Why can't you get a job in IT?

dubzer

I'm interested to know, people who've been struggling to get into IT...

How's been the process in getting a job?

I have a friend trying to get into IT for over half a year now with no success.

I've told him about the three pillars: education, experience, certs.

But, he's had no luck. He says there is high barrier to entry. I'm starting to think this isn't for him.

Would like to know what other problems people are facing themselves.

pinkydapimp

i mean, if hes trying to get in, he needs to educate himself and grab some certs. If his problem is getting interviews, he should work on his resume. If he is getting interviews and not hired, he should work on his interview skills.

The barriers aren't high, but he needs to work hard if he wants to get in, and stay in.

The fact that you are here and he isnt tells me maybe he isnt that motivated.

bermovick

It took me 8 months after getting my CCNA before I got my first job, simply because I only had 1 of the 3 pillars. The first job does have a fairly high barrier sometimes, as can some of the transitions into more senior roles.

SweenMachine

I feel very fortunate to have gotten into IT at a time when if you said "Computer? yeah I have one!" meant you got a help desk job...

Oh those silly Y2K years...


-scott

jamesleecoleman

I struggled to get my first full-time position in IT. Other stuff before was just part-time jobs but it built experience.

Studying abroad has really helped with getting my resume looked at. Sometimes you gotta do stuff that isn't IT related but where IT can be applied to. Also, working on the masters helped too with getting the resume looked at.

After I came back from over sea's, it took about 8 months before I got the position that I'm in and I enjoy it a lot. I don't have the CCNA, CISSP nor MSCA. It was tough but I made it and others will make it too.

Have your friend look for small ISP's or some sort of internship/work study program at the college or university. It doesn't hurt to volunteer to build experience.

Justin-

Yeah, if your friend can get some type of co-op/internship job at a post-secondary college or university, that would be the best way to get himself entered in the IT world. That's exactly what I'm doing. I start my first internship in January 2015, and it is for 4 months, pay is nice and it isn't a shitty help desk position, it's more on working with networks/servers, so I'm quite happy.

cyber_fan_monterey

I have worked a couple of years as telecoms engineer (radios and stuff) and switched my focus to IT 5 years ago. Now I am trying to land an IT Security job and after 9-10 unsuccessful interviews I started feeling down and unmotivated. Plus I don't understand why people don't seem to be interested in my CISSP that is supposed to be the best IT Sec cert.

SweenMachine

cyber_fan_monterey wrote: »

I have worked a couple of years as telecoms engineer (radios and stuff) and switched my focus to IT 5 years ago. Now I am trying to land an IT Security job and after 9-10 unsuccessful interviews I started feeling down and unmotivated. Plus I don't understand why people don't seem to be interested in my CISSP that is supposed to be the best IT Sec cert.

I'd venture to say it is one of those catch 22's where you have the cert but not working experience in security. Security is one of those fields where, although I am sure the certs matter, experience matters more..

-scott

SephStorm

cyber_fan_monterey wrote: »

I have worked a couple of years as telecoms engineer (radios and stuff) and switched my focus to IT 5 years ago. Now I am trying to land an IT Security job and after 9-10 unsuccessful interviews I started feeling down and unmotivated. Plus I don't understand why people don't seem to be interested in my CISSP that is supposed to be the best IT Sec cert.

What kind of security? If you are listing CNSS certs I assume you are looking federal? Are you willing to relocate?

Look at the job postings. That is going to tell you what experience you need. If you need analysis experience but can't get hired, spend some time generating traffic and exploring with tools so you can put the experience on your resume.

As for the CISSP, there have to be at least 5-10 CISSP's in management at my job. The organization has piss poor security. That speaks for itself in terms of my perceived value of the cert.

