My employer wants to start paying for training/certs...

--chris--

But he wants something (contract or similar; how legally binding is not a concern of his) that makes the employee aware that by accepting the training / testing funds then leaving before a 12 months period is up they will be required to pay back the cost of the training and tests.

He said he knows actually enforcing this could be a nightmare, he just wants a signature and a gentlemens agreement type of thing.

Anyone have something like this drafted up or a copy of one they may have signed? The sooner I get this to him the sooner my training costs are covered

Hammer80

This sound fairly standard, a lot companies have a deal like this where you accept certification training paid by the company or get tuition reimbursement and if you leave within a specified period of time than you're on the hook for either 100%, 50%, or 25% of the cost. Usually you have to stay a year to be completely in the clear if you accept their money for any type of education, of course you have a choice here. There is an exception to this rule, when company requires the certification class as part of you having your job and you don't have a choice in the manner then you don't owe them anything. So pretty much if you have no choice then you're in the clear, if you have a choice then you're on the hook.

cyberguypr

Are you looking for an agreement sample motu proprio or did he ask you to? If the business wants to protect their interest, they should be the ones coming up with this. I'm assuming this is a tiny shop with no legal dept or a lawyer on speed dial, correct?

networker050184

That is something for HR to come up with. All the ones I have signed are pretty straight forward though. Leave before X date pay back Y amount. As your boss pointed out though I believe these are fairly unenforceable legal wise. At least not worth the time for most businesses.

--chris--

cyberguypr wrote: »

Are you looking for an agreement sample motu proprio or did he ask you to? If the business wants to protect their interest, they should be the ones coming up with this. I'm assuming this is a tiny shop with no legal dept or a lawyer on speed dial, correct?

Spot on. A dozen people total.

He asked me for help putting together a plan to pay people for training and certs, I figured someone here might have a sample agreement like you mentioned or point me in the right direction.

fredrikjj

I think it's a really bad idea because good training that benefits YOU is quite cheap. Books, some lab workbooks, maybe a subscription to something like INE. Taking a cert every 3 to 4 months isn't expensive either. Once you sign something like that, your manager will have an incentive to send you to (or offer) expensive things that isn't worth the money to "lock you in", like some CCNA course for $5,000. What do you do then? Will you have the uncomfortable conversation where you explain to him that you don't want to take the training offer because it puts you in a weird position if you want to leave? And it also gives them the opportunity to treat you worse since they know that you essentially have to pay to leave the company.

networker050184

I wouldn't get involved in writing legal contracts like this. Not your area of expertise and you don't want it coming back on you in the end.

colemic

I, the undersigned, agree that in order to have ABC Widget Manufacturing Company pay all necessary exam costs for XYZ certification/training, I will remain employed with ABC Widget Co. for 12 months following the conclusion of the exam/training. I understand that within 12 months of completion, if I terminate my employment of my own free will, or if I am terminated by the company for good cause, I will bear complete and full responsibility for reimbursing the Company all monies paid for said exam/training via payroll deduction, and will pay any remaining balance due within 10 days of termination/resignation, and any and all training materials will be transferred to the ABC Widget Company. I also understand that this agreement must be signed prior to the Company releasing funds to pay said training/certification, and is contingent upon my accepting the terms contained herein.

Name of Exam:
Date of Exam:
Date of Financial Obligation Release:

Employee Name:
Manager Name:
HR Representative Name:


Literally just made that up, will that suffice?

Hammer80

networker050184 wrote: »

I wouldn't get involved in writing legal contracts like this. Not your area of expertise and you don't want it coming back on you in the end.

This is 100% correct, do not get involved in writing up legal contracts, leave this to a professional like a Lawyer or an Accountant since both these professions have extensive knowledge of legal language and legal contracts.

Also majority of the times these are bad deals, I have co-worker that got my company to pay for a New Horizons A+ class that lasted 7 days live online for the cost of around $2500, he has yet to take the exam but he is on the hook to the company for one year. I kept on telling him just to get a $50 book and to find a computer to take a apart and put back together, did he listen NO.

bermovick

fredrikjj wrote: »

I think it's a really bad idea because good training that benefits YOU is quite cheap. Books, some lab workbooks, maybe a subscription to something like INE. Taking a cert every 3 to 4 months isn't expensive either. Once you sign something like that, your manager will have an incentive to send you to (or offer) expensive things that isn't worth the money to "lock you in", like some CCNA course for $5,000. What do you do then? Will you have the uncomfortable conversation where you explain to him that you don't want to take the training offer because it puts you in a weird position if you want to leave? And it also gives them the opportunity to treat you worse since they know that you essentially have to pay to leave the company.

