Finding smaller/startup companies for IT employment

loss4words

Hey guys,

What are the best resources or how would you go about looking for a smaller/startup company to find a job?

I'm currently employed at a big corporation. There are two issues: very little room for promotional opportunities and being limited to what you can do because you work at a large organization. I've gained new skills through experience, practice and studying for certifications and am at the point where I feel my employer is really not using my skills the best of my ability. My manager is great but unfortunately there's nothing that he can do. I feel like my career is going nowhere and I've been stuck doing helpdesk/desktop support for the past 6 years. I am tired of it and want to move on.

So I started thinking about leaving and looking for a smaller company to work with. I feel like if I work with a smaller start-up company I would be able to learn a lot and use my skills better. I'm not sure if that would equate to more money but I guess that depends on the company. What do you guys think? Where should I start? I also thought about getting a second job after 5PM but I'm not sure if that's an option.

Justin-

What are your career goals? Systems admin? Network admin?

With 6 years experience in help desk, it should not be hard to find another job for a different company. It just depends what you're looking to specialize in.

Sure, certifications can help and if you're going into networking, you should take the CCNA.

You could work another job at 5pm but is that what you really want to do? Or do you want to stay focused in one job?

Vask3n

loss4words wrote: »

I'm currently employed at a big corporation. There are two issues: very little room for promotional opportunities and being limited to what you can do because you work at a large organization.

Sounds to me like you are at the wrong "Big company." If you have been doing help desk for 6 years you should look to move on either way, to a startup or not.

I specifically prefer large companies over startups. I just find it funny to see startups of 5 web developers where one of them calls themselves a CEO (lol), and when all is said and done at the end of the day everyone in the team has to do the same work because of how little people there are.

What I like about large companies is the ability to network, get a large amount of references, and having ample vacation and sick time.

Success101

loss4words wrote: »

Hey guys,

What are the best resources or how would you go about looking for a smaller/startup company to find a job?

I'm currently employed at a big corporation. There are two issues: very little room for promotional opportunities and being limited to what you can do because you work at a large organization. I've gained new skills through experience, practice and studying for certifications and am at the point where I feel my employer is really not using my skills the best of my ability. My manager is great but unfortunately there's nothing that he can do. I feel like my career is going nowhere and I've been stuck doing helpdesk/desktop support for the past 6 years. I am tired of it and want to move on.

So I started thinking about leaving and looking for a smaller company to work with. I feel like if I work with a smaller start-up company I would be able to learn a lot and use my skills better. I'm not sure if that would equate to more money but I guess that depends on the company. What do you guys think? Where should I start? I also thought about getting a second job after 5PM but I'm not sure if that's an option.

I have no idea how you lasted six years in help desk. After six months I was about to choke someone. I would suggest you start looking elsewhere...a small business would be ideal because of the things you could possibility learn. Depending on the environment. This is exactly what I did and it's paying off. The pay isn't *omg* but the things I'm learning will help me reach that level of pay down the road. I wouldn't take a second job.

loss4words

Hi Justin,

Thank you My goal is to specialize in System Administration. I have experience with Active Directory and Group Policy, however most of what I know is practicing on a VM at home, or doing basic tasks at work. I live in NYC where I don't think there should be a problem to find something but I guess I just don't know where to look or where to start. I think if I leave my current job I would work only one job, but if I stay I can do two jobs since my current position isn't demanding.

loss4words

Thanks guys! I know it's time to move on. I'm so unhappy where I am. People are nice and everyone gets along but I'm basically bored at my job because I'm not improving or learning. I have people at my job who have been doing the same thing for 10+ years and I just can't do that. I think they're there because they're comfortable and I'd say the salary is a little above average so they stay.

tprice5

AngelList is where the world meets startups. Investors: invest in early-stage startups. Startups: find team members, angel investors and venture capital.

Success101

loss4words wrote: »

Thanks guys! I know it's time to move on. I'm so unhappy where I am. People are nice and everyone gets along but I'm basically bored at my job because I'm not improving or learning. I have people at my job who have been doing the same thing for 10+ years and I just can't do that. I think they're there because they're comfortable and I'd say the salary is a little above average so they stay.

