First Job...finally got a foot in the door at an MSP but I didn't work out...

brianshaffer

Sorry for the long post but I'm not sure how to better explain my work experience scenerio.

I've been applying to jobs for the past 6 months (since passing the CCNA exam) just trying to get my foot in the door, anywhere, to get some hands on experience in the IT industry doing anything.

I finally got an opportunity at an MSP. Unfortunately, I felt overwhelmed as I've never had exposure to a ticket system (entering billable time) and RMM software.

My questions is to IT professionals in regard to on the job training. Is there such a thing as on the job training anymore? If so, how long does it typically last?

I have my certifications but very little hands on experience. I have a solid understanding of fundamentals and principals of computer networking and IT related concepts.

My first day on the job at the MSP I watched some videos (for about 2 hours) about the RMM software and the ticketing system. Then I spent about 2 hours getting familiar with the interface on both of the the ticket platform and the RMM platform.

After lunch I spent time with a level 2 tech and watched him go through some tickets and I was surprised by the amount of different technologies one needs to have knowledge of. I did feel like I was drinking off a firehose...

The next day (Day 2) when I can him I was pretty much left alone. No one approached me to tell me where or what I should be doing. So I pulled up some completed tickets to look at to get a look at the troubleshooting process some of the techs did to complete the jobs. I then asked the Level 2 guy if I could sit with him again for a little bit and watch him work some more. I did that until lunch time and after lunch he informed me he needed to 'catch up' and the rest of the day I spent by myself repeating what I did on day 1 e.g. getting familiar with the interface and looking at older tickets.

Essentially I got the impression from the level 2 tech is 1) he didn't want to train me 2) he didn't think I could ever catch on and was wasting his time or 3) I should be up to speed and off to the races working on my own tickets. I understand trying to complete work and train another person can difficult sometimes which is why I tried not to bother them too much.

Day 3 (Christmas Eve Day- Half Day) - Again no one approached me as to what I should be doing. I asked to sit with the tech again and they paired me with a level 1 tech and watched him work tickets until lunchtime. After lunch I went back to my own desk being that it was a holiday I got the impression the guys wanted to be left alone and not bothered with training so they could catch up and leave early for Christmas eve.

5 days off and I come back on monday and I'm still processing alot of the information. In my view it was 2.5 days of training (limited at that), my employer and co-workers are probably thinking this guy has been here a week now.

Again, that Monday morning I was left completely alone so I asked one of the co-workers if he had some time where I could sit with him or if I should start working on tickets. He said to start working on tickets (which I wasn't ready for). At that point I felt like 1) An idiot for not being able to catch on faster 2) they didn't want to take the time to train me 3) I wasn't being set up to succeed either because my co-workers didn't want to train me or the owner told my co-workers to train the new guy for X amount of time and that's it.

So I essentially told the owner that I wasn't up to speed and I didn't feel comfortable that the "vibe" wasn't right.

Sorry for the long winded scenario I just wanted to get feedback as to what type of training is to be expected or if it's sink or swim is the normal in most IT jobs. I'm a bit despondent now about my abilities and my confidence isnt' the highest it's ever been after the MSP experience. I'm not placing blame just trying to get an idea of this is what I can expect in the future at other places where I may get an opportunity.

I think I process information similar to OSPF...I may be slow at first to make sure I get a solid understanding but once I converge I'm quick and efficient.

Any feedback as to what I can expect or how I could have handled myself differently is appreciated.

cs8400

That is a shame that your new co-workers are giving you this treatment. I can say that I have worked at places and experienced the same "new guy" treatment. Give it some time and see if it doesn't work out. If you still feel uncomfortable with the environment and the workflow after a month or so, maybe start looking for something that would better suit you.

VAHokie56

I would just start working tickets on my own and asking a lot of questions when i did not get something. Some times its trial by fire man but I bet you would surprise your self if you just jumped in. Be confident and get to the grind!

J_86

I worked at an MSP for about 7 months (I had IT experience before working there), your "training" in about what I. I watched videos about their software, sat and watched a few techs, and then started working tickets.
Honestly, IT field does not a lot "hold your hand" type of training. Sure, there are somethings you should expect to be trained on, like how to operate their RMM and their policies, etc. With your certifications, you would be surprised how much you knew or were able to figure out with a little researching or asking another tech. You were able to pass the certification test, give yourself a little more credit and be more confident!

brianshaffer

Well I threw in the towel already when I told the owner I wasn't ready to start handling tickets on my own. If I had gotten the impression they were willing to work with me and train me more I would have 'stuck it out', but ultimately the guys I would be leaning on and turning to we're guys that I felt didn't want to see me succeed, and therefore not a environment I wanted to work in.

Maybe I gave up too early...

I just thought there may have been more of a training process..i.e. someone looking over my shoulder for a day or two. Somone to walk me through a few of the lower level tickets as opposed to me watching them work.

"Here start with these 5 tickets...they should be pretty easy". Instead of "Yeah start working tickets...."

The qoute from Benjamin Franklin comes to mind "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I may remember. Involve me and I learn."

