Stuck between the two. Lenovo or Macbook pro?

OfWolfAndMan

So this is my situation: I will be upgrading my laptop in the near future (A measly i3 1.4ghz with 4 gb RAM, 128 SSD). It has done me somewhat well, but can't take too much of a load.

So I was first thinking about buying a lenovo laptop because I was thinking either virtualizing a linux distro inside of Windows and I have heard some good things about plug and play compatibility with Linux and Lenovo. However, I also enjoy the simple setup of the MAC OS and I have heard good things about virtualzing windows inside of fusion. There are a couple things I am not clear on in regards to MAC. I use GNS3, Visio, and have other various programs including Endnote for my research articles (And for citations), OpenVPN so I can remote back home if I wanted to work in my lab, and various other pieces of software I'm not clear on if MAC has either an alternative, or if it's better just to run it in a Windows VM.

Also, I have a couple external hard drives as well and have heard a few things about MAC not being able to recognize an HDD formatted as NTFS. My wife is a MAC person and I've gotten a feel for the layout, but just not sure about software support and the like. Obviously, this laptop will be to do my labbing. No gaming.

N2IT

That's a tough one. Both.

MAC is FAT32

shodown

I do run openVPN on my mac and run GNS3 on my mac. I do run Visio on a windows 8 VM and a windows 7 VM when I need them.


Yes the mac has some trouble understanding drive formats, but I just open those files in my VM when needed.

DoubleNNs

Isn't it Mac, not MAC?

I bought a Lenovo T440s earlier this summer. Ended up returning the 1st one within a day because it was completely defective. Then returned the 2nd one after trying to like it for 3 weeks - in the end I just couldn't put up w/ the hardware.

I recommend the Macbook.

There's no Visio on OS X, but there's a few alternatives you could try - both free and paid for. Virtualbox/GNS3 works perfectly straight out-the-box. You can get OS X to read NTFS. You can even get it to write to NTFS - but i'ts incredibly buggy and not recommended. Best to format your external hard drives to exFAT.

RouteMyPacket

I switched to a Mac for work about 1.5yrs ago now and I will NEVER switch back. This Macbook Pro (Retina) is the best laptop I have ever owned and there is nothing I cannot do with it. I run Paralells for my VM's, don't care for Fusion.

The only thing I need my Win7 VM for is Visio, the rest runs locally.

OfWolfAndMan

Ok if I run a vm for Windows would I be better off running Windows 7 or 8? Heard mixed things with 8 and never had too many problems with 7

N2IT

DoubleNNs wrote: »

Isn't it Mac, not MAC?

Petty and Bizarre

DoubleNNs wrote: »

I bought a Lenovo T440s earlier this summer. Ended up returning the 1st one within a day because it was completely defective. Then returned the 2nd one after trying to like it for 3 weeks - in the end I just couldn't put up w/ the hardware.

Who dropped the image on the device? Did you buy it stock with bloatware?

DoubleNNs wrote: »

There's no Visio on OS X, but there's a few alternatives you could try - both free and paid for. Virtualbox/GNS3 works perfectly straight out-the-box. You can get OS X to read NTFS. You can even get it to write to NTFS - but i'ts incredibly buggy and not recommended. Best to format your external hard drives to exFAT.

Buggy is putting it nicely.

RouteMyPacket wrote: »

I switched to a Mac for work about 1.5yrs ago now and I will NEVER switch back. This Macbook Pro (Retina) is the best laptop I have ever owned and there is nothing I cannot do with it. I run Paralells for my VM's, don't care for Fusion.

The only thing I need my Win7 VM for is Visio, the rest runs locally.

Why run Visio when there are dozens of other modeling tools out there? It seems like a overkill to run another OS for one application.

yzT

At the end, it all depends on what OS are you most comfortable with during daily use.

I have never bought a laptop, but when I have the need to buy one, likely I'm going to buy a Mac. My PC runs Linux + Windows VM (Visio included).

SephStorm

There is no reason you can't run all of that in Windows. Save the money and spend it on upgrades like a 250gb ssd, 8gb ram, and if you're feeling legit a vmware license.