I understand completely. It's hard to come to work everyday and do the same thing each day without learning anything. There's always people who get comfortable and end up staying in place. That's why they will remain average.

I'd advise you to use any downtime to study and work on certs. If you want a 2nd job, go for it. Everyone's situation is different.

Asif Dasl

@loss4words - I think you are probably a small fish in a big pond, and now you want to be a big fish in a small pond. I would look out for jobs with Microsoft and/or VMware partners - MSPs basically. Just be careful you don't go with too small a company where there are pressures to keep things afloat.

Do your research, there are different levels of partners - VMware for instance list the number of VCP's and VCAP's per partner so you can focus on the bigger of "small companies" if that is what you are aiming for. Maybe later you will want to be a big fish in a big pond, who knows. There are pros and cons of both big and small ponds.

Good luck!

tkerber

I can honestly say that working for a small company, is in most cases a lot worse for growth opportunities than working for a large company. In fact I'm currently leaving a smaller MSP to go work for a large fortune 500 tech company. Also the diverse experience and wearing hats working for a smaller company may be very attractive, but in a lot of cases the pay and benefits are not and they cannot even compete with large companies in that sense because they don't have the budget.

I actually had the opportunity to work for a small start up MSP once. I talked to the guy on the phone and he told me what he was looking for and it seemed interesting. I told him my salary requirements and he couldn't even get close... Then he told me that he also didn't have any health insurance plan and I would have to get my own. The conversation was basically over at that point.

Point is, I would stay away from mom and pop shops. The money is usually bad, the benefits sometimes don't exist, and the stress is terrible.

Vask3n

tkerber wrote: »

I actually had the opportunity to work for a small start up MSP once. I talked to the guy on the phone and he told me what he was looking for and it seemed interesting. I told him my salary requirements and he couldn't even get close... Then he told me that he also didn't have any health insurance plan and I would have to get my own. The conversation was basically over at that point.

Point is, I would stay away from mom and pop shops. The money is usually bad, the benefits sometimes don't exist, and the stress is terrible.

This is excellent and relevant advice and is what I was alluding to in my earlier post above.

TerminalB

I worked for a startup some years ago and will never make the same mistake again. Like some others have sai, unless you like constant pressure and someone always looking over your shoulder (sometimes literally) then I would reconsider.

Khaos1911

I learned alot about what I wanted out of my career in IT by working/interning at a small start up years ago. I don't won't to do all the damn work, I don't want to be the jack of all trades, I don't like small salaries, I don't like limited growth opportunities, I despised not having any sort of training budget, and I didn't like being the go to guy for every single IT fantasy of some manager. I love NOT being THE helpdesk!...You know what's awesome? Not being a rookie to the IT world! Boy, those were some sucky days.

6502

Small companies tend not to invest in IT, instead they figure the IT guy will weave some magic to keep the infrastructure running another day. This eventually will catch up to you. I've been there when it finally breaks and it's not a happy place to be. You also have less personal networking options when looking for new jobs. Networking among colleagues is very important for your career.

Large companies you might find less room for growth. I know when I worked for Sears in the late 90s, I had no growth opportunities and was paid $10 an hour even though I was doing support for Sun Solaris on call across the US along with my job running NT, help desk etc. However I did meet people and it furthered my career when I left Sears.

Personally after doing both large companies and small, I'm looking to get back into the large companies. I miss having not only the networking opportunities, but being able to talk with others who understand the technology instead of being a lone gun.

Alexsmith

I work with a small mom and pop type of company now...I'd say stay away and look for a medium or large company. I find small companies have worse benefits (if they have them at all), less pay and more shoulder riding.

Applying back to larger companies myself now.

shodown

I own a small shop and yes its lean and mean. I have a few full time employee's and some contractors. Feel free to ask me some questions.


Now with that said.


1. My salaries are much higher than you will see at a corporate shop, due to lower overhead. My benefits aren't there yet, its a long process.

2. Its a constant grind. We get a lot of short term projects 1 month- 4 month. So I usually use contractors for those, so they know they are in and out and its no hard feelings when the project is over.