This is true up to a point. My employer requires a 12-month agreement not to leave for anything that's like $5000 or requires some type of travel expenses a week long or more (like an on-site vmware class or something I guess). They're trying to get me to sign for the CCIE lab and I told them I'd rather pay for it myself than sign it for something so far less than what the agreement itself states.

tprice5

bermovick wrote: »

I told them I'd rather pay for it myself than sign it for something so far less than what the agreement itself states.

I don't get this.
Option 1: Pay for it yourself. No reimbursement.
Option 2: Employer pays for it. IF you leave, pay back employer.

Am I missing something here?

joelsfood

Whether you want to be on the hook for this is up to you. What you are looking for is a sample Promissory note for educational reimbursement (or something along those lines, promissory note is the key words though).

http://hr.southtexascollege.edu/forms/benefits/benefits_tuition_reimbursement_employees.pdf

SOmething like page 8 there, but you need sections on foregiveness (over 12 months) etc

Canopus

--chris-- wrote: »

He said he knows actually enforcing this could be a nightmare, he just wants a signature and a gentlemens agreement type of thing.

Anyone have something like this drafted up or a copy of one they may have signed? The sooner I get this to him the sooner my training costs are covered

I guess you aren't a lawyer (I don't mean that in a bad way...), so if I was you I wouldn't touch this task with a 40-foot pole.

Tell your boss you've been advised that this is something a lawyer should draft, not an employee with no legal experience.

If there was ever a dispute in the future between an employee and your employer, you could find yourself in court.

There's no such thing as a gentlemen's agreement in the world of business... Run away.

dave330i

fredrikjj wrote: »

I think it's a really bad idea because good training that benefits YOU is quite cheap. Books, some lab workbooks, maybe a subscription to something like INE. Taking a cert every 3 to 4 months isn't expensive either. Once you sign something like that, your manager will have an incentive to send you to (or offer) expensive things that isn't worth the money to "lock you in", like some CCNA course for $5,000. What do you do then? Will you have the uncomfortable conversation where you explain to him that you don't want to take the training offer because it puts you in a weird position if you want to leave? And it also gives them the opportunity to treat you worse since they know that you essentially have to pay to leave the company.

No. That's not how it works.

bermovick

tprice5 wrote: »

I don't get this.
Option 1: Pay for it yourself. No reimbursement.
Option 2: Employer pays for it. IF you leave, pay back employer.

Am I missing something here?

That I really don't want to HAVE to be there for another year

[edit]
I suppose I should give a little bit more: They want me to do the VCP class, so that'd be a year more or less starting approximately -now-. Plus they want to cover my lab exam(s), which would be a year starting sometime (hopefully) next spring. Plus assuming it takes 2-3 times to pass, I'm still footing the first lab or attempt or two, and the year starts when I (hopefully) pass sometime in the summer of '15.

kurosaki00

HR should work on that DOC for you.
I think it's very normal. They want the security that if they spend resources on you, their investment wont fly out of the window right away. The minimum, you will document your training for a new hire (if you decide to leave).

--chris--

tprice5 wrote: »

I don't get this.
Option 1: Pay for it yourself. No reimbursement.
Option 2: Employer pays for it. IF you leave, pay back employer.

Am I missing something here?

100% this. Far too much cynicism in this thread.

I agree it would be a mistake for anyone other than legal counsel to try and draft a binding contract, I think the point is being missed. Someone wants to pay for my (and others) training and cert costs. They want assurance that we understand that this is a benefit offered with the idea that you are going to stick around for a bit.

He already said he doesn't need or want this to be a binding contract. He just wants the expectations to be known.

@colemic, I think that will be a great starting point. Thanks.

certoi

Some companies like mine require you to be with them for 3 years after they pay for your courses. So you know what I did right?... pay for my own study materials and tests, especially if you are not looking to be there that long and seeking better opportunities.