Is a degree really required to climb the ladder?

jonwinterburn

Hi all.

Here's a question for you. I have 15 years' experience in IT, with several in InfoSec. I hold SSCP and am studying for CISSP, and I currently work as an InfoSec analyst, mid-level. I aim to study for CISA once I have CISSP.

However, I have no degree at all (my poor upbringing). At my current level, that's not an issue. Skills and certs are more valuable to me right now. But what about in the next 5-6 years? I want to progress to director level, and am rapidly getting the impression that the lack of a BSc or MSc in Comp Sci or similar will prevent me from getting into a directorship role - despite my experience, hard work and vendor certs.

As I have a family to support, I cannot afford to study for a degree part time. Studying online for a BSc from Penn State (highly reputed) is around $66k. Even a BSc from the Open University in my home country (UK) is £15k.

So - is it worth getting into debt and dedicating all my spare time for 6 years into getting a BSc, then further years & money to get MSc? Will I hit the glass ceiling in career advancement without a degree?

Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks,

Jon

CyberfiSecurity

Hi Jon,

Since you live in the United Kingdom, which I cannot speak for the private and public sectors in term of college require up there. However, in the United States is a must to have a college degree because new generation graduating from colleges/universities yearly. Therefore, it is a big competition and most of the time a Bachelor degree is a minimum requirement. Certain company requires average 10 to 15 years to compensate for a college degree. College degree does not have to be expensive if you do you research correctly. I would recommend you to visit degreeinfo.com, and forum dedicated for distance learning folks. Have you checked out certain European colleges/universities offer FREE tuiton and/or little fee for European Union citizens?

EngRob

Yes and no

I grew up in the UK and moved over to the US as an adult. I did some University in UK but didn't complete my whole bachelors. I was able to get to a certain level by skills and experience alone but capped out at management. I knew I wouldn't be able to get any higher without getting a degree so i'm currently taking care of that with WGU.

In the UK I always felt it was even more required. My experience is that it's easier to be overlooked in the US but even then there have been positions that I was not considered for because of no degree.

jonwinterburn

Thanks for your quick responses. That's given me something to think about.

Plantwiz

Formal Education is typically a good starting point.

That said, networking (via people) is usually what ends up being the most important thing, but why not stack the cards in your favor and invest in oneself? If you have the means (and time) get a degree. Nothing says that the degree must be earned in a year or two, if it takes you ten, so be it.

Jon_Cisco

jonwinterburn wrote: »

As I have a family to support, I cannot afford to study for a degree part time. Studying online for a BSc from Penn State (highly reputed) is around $66k. Even a BSc from the Open University in my home country (UK) is £15k.

Keep in mind at this point in your career your not as concerned with (highly reputed) universities. Your work experience is going to be a lot more important. You are trying to satisfy the minimum requirements to be considered for the higher positions.

Good Luck!

CyberfiSecurity

You should check out the University of London External Program offers Bachelor of Science in Information Systems and Management. The total for the entire program is

£ 4,006.

URL:

Information Systems and Management (BSc) | University of London International Programmes

I assume the program is offering through The London School of Economic and Political Science.

daviddws

jonwinterburn wrote: »

I want to progress to director level, and am rapidly getting the impression that the lack of a BSc or MSc in Comp Sci or similar will prevent me from getting into a directorship role - despite my experience, hard work and vendor certs.

You are correct sir! When the time comes you will most likely compete with someone for a higher level position, except they will have a Masters. What do you think the hiring manager will do? Better to prepare now so there are no regrets.

5502george

Everyone making over 80k in my area (including myself) have at the minimum a BS if not MS.

networker050184

I think that would be a terribly hard thing to say with certainty 5502george. Did you do a poll of salaries and education to make sure everyone met that criteria?

As far as the question at hand, no a degree is not absolutely needed. It will certainly help though so no point in not getting one if you want to move into senior management.

DonDeal

networker050184 wrote: »

I think that would be a terribly hard thing to say with certainty 5502george. Did you do a poll of salaries and education to make sure everyone met that criteria?

As far as the question at hand, no a degree is not absolutely needed. It will certainly help though so no point in not getting one if you want to move into senior management.

With The American Community Survey, it's easy to determine an area's educational attainment down to the zip code.