OfWolfAndMan

Unfortunately, the RAM is not upgradable. The processing power simply is not enough for what I am using it for. It doesn't fare running certain things well. I.E I run titanium inside Virtualbox (a virtual Nexus 7k) and between that and running it inside GNS3 with a couple other routers, or even a potential additional N7K or Juniper router is difficult. Not as much problem running multiple routers as my idle PC value is a good one.

In addition, this probably will be the computer I learn Windows server 2012 on as well.

Also, how does something like a Centos VM fare in the MBP? I will be taking Linux+ for school, so that's why I'll need at least one Linux VM. Routemypacket, I'll look into Parallels as I've heard mixed things about Fusion.

DoubleNNs

I remember having some problems w/ Gnome 3 running in virtualbox back when CentOS 1st made the switch to it. Something about the 3D acceleration. Don't think you'd have much problem now tho - but I don't have a Macbook anymore to test.

N2IT wrote: »

Who dropped the image on the device? Did you buy it stock with bloatware?

I reformatted and installed Linux. No bloatware. But it was the actual hardware on the T440S that I had a problem w/. Quality Control on their keyboards was poor, the trackpad is horrible, the laptop weight distribution is off and it leans to the left on a flat surface, and the screen is absolutely atrocious (the LG panel at least). Which was unfortunate, because otherwise, the computer had some amazing features. But it was only a good machine (to me) on paper.

Actually, the Win 7 install on the T440s was good. Very little added software, and what was added seemed useful instead of intrusive.

SephStorm

OfWolfAndMan wrote: »

Unfortunately, the RAM is not upgradable. The processing power simply is not enough for what I am using it for. It doesn't fare running certain things well. I.E I run titanium inside Virtualbox (a virtual Nexus 7k) and between that and running it inside GNS3 with a couple other routers, or even a potential additional N7K or Juniper router is difficult. Not as much problem running multiple routers as my idle PC value is a good one.

In addition, this probably will be the computer I learn Windows server 2012 on as well.

I thought you were looking at a new laptop? I can tell you I can run GNS3, kali, metasploitable, windows xp and probably 2008 on this laptop that has a tri-core laptop and 8gb ram.

NotHackingYou

I have the retina MBP and I love it.

N2IT

DoubleNNs wrote: »

I remember having some problems w/ Gnome 3 running in virtualbox back when CentOS 1st made the switch to it. Something about the 3D acceleration. Don't think you'd have much problem now tho - but I don't have a Macbook anymore to test.


I reformatted and installed Linux. No bloatware. But it was the actual hardware on the T440S that I had a problem w/. Quality Control on their keyboards was poor, the trackpad is horrible, the laptop weight distribution is off and it leans to the left on a flat surface, and the screen is absolutely atrocious (the LG panel at least). Which was unfortunate, because otherwise, the computer had some amazing features. But it was only a good machine (to me) on paper.

Actually, the Win 7 install on the T440s was good. Very little added software, and what was added seemed useful instead of intrusive.

I was curious because my work machine is a 430. It's had driver issues (the service that switches back and forth from LAN to Wireless seems to be problematic). I forced the service to stay in Wireless now since we run a gigabit. I also had a problem with it booting up to the start screen. Not impressed with the 430, but I do like the slim line Lenovo's (tablet laptops)

dales

I made that same decision just over a year ago. I was looking around for a light but powerful laptop as I'm a consultant so the lighter my backpack the better. I'm also a big lenovo fan (or rather IBM thinkpad as was). For me when I was looking round there wasn't any other laptops that was as thin and light and long lasting as the Mac Air I ended up getting.

I've never been an apple fan and was a little worried that the OS would be a bit inflexible but I've not looked back since making the switch. I've got fusion running a windows 8 VM with office and visio on as office 2011 for Mac stinks the big one but thats not apples fault.As long as apple keep on making the form factor then I'm continue to buy them when needed. Yes its quite pricy but its super quick the battery lasts a full working day which is handy when a client gets you working in the basement on a broken chair with not a power socket in site.

