Careers are like investments

N2IT

The sooner you invest the larger the returns.

I had a friend who graduated back in 2000 with a CS degree. Obviously a good degree but right out of college leveraged a friend of his and went to work straight for SBC now AT&T. After spending 10 years there as a Senior System Analyst he moved on to another systems job for ~5 years and just landed a global solutions architect position. This also includes sales and a lot of CRM from what he has told me. Not sure if that is the norm or not.

My point is to toss this out like a case study. It seems the friends I have that are making a killing or who are starting to making a lot, got an really early start on their career. They also have a lot of experience at least with one position. This friend like I mentioned earlier had 10 years + at AT&T.

I have other friends with similar track records.

It seems most of them first received a degree in Mathematics, Computer Science, Actuarial Science, Electrical Engineering. Most of the time the school was good but not great by reputation. It's seems to me that what you get is more important than where you get it from.

Their next move was to land with a large corporation and stay there for quite a while. At least 5 - 10 years.

Then after this foundation had been laid they either take one more position or bounce after this and land a big time position. (Some of the positions are Sales Engineers, Engagement Managers, Account Managers, Solution Architects).

Now I realize there are other ways to go about success, a lot of ways in fact. One of my friends has been a Java developer for 15 years and never worked longer than 3 years somewhere.

My conclusion is make sure to land a degree that is sought after. Then go for a brand name company and stay their for a long time, through thick and thin to accrue those years of service and experience. Then either transition one more time or if you are ready hit the payload.

Sorry for the rant just wanted to get these observations out there.

JDMurray

Never stop thinking about what you can do to improve both your resume and your curriculum vitae. Everyone should start doing that before they graduate from college.

shodown

Everybody has to find there own path. In you 20's you should be trying as many things as possible, and learning as much as you can about a lot of things. Then when you hit your late 20's early 30's you take that experience and your path and turn it into something great. The reason I say this is because its not all about money or your job, its about a happy balanced life.

Asif Dasl

Wait.. what happened to the advice that in order to get a significant raise you usually have to move companies?

Maybe things are different in the U.S. - my plan for success definitely does not include being a corporate drone for 10 to 15 years. That's maybe how others do it but frankly I would dread going to the same place for 3+ years let alone 10+... I want to be retired before I'm 50 and being an employee ain't going to get me there that's for sure.

shodown

=asif dasl


this person gets it.

the_Grinch

Your career, as with life, is whatever path you choose to take. For a long time career meant not only what you did, but who you did it for. At this point in time I believe that day is dead. Now career is (as it should be) the skills that you have and continue to build. I've jumped around a fair amount and went from $35k, to $40k, to $47k and now $66k. Obviously it isn't all about the money, but each job came with different responsibilities and skill expansion. My ultimate goal is to be able to pay my bills and do the things I want to do. Or win the lottery

"Sooner or later, I’ll do something with myself and make my mark, but until then whatever I do is not a waste of time, it’s all building towards something." - Randal Graves - Clerks 2

N2IT

A lot of you are younger than I and quite frankly more successful, financially. No worries I am happy for all. Keep in mind my friends are in their 30's, so maybe the job hopping is the key in today's game.

I just noticed that the paydays finally hit for these folks after several years of experience at a notable company. One thing to note, not of these folks started on the help desk, they had more elevated roles at an early start. I on the other hand switched career paths 3 times before settling down, if you want to call it that.

Either way I just wanted to toss it out there. I like the discussions that take place and I agree one size doesn't fit all. That's why I brought up my friend who works projects as a developer. He has taken a different approach.

There really is no moral to this story, except that you don't have to hop to make big bucks.

That's just my observation.

***As far as retirement we are all dealt different hands. I have been paying into ROTH IRA and a 401K since I was 18. I plan to retire at 52 and will have no problems doing so. I also inherited some money on a few occasions which helped financially.

Good reads thanks for following up.

tkerber

@=N2IT


I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. I agree on the starting early part and the education and constantly bettering yourself. I have a lot of friends in IT and the ones who are the most successful are the ones who tinker with things at home, the ones who have servers in their basement and study occasionally on the weekends.

I have to disagree with you on the staying part, I've personally seen the exact opposite and to a negative effect. Back in the 60's, 70's, etc, it seemed to be unheard of when people quit jobs and moved somewhere else, my dad has been working for the same company for 43 years. Nowadays with stagnant wages, budget cuts, healthcare, and high competition I really don't see myself working for a single company for more than 5 years unless I find 'the one'.. Most of the people I know that have gotten pay raises and or moved up, have just migrated to different companies to do so.