3. Why does a small shop with a few people and one of the tech guys calls himself the CEO? You need to speak with business leaders when you are speaking about your services, you are also the sole decision maker, so when you are talking to other people even if you are still doing tech work they know the buck stops with you. Can any of the people on this board go and buy 50K in equipment without getting an approval? I know I can if I feel like it.

4. You wanna talk about learn a lot fast, brought someone on to do a voice project, UCS work came up, I asked them if they wanted to do the project. I bought them INE workbooks, DC videos and about 500 dollars in tokens. There only obligation to me was to finish the project.

Overall This is a different experience, and I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, but if you can find a company who really understands what its like to be a small shop and they haven't made silly mistakes (buying office space, not using cloud apps, hiring there friends) you can have a great time at a small shop. Be prepared to work your ass off, but its much more rewarding.

JustFred

Everything said here is true. The part about the 5 men team where one of the guys calls himself the CEO had me rolling over the floor. Funny because its true.

Asif Dasl

JustFred wrote: »

Everything said here is true. The part about the 5 men team where one of the guys calls himself the CEO had me rolling over the floor. Funny because its true.

I can bet you that CEO is laughing all the way to the bank though, because he can control his taxes better than an employee can. Read a couple of tax books and you'll soon find out that employees pay the most taxes and are limited on how much they can save in to their pensions. CEO's/Business owners whatever you want to call them are usually unlimited in how much they can save in to their pensions. Just because a business is small doesn't mean the owner has small plans - just something to think about.

Vask3n

Asif Dasl wrote: »

I can bet you that CEO is laughing all the way to the bank though, because he can control his taxes better than an employee can. Read a couple of tax books and you'll soon find out that employees pay the most taxes and are limited on how much they can save in to their pensions. CEO's/Business owners whatever you want to call them are usually unlimited in how much they can save in to their pensions. Just because a business is small doesn't mean the owner has small plans - just something to think about.

What I was implying in the post that JustFred is referring to it is that the CEO in that case is CEO in name only.

It's kind of like playing dungeons and dragons. You get together 5 guys you went to college with and because you all know jquery and angularJS everyone is a "Software engineer" (lol).

pinkydapimp

If you can time it right, working for a startup could be very profitable if they go public and you get stock options.

Asif Dasl

Vask3n wrote: »

What I was implying in the post that JustFred is referring to it is that the CEO in that case is CEO in name only.

Maybe in name only work-wise but for tax purposes he could be the owner which is a more powerful position to be in even with all other things being equal. That was just the point I was trying to make.

Vask3n

Asif Dasl wrote: »

Maybe in name only work-wise but for tax purposes he could be the owner which is a more powerful position to be in even with all other things being equal. That was just the point I was trying to make.

Good point, from a tax perspective there could definitely be a discrepancy between the "CEO" and the workers when it comes time to file taxes or build up retirement plans.

I guess I am just jaded from seeing dime-a-dozen startups of college kids who jump into this industry after learning something like Web Development which in my opinion is a low-hanging fruit in the IT industry

tprice5

Vask3n wrote: »

after learning something like Web Development which in my opinion is a low-hanging fruit in the IT industry

I think this is a pretty antiquated mindset. Web development is essentially software engineering these days. It might not be as glamorous as other positions but the level of difficulty required to make a GOOD site is definitely up there. Referring to actually writing it, not downloading a template.

Vask3n

tprice5 wrote: »

Web development is essentially software engineering these days. It might not be as glamorous as other position.

The problem is that it's OVER glamorized, not under glamorized.

There's a million and one different frameworks out there like Bootstrap, Code, and all the javascript libraries that have effectively rolled out the red carpet for so-called "web developers" who are basically implementing and tweaking libraries that others have written. Everything is an API or a wrapper around functions that have already been written by others.

While you can say the same about non-web programming, I feel the barrier of entry into web development is generally lower than other programming which makes it that much more easy to find any arbitrary number of web developers at any time, and if you can't find one you can roll your own site with X number of available templates or plugins.

Yes, it is technically "software engineering" but its so UBIQUITOUS that you don't need to look hard or work hard to pump out a site that looks like it was created by an artist.

Burn me at the stake but I regard web design and "HCI" (human computer interaction) fields as being pseudo-IT disciplines because it's so trivial to produce sites nowadays.