I can learn some by listening, reading and watching others but ultimately I learn by kinetic and by doing myself.

I should expect more of this though?

Valor85

What is your job title? Were you hired on as a level 2 or 3? From my experience, on the job training seems to be common for tier 1 positions. My first job in IT was help desk and I had a 2 week training period. I've only been with this one company since starting my IT career, so I can't speak for everyone, but it seems like everything past tier 1 doesn't normally get a formal training. The new guys who started in my department recently got 2 - 3 days to get used to our ticketing system and process, but after that we let them loose and they usually ask A LOT of questions the first few weeks.

If they hired you above a tier 1, and are aware of your certs, it's my bet they assumed you would be ready to start working tickets on day 1 or 2. My advice would be to start working some tickets and ask a lot of questions along the way. It is not going to look good if you're sitting around all day waiting for instruction. Go through your team's unassigned queue and start taking some tickets. If you hit a speed bump while working on them, ask your coworkers for some assistance. If they see you taking the initiative and eager to work they should be willing to help. We've all been new at some point. You'll get the hang of it! Good luck and Happy New Year!

J_86

If you work for another MSP, don't be surprised if you see thing same type of training and experience. MSP are a whole different ball game. If you want a little more training and someone watching over you, maybe try for a larger company. They usually have a set standard for training, timelines, etc.

brianshaffer

I was brought on as a level 1.

Again, this was my first time experiencing a ticket system and RMM so I was a bit overwhelmed. Plus, the amount of technologies they are dealing with managing different SMBs was quite extensive. Many of the technologies I have little to no knowledge of.

As J-86 suggested perhaps working for an in-house IT would be better suited for me starting out to get my bearings about me and get some initial experience.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone.

xnx

You need to use your own initiative, If you were a level 1 tech then surely you could have just escalated the more complicated tickets?

Balantine

I advise you, for future reference, to keep a notebook. Write everything down as you go.

bhcs2014

I agree with the others, you should have just started working tickets. I know how it can be overwhelming being your first IT job but the best way to quickly learn is to throw yourself into the fire. If you need help just ask. No one expects you to be up to speed right away.

I know I felt like you when I started my first IT job, overwhelmed. I think that is a normal feeling in IT when you are about to learn a lot! After I powered through that initial phase of feeling overwhelmed I felt accomplished and like I had learned a lot in a short time.

Moral of the story is to be initiative and don't give up. If something is overwhelming that is a good sign. You don't want it to be easy! I think you made a mistake by quitting but hopefully you learned a thing or two about how IT works.

bigdogz

Yeah... just consider yourself to be in the thick of things all of the time. Is is organized kaos because you answer to the customer.

Just jump in and if you ask questions on the job. Shoot.

shodown

Some MSP's have some OJT, other don't as management try to figure out what a MSP should be. The fact that you quit shows another problem that you need to look at. You never got any warnings or anything. You just gave up cause you couldn't get into the flow. We've all been there and some of us bit down on our mouth piece and accepted the challenge. You did nothing wrong outside of quitting. Others may have other responses, but to me thats the first thing that needs to be addressed.

techfiend

You might surprise yourself what you can do and learn by jumping in. When first starting out in a support role it's crucial to ask a lot of questions, even if you are pretty sure of the solution, to get a feel for the company policies. The MSP I interviewed with told me 3-4 weeks is a typical time line to go solo, that seems about right.

I can relate to the overwhelming part when you first start. I'm in my first IT job as the sole desktop support guy most of the time. The manager tells me the general issue and on a rare occasion gives me some documentation to work with. Otherwise I go look at the problem, find the most sensible (to me) solution, then ask the manager if that's what I should do. A month in, I still get surprised by some of the solutions he presents because of the weird policies in place. Every tech/admin has their own little nuances where one's solution can be a burden for others, learning these can be half the job, especially at an msp where you are working on many different environments. Also asking questions can help you get to know your colleagues.

Good luck on your next job's search, if you found MSP overwhelming, maybe focus on desktop support. It should give you about the same exposure at a slower pace.

brianshaffer

Had I felt more comfortable with my co-workers perhaps I would have been more willing to stick it out, but again the feeling I got from them even on my 1st day was not one of being supportive. That, more than anything was the underlying reason I decided to walk away. If I was feeling that 'bad vibe' early on in the employment then something just wasn't right.

On my second day I was essentially left on my own. I had to ask to sit with one of techs for awhile...to me that seemed odd.

It's a bit mind blowing to me that asking for more than 3 days of training is asking for too much, and even those 3 days the training was sparse at best.

I understand you have to roll up your sleeves and get after at some point there's no other way to learn, however as a new employee I had some expectations of training. Instead, what I got was a feeling of reluctance on the part of my co-workers to show me the ropes.

Could I have been more assertive and show more initiative? Yes.

Should I have? Yes probably I should have.

The good is now I have a better understanding of what to expect.