5502george

networker050184 wrote: »

I think that would be a terribly hard thing to say with certainty 5502george. Did you do a poll of salaries and education to make sure everyone met that criteria?

As far as the question at hand, no a degree is not absolutely needed. It will certainly help though so no point in not getting one if you want to move into senior management.

I work with a very tight group of people; we know all of each other’s business lol (Not always in a good way). I am just responding from my small perspective on where I work. It’s definitely not a reflection of the overall IT community, nor did I ever say it was.

You do not need a degree to be in senior management, but you will be raising your probability in achieving that status by obtaining a degree.

chronos42

So what are the thoughts on having a BBA instead of a BS? I have a degree, but not an technology-related degree (only minored in IS). Would that be a hindrance going forward? Should I look at MS eventually?

anoeljr

chronos42 wrote: »

So what are the thoughts on having a BBA instead of a BS? I have a degree, but not an technology-related degree (only minored in IS). Would that be a hindrance going forward? Should I look at MS eventually?

I don't think your BBA will hinder you at all. I know many senior people in IT that have degrees in Horticulture, Communications, History, Industrial Management, etc. I actually think having degree outside of technology is an asset as it gives you a different perspective on things.

bobloblaw

chronos - What do you want to do? A lot of times just having any degree will get past HR as long as you have the requisite certs/experience. I can't tell you how many times I'll see a job listing where I have all the certs/experience, and will be disqualified as soon as I see "This job requires a degree."

fredrikjj

jonwinterburn wrote: »

So - is it worth getting into debt and dedicating all my spare time for 6 years into getting a BSc, then further years & money to get MSc?

Probably not because the opportunity cost is insane. It's not 66k. It's 66k + whatever else you could make in the time you are now spending studying. For example you could spend all those years becoming a real expert in something, or get a part time job, learn an instrument, play with your kids. I totally see the point of degrees for entry level positions as a mechanism to narrow down the field, but it's frankly asinine to require them for positions where what you have actually done should be the deciding factor, not if you boozed your way through a very simple BS 20 years ago.

nuovoIT

Honestly, as stated your concern shouldn't be a premier school or even one that has a large price tag. I got my bachelors from a city college, but I have decided to do an online certificate program at UMass Lowell. I would strongly recommend looking into the online programs offered by UMass Lowell. You can earn an associates, bachelors, masters, certificates...It's not overpriced and you can set the pace. Figure if you have 60 credits and an associates and are pursuing your bachelors degree, you shouldn't have much to worry about. People take 10 years to finish sometimes. If I were you, go for getting 60 credits quickly, then a slower pace for the complete 4 years. As long as you have a college degree.

5502george

fredrikjj wrote: »

Probably not because the opportunity cost is insane. It's not 66k. It's 66k + whatever else you could make in the time you are now spending studying. For example you could spend all those years becoming a real expert in something, or get a part time job, learn an instrument, play with your kids. I totally see the point of degrees for entry level positions as a mechanism to narrow down the field, but it's frankly asinine to require them for positions where what you have actually done should be the deciding factor, not if you boozed your way through a very simple BS 20 years ago.

Well that’s a whole new ball game. If you are factoring in opportunity cost I would add to the fact that being a senior manager at “ANY” level would require a great deal of your time and energy. I know a lot of senior managers and “Most” of them complain all day about the bull they have to put up with and how much they would love to go back to being a regular Joe.

All in all it is your life, your career. Just know that the idea of being a leader is prestigious, but once in the position you actually have to lead, which by my measure of fun is A ZERO!

jdancer

Another resource for accredited degrees is geteducated.com

Here in the US, you can get college credit by testing out by taking CLEP or taking the school's "credit by demonstrated competency" exam. It seems your professional background will allow you to test out for a lot of college courses. Remember, even a non-related IT degree is still a degree.

Cheebahawk

fredrikjj wrote: »

Probably not because the opportunity cost is insane. It's not 66k. It's 66k + whatever else you could make in the time you are now spending studying. For example you could spend all those years becoming a real expert in something, or get a part time job, learn an instrument, play with your kids. I totally see the point of degrees for entry level positions as a mechanism to narrow down the field, but it's frankly asinine to require them for positions where what you have actually done should be the deciding factor, not if you boozed your way through a very simple BS 20 years ago.

I don't think I could've put it much better.