JoJoCal19

I use a MBP (early 2011) and it's amazing. I can't wait to get a rMBP. But I do have a dedicated Wintel laptop for Kali/pentesting lab, other VMs, Vizio and the rest of MS Office (Office 2011 Mac is meh), and currency trading software. I say if you want the best hardware and Windows, buy a MBP and slap Bootcamp on it, set it to boot straight into Windows and never touch Mac OSX.

networker050184

Macs are nice, but I've never been able to justify spending the cash on one. I have a Lenovo running Mint and it works great for me.

DoubleNNs

I find that currently, laptops from other vendors actually cost more than Apple's offerings if you get similar spec. A few years ago I would have argued against spending the cash on Apple laptops, but not anymore.

chrisone

Just decide on which hardware and shell you like best. Both runs windows perfectly fine and one has OSX on it. Meaning if you get the macbook you wont be limited to OSX, you can dual boot to windows 7 , 8 , 9, 10, whatever....

SephStorm

I disagree, a new MBP with +2.5ghz multi core proc, 8/16 gb ram, 1TB hdd will cost you 1299 minimum direct from apple. I can find a a refurb that meets those specs for 700. looks like its 1000 new.

And with the right hardware planning you can run OSX on non- mac hardware. One thing to consider is that mac has a lot of proprietary hardware. don''t know if that extends to macbooks. Do you want to risk having to track down and purchase a mac charger or mac specific support?

YFZblu

SephStorm wrote: »

I disagree, a new MBP with +2.5ghz multi core proc, 8/16 gb ram, 1TB hdd will cost you 1299 minimum direct from apple. I can find a a refurb that meets those specs for 700. looks like its 1000 new.

None of what you said is incorrect. Still, it completely ignores perceived user experience and non-technical human behavior. I own an upgraded Macbook Air, and it's legitimately the best computer I've ever owned.

Am I going to try and convince everyone to get one, like some gadget-lusted fanboy? No.
Technically speaking, are there higher-performing computers on the market for less? Probably.
Do I care? No, because I currently have the best computer I've personally ever owned. That's the point, right?

SephStorm wrote: »

Do you want to risk having to track down and purchase a mac charger or mac specific support?

This feels like a really outdated argument to make.

dales

I would have agreed with you a few years ago but no laptops are really designed to be repaired anymore over and above replacing the hard drive and finding a charger after they've been discontinued will result in a trip to ebay to find a cheap knockoff, luckily mac chargers have been fairly static in design for the last 3-4 years which is really the sensible life expectancy/usefulness of a laptop. But certainly finding accessories for any laptop is troublesome after a couple of years.

I'm not an Apple fanatic as I would have preferred a windows laptop but the battery life was critical for me when choosing and there just was nothing like it at the time.

OfWolfAndMan

I disagree, a new MBP with +2.5ghz multi core proc, 8/16 gb ram, 1TB hdd will cost you 1299 minimum direct from apple. I can find a a refurb that meets those specs for 700. looks like its 1000 new.

I refuse to buy refurb. I might buy used, but opt me out of refurb.

Do you want to risk having to track down and purchase a mac charger or mac specific support?

My last laptop's (A Lenovo, mind you) HDD had a whiny sound on the HDD after about 6 months, but it also was falling apart (one of the hinges came loose and started cracking the shell open). I also lost the charger to it. Guess what? No luck finding a charger. It hadn't been out for maybe a couple of years. I will be taking a necessary risk regardless whether it be the possibility of it being stolen, the hard drive being defective on delivery, etc. These kinds of things are trivial but sometimes, inevitable.

Even though my last experience wasn't what I expected from Lenovo, I also looked into my laptop awhile after I had it and realized there's some issues people tend to have after that 6-8 month mark. Every manufacturer has its good and bad models. I'm not going to judge based on just this.

I say if you want the best hardware and Windows, buy a MBP and slap Bootcamp on it, set it to boot straight into Windows and never touch Mac OSX.

I've heard about this, but been told it can go haywire if you don't install it appropriately. That's from an "average" user though .