(Note, nothing personal against those people, most are intelligent and capable, but they are unwilling or unable to do what needs to be done.)

hurricane1091

I started to apply for jobs in November 2013 before I graduated college in December. Had MTA, A+, N+ and a degree in Computer Systems Technology and applied for a ton of jobs and got a ton of calls and ultimate was offered a contract job (paid well, I liked it, learned little to nothing) and did that until the end of April. So I was unemployed for an entire 4 months (May-August) before finally being offered another job after countless interviews, and I'm on an internship contract. I also got the CCENT and am taking the CCNA this month. So yes, I believe it's hard to initially get in and most importantly get the right experience.

cwshellhamer

Lack of education certs and experience.... but that'll all change when i knock out a few certs while finishing my bachelors degree

cyber_fan_monterey

SephStorm wrote: »

What kind of security? If you are listing CNSS certs I assume you are looking federal? Are you willing to relocate?

Look at the job postings. That is going to tell you what experience you need. If you need analysis experience but can't get hired, spend some time generating traffic and exploring with tools so you can put the experience on your resume.

As for the CISSP, there have to be at least 5-10 CISSP's in management at my job. The organization has piss poor security. That speaks for itself in terms of my perceived value of the cert.

(Note, nothing personal against those people, most are intelligent and capable, but they are unwilling or unable to do what needs to be done.)

I mostly search for security analyst or network security engineer positions. For security engineer jobs generally require basic network knowledge, traffic analysis, vuln. assessment etc whereas security analysts need to analyze malware and do some coding.

I have taken related courses like network sec, ethical hacking, computer forensics throughout my BS and Masters but I still need to have relevant professional experience. I have hard time answering because they don't ask basic questions in the interviews. They go deeper. For example I have a solid cryptography knowledge but few hiring managers asked for crypto stuff.

I still believe it will take short time to get adapted and acquire the necessary functionality of the job when i get hired but so far I could not convince the h.managers.

snunez889

It took me about a year to land my first IT job. During that time I kept pursuing certs and going to school. Every failed interview I had put me that much closer to the job. I took what I couldn't answer in the interviews and improved in that area. I was tough getting in, but if this is what you really want to do, you will find a way to make it happen.

cwshellhamer

^^ Through reading job postings and posts here on the forums, I get the feeling that it seems employers are looking for someone who is an EXACT fit for the position. It seems that they are willing willing to wait for that puzzle piece of a person. Someone in your position with a MS and a few Sec. certs should be able to fit in almost anywhere.

techfiend

My problems started with the resume, while I had an AAS IT degree and have A+ I wasn't getting any callbacks. Then I stumbled upon this community, took a few hours to read the resume thread to see what was working for people with no experience which led to changing from a chronological to a functional resume. This took me from no callbacks to 20-30% callbacks within a week.

Then it was the interviews, the first one I completely bombed and had nothing but bad thoughts on the way home. Then I started turning down interviews for jobs I had big issues with, like hours. 5 interviews later, mostly with recruiters, I was starting to get the hang of it. One thing that helped greatly for me is dressing up, I started out wearing a button down shirt and pants. That evolved in to wearing a suit and tie and feeling very confident during interviews. I'm a heavy sweater especially during interviews and wearing the suit coat helped immensely, I notice most interviewers also sweat during interviews which also helps.

Then it came to the followup, I remained silent, hoping to hear from the company which rarely happened. First time I handwrote thank you letters which was basically a mashup of examples I found online to the 3 interviewers, no reply yet. Second time I emailed without using examples, just going by what I felt the same day of the interview, this netted me a job offer less than a week after I interviewed.

TLDR: Resume, interview, followups were all big problems for me when I found TE. Without TE they would still be issues.

cyber_fan_monterey

cwshellhamer wrote: »

^^ Through reading job postings and posts here on the forums, I get the feeling that it seems employers are looking for someone who is an EXACT fit for the position. It seems that they are willing willing to wait for that puzzle piece of a person. Someone in your position with a MS and a few Sec. certs should be able to fit in almost anywhere.