Obviously this all depends on where you work and how motivated you are. But I've personally found it really hard to 'move up' and advance in companies and I feel like by the time I have waited long enough and worked hard enough to do so. I could have been working somewhere else making a lot more money and not having to try and prove myself every day. So far 'moving up and out has worked for me' and I don't mind it. Some may say I'm a job hopper, but the diversity is great and I'm very young and still trying to find out exactly what 'flavor' of IT I really want to focus on.

UnixGuy

Here's my take on this...

It's all about excellence. There is no rule of when or how to do it, it's all about excelling at what you do, understanding it, understanding the market (by reading forums for example, and talking to successful people).

It doesn't matter where/when/how you start. If your goal is excellence and perfection, then you will succeed. Staying for 10 yrs or 10 months in a company, doing a degree in CS from Stanford or a degree in Philosophy from Africa, it's all minor details. If you are a man who gets satisfaction from perfection and excellence, then you will be on the top in whatever you do.

You can spend your time thinking "I wish I did a fancy degree at Stanford like X person who is now a top architect in Google..". Or you can Observe what that person does and try to learn something from them and use it IN YOUR OWN journey.


My personal journey has been ridiculously hard, inconvenient, and success seemed impossible. Nevertheless, I always tried to be the BEST I could in whatever position I was at, and it paid off. It all made sense in the end,

tkerber

UNNECESSARY REMOVE QUOTED REPLY


Bravo!

I wanted to up vote you for that, but I forgot I'm not on reddit.

Cheers!

N2IT

Unix I get your point and retroactively thinking is not going to deliver any solutions. Each path is different I agree with that. I just have always thought staying somewhere for a long time was a complete waste when in fact, IN SOME situations it couldn't be more wrong. A lot of blanket statements are thrown around on this forum about hopping every 2 years etc and I just think that's one strategy but doesn't make it the best one for all people.

I do politely disagree though however that if you are youngster starting off and land a CS degree from Stanford you have a much better shot of being successful throughout your career than someone who gets a late start with no degree.

There will always be exceptions but I choose not to manage my life based off of those.

UnixGuy

@N2IT:

Staying 2 yrs or 20 yrs, it's an irrelevant detail in my opinion. You need to pursue excellence, if staying 20 yrs in a company gives you that, then good. Otherwise, you will 'naturally' progress somewhere else. If you are a man who pursue excellence, then you will know what to do, you will know that there are no rules such as 'I should stay here for an x amount of time...'.


And No. I have a friend with a PhD from MIT. He did undergrad with me (in a university in the Middle East, one you haven't heard of, but I can tell you that IT IS a damn tough Uni to graduate from...it's still a no name uni in the US).

He went to do PhD in MIT, and he did amazing things. He moved from Microsoft to SpaceX. He is a software developer. He did well for himself.

I only have Bachelors degree, I make more money than him, I traveled to more countries than him. I have more 'technical' experience than him. He asks me for career advice, life advice, and even chicks advice.

All I'm trying to say is, yes I didn't have the opportunity he had, but I do have the willpower. Opportunity or not, I will make it. No one can stop me.


If I decide to change careers at the age of 50, guess what will happen? I will excel, I will become an expert, and I will make it. And that's 100% guaranteed, no whats or ifs. Ask anyone who knew me in school/uni/work, they will tell you that. Can I afford a degree from Stanford? Maybe. Will I go to Standford? Maybe. Is it what it takes to make me succeed? No, it's my willpower and nothing else. It's not age, not an overpriced degree, nothing. It's just my willpower, determination, and continuous pursuit of excellence. If I decide to become a carpenter tomorrow, I will do what it takes to become an damn excellent carpenter that my customer will get a(....buzz) on from seeing my work, if you know what I mean.

N2IT

I know what you mean.

your determination is impressive. I wish I had a little of it.

the_Grinch

I tend to think that a large part of it is timing. I mean look at the writer of Harry Potter, there have been several Harry Potter like characters who never made it as big (a book I read said there were about 7 almost exact Harry Potters). Obviously, she is a talented writer and I'm not taking that away from her, but a large part of it was her timing. We see this in technology all the time. Products released before their time that go on to die a horrible death only to be picked up a few years later to become hits. Careers truly are no different, your timing is always a major factor.

daviddws

I would have to say that when I worked in Silicon Valley for 10 years, most people did not stay at a company for more than 3 years. In fact job hoping is expected, and usually helps increase pay at each hop. Silicon Valley may be unique compared to the rest of the country, and from what I've seen people work very hard and fast, or at least they are expected to.

LinuxNerd

Long term loyalty to a company is a joke UNLESS they are paying you top, top dollar. "They have to pay $$$,$$$ if they want me to stay."

UnixGuy

Long term loyalty is not a 'joke'. Listen to those with real world experience like N2IT and the rest of the people on this forum, you might learn something.