I'm still leaning towards the Macbook Pro Retina as it has the Quad-core, 16 GB RAM, and SSD (It'll be some saving up as this model is $2000). However, has anyone had experience with the Lenovo Yoga series?

jem7sk

Sounds to me like you have a good enough setup.. maybe you just need to reimage your current laptop? I like MacBooks and I like PCs, if I could have both I would but I spend most of my time on PCs so that would be my vote. I have a new Toshiba Satellite that has an I3 with 6GB Ram running Windows 8.1 and I love it. Best computer I have ever owned... much better IMO than my work MacBook Pro. Cost me less than $400 new

rsutton

I bought a Lenovo X1 Carbon last year and dual boot Win7/Kali and it more than meets my needs. BTW if you are going to be doing any packet sniffing you should consider dual booting Linux instead of virtualizing - there are issues capturing packets using a virtual NIC.

NotHackingYou

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

I use a MBP (early 2011) and it's amazing. I can't wait to get a rMBP. But I do have a dedicated Wintel laptop for Kali/pentesting lab, other VMs, Vizio and the rest of MS Office (Office 2011 Mac is meh), and currency trading software. I say if you want the best hardware and Windows, buy a MBP and slap Bootcamp on it, set it to boot straight into Windows and never touch Mac OSX.

I love this idea and it is what I planned to do with my rMBP. However, there's a problem - Windows wants to display 2880x1800 resolution which is great if you want max real estate, but not so great for viewing. You can set the DPI higher and make it usable on the laptop screen but Windows requires a logoff to change. For me, this is a show stopper because I float between external monitors and the laptop display and logging off and back on is impractical.

My 2011 15" MBP had the 1680x1050 screen and I had no problems at all with this type of setup. I tried this with both Windows 7 and 8.1 on my rMBP with the same result. If I change the resolution in Windows to 1920x1200 (where I run the rMBP screen in OSX and the res of my external monitors) then Windows is pretty fuzzy. The only resolution that doesn't look wrong (IMO) is 2880x1800, but then you can't read anything. FWIW, I run VMWare Fusion and booting my bootcamp partition as a VM works without issue and displays on 1920x1200 without any issue - it's just when you boot it directly. Maybe they have fixed this with newer bootcamp drivers, it's been a while since I tried. Now that OneNote is available for Mac, I barely use Windows at home.

Edit: This is still not a show stopper for me on the rMBP. I love the power of the machine (Quad core i7 w/hyper threading, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD) as compared to the light weight, slim profile and long battery life. The screen really is a world above the screen I've typically observed on PC laptops. I also really love that I can natively connect 3x external monitors at 1920x1200 (each!) AND run the laptop screen. With a lot of things I do it's easier for me to have visual studio on one monitor, SSMS on another, reference material/specs on another and whatever else on the laptop screen. This way I don't have to toggle between different windows to see what I want.

Mine is an October 2012 model and is still going strong. The motherboard was replaced in October 2013 for a display artifact issue. I purchased applecare after that. I'm on the original battery and it still offers great life, sometimes up to 7-8 hours.

OfWolfAndMan

Decided on the MBP Retina. Everything has worked great so far! Running a w7, server 2012, Centos and soon to be Kali VM in parallels. It's a little different from VMware, but I think I prefer that integrated feel. Got everything running on GNS3 aside from JunOS since I'm still working on patching qemu (or may just run it in Vbox). Everything I need for my school classes, my certs and everything else.

Specs: 2.2 I7 quad, 256 SSD, 16 GB RAM, with a claim of up to 8 hrs battery life. Gonna be keeping this one for a long while.

ninjaturtle

Good choice mate!! I've had mine for awhile, all I need is to upgrade the hard drive to an SSD. It's a solid machine!

tprice5

jem7sk wrote: »

I have a new Toshiba Satellite that has an I3 with 6GB Ram running Windows 8.1 and I love it. Best computer I have ever owned... much better IMO than my work MacBook Pro. Cost me less than $400 new

Solid price. The wife is looking for a laptop and I am going to push her towards this.

NotHackingYou

Congratulations, I hope you love it! Is this your first Mac?

OfWolfAndMan

I agree it is a solid machine! This is my first Mac. I was against the whole going Apple for a while (Or as I used to like to call it, the dark side), but the hardware is solid and the integration of many software features is now supported and I can learn bash right in OSX without having to run a VM (Which I've been learning piece by piece).