Yeah it is right that employers are looking for the exact fit for the positions. At least itis what I felt. I had interviews with big companies like Amazon, Apple, Symantec, Cisco either phone or on-site and couldn't make it so far. Maybe i should go for the local and less competitive ones.

pinkydapimp

techfiend wrote: »

My problems started with the resume, while I had an AAS IT degree and have A+ I wasn't getting any callbacks. Then I stumbled upon this community, took a few hours to read the resume thread to see what was working for people with no experience which led to changing from a chronological to a functional resume. This took me from no callbacks to 20-30% callbacks within a week.

Then it was the interviews, the first one I completely bombed and had nothing but bad thoughts on the way home. Then I started turning down interviews for jobs I had big issues with, like hours. 5 interviews later, mostly with recruiters, I was starting to get the hang of it. One thing that helped greatly for me is dressing up, I started out wearing a button down shirt and pants. That evolved in to wearing a suit and tie and feeling very confident during interviews. I'm a heavy sweater especially during interviews and wearing the suit coat helped immensely, I notice most interviewers also sweat during interviews which also helps.

Then it came to the followup, I remained silent, hoping to hear from the company which rarely happened. First time I handwrote thank you letters which was basically a mashup of examples I found online to the 3 interviewers, no reply yet. Second time I emailed without using examples, just going by what I felt the same day of the interview, this netted me a job offer less than a week after I interviewed.

TLDR: Resume, interview, followups were all big problems for me when I found TE. Without TE they would still be issues.

I would be curious to know some demographics(avg salary, unemployed vs employed, etc) about this forum. Reading posts like this, I feel like just reading posts on here puts one in a much better position for success.

techfiend

Judging by TE linkedin group's titles I'd say most are mid level and about equal amounts of high and entry level members, most seem to be employed. I think all but the entry level workers are making well above national average and living comfortably.

While this is an IT cert board at it's core, it has a lot of great career advice that's growing substantially. I notice the IT Jobs / Degree section is more active then the rest of the board. I tried searching for questions I had such as tough questions on interviews, thank you notes, etc. but didn't have much luck. This community was more than willing to help me out and probably many others without knowing in a positive way and I don't think I would have found that in other job related forums. I was making many mistakes and was really glad to be corrected. In general, this community thinks a like and IT workers I've met share some traits. There's been very few conflicting suggestions among the members while the internet is full of conflicts.

Blackout

I lucked out and got one right when I separated from the Navy, I had Zero experience but had certifications I had been working on for a few years. I am the exception to the rule. One thing I can tell you, when you do get your foot int he door, your in. Once you start building experience it becomes easier to find jobs. I never started getting many bites until after I had my CCNA.

cwshellhamer

cyber_fan_monterey wrote: »

Yeah it is right that employers are looking for the exact fit for the positions. At least itis what I felt. I had interviews with big companies like Amazon, Apple, Symantec, Cisco either phone or on-site and couldn't make it so far. Maybe i should go for the local and less competitive ones.

Guess it shows how important relevant experience is I just want a help desk job wile im getting my bachelors degree, not like im asking for a million dollars lol

markulous

I'll always recommend protonic.com or something similar. It's pro-bono work, but qualifies as ticketing/troubleshooting experience that you can list on your resume. Helped me get a temp job doing imaging then helped me get the job I'm at now.

cwshellhamer

So can people just register and volunteer for this website?

Khaos1911

I'm currently looking for IT Security or Cyber Security jobs that offer relocation, which is difficult enough, but I'm finding two things are holding me back. The jobs that really interest me require you to have some sort of Security Clearance (Secret or TSI) and/or a huge number of years of experience while I have a good three in infosec.

I have some decent certs, a bachelors, only three years of Infosec experience, and while the years keep adding up I plan on continuing to build my skillset...Adding CISSP within the next 4-6 months (don't really want it, but it appears to be all the rage with job postings) and starting a MS in infosec or Cyber Security (Still trying to decide between WGU, USF, Georgia Tech and a couple others). Not sure what else I could do, I'm not in a major InfoSec market, which is really killing me, but I'm doing good salary wise, but no matter what I make I'll always want more. (long sigh)

markulous

cwshellhamer wrote: »

So can people just register and volunteer for this website?

