dasl wrote: »

1600!!

225 = 15*15, 900 = 30*30, 144 = 12*12, 1600 = 40*40
This is the quote from my Mensa score sheet. I'd rather not scan it so it can be modified by someone to show they entered Mensa.

you can also get the same answer by adding up the didgets in the numbers

225 = 9 , 900 = 9, 144 = 9, 1600 = 7

224 = 8, 800 = 8, 145 = 10, 1700 = 8

she likes the sum of the number that = an odd number

Asif Dasl

No.. I like my answer better!! haha!!

tkerber

kbowen0188 wrote: »

Desktop Support Tech. It is for a well-known ecommerce advertising company in the area that is partnered with Google, apparently. They are only about 80 users strong, so the IT team just consists of one admin. I would be his assistant, so I suppose it is also a bit of a Junior Sys Admin position? Would be imaging computers, being a help desk, fixing computers and doing basic work with company servers.

And yeah, the typing test was odd. They just pulled up one of those WPM tests from Google and had me do it. They requested 55+ WPM so I suppose they just wanted to make sure.

The company has amazing reviews via Glassdoor, but the interview process had less than stellar reviews. Quite a few people have apparently walked out of it.

All the tests appeared to be printed from the internet except for the technical test. That was handwritten by who I am assuming was the IT admin, so that was a nice touch.

Wow all that for Desktop Support... The most extreme thing that has ever happened to me in an interview was not anywhere near this. The interviewers at the time handed me a 30 question networking test and they made me answer every question in front of them and tell them why I chose that answer. I did pretty well and I got that job, but it was still shocking to me.

Also last year I had a phone interview with an engineer from Google in Mountain View CA. It was for an internal desktop support position and although it was highly technical, even they don't pull those kind of tests on people to my knowledge. The HR recruiter told me their process and it had nothing about IQ tests and all that garbage. I agree with most on here, I would've just walked out. Waste of my time for a Desktop position...

tprice5

I guess I am not Mensa material because this was my thought process....

Atlantic = 80

Atlantic = Ocean

Ocean = 80

Pacific = Ocean

Pacifc = 80

DevilWAH

tprice5 wrote: »

I guess I am not Mensa material because this was my thought process....

Atlantic = 80

Atlantic = Ocean

Ocean = 80

Pacific = Ocean

Pacifc = 80

While incorrect the logic to that is perfect

atorven

At what level are these kind of questions acceptable/expected?

DevilWAH

atorven wrote: »

At what level are these kind of questions acceptable/expected?

Any and none!

kbowen0188

Well, I did fine with the third phase. It was an panel interview. Turns out there is a fourth phase; another panel interview. I've never actually had anything more than a phone interview and then an in-person interview, so this is certainly an adventure!

bobloblaw

Fourth Phase!

I'm loving this thread. This is amazing.

DoubleNNs

I agree - this is interesting. Subbing to the thread to hear bout the next interview.

Good luck kbowen0188!

kbowen0188

I thought it went well, but I got a generic email today saying that they would not be able to extend me an offer.

Which is actually okay. One of the weirdest things was that the IT admin had my copy of the technology test and was sitting there Googling all of the answers. Then he would quiz me based on what he found during his search. There was practically no eye contact the entire time, nor did he ask me anything outside of what the test had already asked. Every time I asked them questions they seemed a little put off and would give me very generic responses. I was talking with a technical recruiter the next day and apparently she had heard quite a bit about them. They have been trying to fill the job position for five months now.

They also really wanted someone with server admin experience, though there would be very little interaction with servers. All in all, it was a very very strange experience.

Shdwmage

It must be something in the water.

markulous

kbowen0188 wrote: »

I thought it went well, but I got a generic email today saying that they would not be able to extend me an offer.

Which is actually okay. One of the weirdest things was that the IT admin had my copy of the technology test and was sitting there Googling all of the answers. Then he would quiz me based on what he found during his search. There was practically no eye contact the entire time, nor did he ask me anything outside of what the test had already asked. Every time I asked them questions they seemed a little put off and would give me very generic responses. I was talking with a technical recruiter the next day and apparently she had heard quite a bit about them. They have been trying to fill the job position for five months now.

They also really wanted someone with server admin experience, though there would be very little interaction with servers. All in all, it was a very very strange experience.

They don't sound very fun to work for based on what you have said so far.

iBrokeIT

Unrealistic expectations, don't know what they want, burdensome hiring process, lack of candidate engagement... this is the employer version of the candidate that shows up reeking of too much cologne, has no idea what the employer does and is poorly dressed with bad hygiene. They may very well be a great employer to work for but their hiring process sure isn't presenting themselves that way.

Heero

Man, all that for a desktop support tech position? I would have walked away a long time ago. They are just throwing job every possible interview/testing technique at the wall (you) and seeing what sticks.

DoubleNNs

As the OP said, a lot of people walked out during the interview process. I think I would have done the same. Sounds like a strange experience indeed.

Shdwmage

I know this is probably not the popular opinion here, but hiring IT staff can be a scary experience. Especially with a small department. In the end when you hire someone you slowly grant them more and more access, and eventually they end up with keys to the kingdom. So they do what they can to ensure the best possible fit. Someone whom they can trust. Lets face it, IT people garner a lot of trust, deserved or not.