For that one, you just have to take a small test that tests your IT knowledge and they either accept your or deny you. I am assuming it's a pass/fail type thing and you get a good enough score and you're in.

cwshellhamer

Whelp couldn't hurt to throw that on my resume. Thanks man

SephStorm

cyber_fan_monterey wrote: »

I mostly search for security analyst or network security engineer positions. For security engineer jobs generally require basic network knowledge, traffic analysis, vuln. assessment etc whereas security analysts need to analyze malware and do some coding.

I have taken related courses like network sec, ethical hacking, computer forensics throughout my BS and Masters but I still need to have relevant professional experience. I have hard time answering because they don't ask basic questions in the interviews. They go deeper. For example I have a solid cryptography knowledge but few hiring managers asked for crypto stuff.

I still believe it will take short time to get adapted and acquire the necessary functionality of the job when i get hired but so far I could not convince the h.managers.

I'll pm you so we don't clutter up the thread. ight have some advice for you.

lsud00d

Adding to the pillars OP outlined: your network

I broke into IT working part-time at my college help desk thanks to a friend that was on staff full-time and needed to hire some more student workers. I excelled in the position, soon becoming the student leader, and was offered a full-time position while still in school. It's been nothing but success since start

IIIMaster

Best way to break into IT is from networking. Let everyone know your looking for jobs in IT. I say just by word of mouth I was able land a lot interviews. Or someone attempted to offer me job from word of mout. But I decline them because I did not think much of them. In the end I ended up in a great organization that help me grow my skills.

SoCalGuy858

IIIMaster wrote: »

Best way to break into IT is from networking. Let everyone know your looking for jobs in IT. I say just by word of mouth I was able land a lot interviews. Or someone attempted to offer me job from word of mout. But I decline them because I did not think much of them. In the end I ended up in a great organization that help me grow my skills.

Most definitely this. I landed my first IT job a few months out of high school because someone who knew me was willing to take a chance, and it most certainly paid off. That job (IT consulting company) led to another: a client of the company, who wanted to hire an in-house guy. Last but not least... my current job was attained through an offer by a fellow volunteer in a non-profit I belong to.

mweaver84

Its all about the interviews. You need to be enthusiastic at the interview. You need show your excited to be there at the interview and excited at the opportunity to work there. As far as knowledge as long you know basic troubleshooting you should be fine. Manager's are going to take someone who wants to be there over someone who knows a little more.

I straight up quit my job last year because the company brought in a new manager and after a couple of months of getting micro managed to hell I put in my 2 weeks notice without having a job lined up. Went on a bunch of interviews, I think I turned down 3 full time job opportunities, and at 2 other places where I got it down to me or one other person and where they went with the other person... Wouldn't even have accepted one of them but was little disappointed about the other. Which brings up another point, if you don't get the position, don't be afraid to ask what you could've done better. Your likely not to see them ever again so don't be worried if they don't even respond. I actually got a response from the receptionist from the place I didn't get the job and they said I didn't seem as excited as I could've been... Was a little surprised, but think it may have been because I scheduled the interview (was the second interview) early in the morning and was still a little tired.

And btw I'm a fairly shy person, so acting excited and being talkative isn't the easiest thing for me. What I like to do before interviews, which may sound a little ridiculous, is down a can of Monster! Gets me a lot of energy and usually gets me to be a lot more talkative and seem excited. That might back fire for some but it works for me.

And lastly go on alot of interviews, and look up and practice interview questions. If your having trouble getting interviews go on interviews at places you don't want to work. Get an interview at McDonalds! Just the experience of talking about yourself infront of someone looking to hire you is valuable experience. You do not want to be in an interview and not have an answer for a question. There are a lot of annoying interview questions that can be difficult to answer off the top of your head. You need to think of alot of examples in previous jobs where you showed either leadership, ambition, or being able to think out of the box.