LeBroke

This is pretty normal. My first week at my current job, the girl training me was basically, "I've got **** to do right now, I'll train you when I can and you're welcome to handle what you know, but feel free to bring a laptop and play games because there's nothing better for you to do right now."

...I finally learned to play Vayne and also went up a few leagues on my smurf.

Kai123

It does not sound like a great working culture. Were you told how long it would be expected for you to learn? Generally with places that just throw you into the deep-end like that, see it just as a foot in the door. Its quicker to learn as much as possible and jump ship.

I worked for a big ISP, my training was 1 week observing and then thrown into the deep end. I was told that I would not be expected to become really useful until 6 months after learning all of the technologies we cover. Between the pressure and extremely helpful colleagues, its been a brilliant experience so far. If no-one is expecting you learn from them, then chalk it up to a bad job, get experience and move into a better workplace.

DoubleNNs

Wish you had posted before quitting. I'm sure we could have helped you out thru your difficulties - which porbbaly would have lasted for a month or 2, but you would have realized how far you came after that and that you essentially got paid to learn (By fire) how to work in an IT shop.

Hopefully it doesn't take you another 6 months to land another gig.

Good luck.

DoubleNNs

The experience also gives you a better idea on what to look out for during the interview - try to gauge the workplace's vibe/atmosphere from the interview. Also, might want to ask how the first few days/weeks on the job are supposed to pan out and what to expect. At least, next time you'll be prepared if something similar is to happen.

Kai123

DoubleNNs wrote: »

Wish you had posted before quitting. I'm sure we could have helped you out thru your difficulties - which porbbaly would have lasted for a month or 2, but you would have realized how far you came after that and that you essentially got paid to learn (By fire) how to work in an IT shop.

Hopefully it doesn't take you another 6 months to land another gig.

Good luck.

I didn't read the whole post before replying myself.

you are right. Hopefully it does not impact the OP's future employment prospects! Even with a good working atmosphere, it can be very stressful and tense while figuring things out. Going from a bad environment forced to learn by baptism of fire, to a supportive one would probably be very uplifting.

NetworkingStudent

I work for an MSP and I had 2 months of training.

I still have on going traning as technologies and procedures change.

I think they FAILED in the fact that you didn't get enough training.

However, there should have been a point during your employment were you asked owner or manager if there was more training.

As far as the employees treating you like an outsider, I think that happens to everyone that starts their fist few weeks at school, a job, ect.

People see anyone new as the new person, don't they don't know h0wo to act to something unknown.

When I worked at previous non IT job, no one wanted take the time to train in the new guys.



Trust me there is more to working at an MSP than just closing tickets.
In the future...

Don't be afraid to ask the owner/manager questions or ask for help

Keep a note book digital (if the employer says it's ok) or a paper one

Also, each person thinks differently when they approach tickets and technology.

Look at how each person resolved the issue at hand (check previous or current tickets)

Don'T be afraid to ask questions.

See if you can put something in place to keep the issue from reoccurring.


There is a certain way to ask a question, were the person you're asking feels like they're part of the resolution, instead of just being asked questions... Use this to your advanatge..
The wrong way to ask a question: Can you help fix this backup ticket?
A better way: I really like the way you resolve those backup ticket, Can you please help me with a few backup tickets that I have?

Jon_Cisco

It is unfortunate that you gave up so quickly. Hopefully your life situation is one that allows you this luxury.

As you are attempting to get to know the place others are attempting to get to know you.
Not all places have on the job training but the boss usually has some idea of what he expects.

Sometimes a place just is not right for you. Move on and enjoy your life.
However while your reflecting about your most recent experience make sure to be honest with yourself. New ticket systems and overwhelming workloads are excuses. Since it's your first job these should be considered a given. You have to start at the bottom and finding someone to give you that opportunity is often the hardest part for many people.

Consider that your coworkers may very well have been stressed for the holidays and their manager just made a poor decision bringing someone in for a short week. Any time you are in a position of not getting what you expect from someone try to see if from the other side. It might not have been personal at all but you were not there long enough to find out.

Now as others have said you have a better sense to the types of questions you could ask at your next interview.

Good Luck!

apollookc

Just curious: which RMM software and ticketing system they were using?

networker050184

Well, at least you learned a valuable lesson that you are going to have to make your own way. Stick with it next time. Good luck!

Cyberscum

@Brian
Dude you quit after 3 days???

Man it took me about 6-7 months to get comfortable in my current role and do crap on my own (yes, I was a pain in the ass for my trainer but I help him alot now).

I honestly think that you should have brought your concerns up to the manager as soon as you had them.


Questions you should have asked before you quit…

1. What do you expect of me performance wise for the first, second and third month?
2. Who will be my trainer(s) and how much training will they give me a day?
3. Who can I talk to if I am having trouble?

I am not trying to be mean, but how is anyone suppose to know that you are having trouble if you say nothing and do nothing?
...Also, someone posted keeping a notebook...I second that, a notebook is my second brain and has helped me for things that I need to memorize, but just dont want to allocate braincells to do....I only have a few left

hurricane1091

My first job a year ago after finishing school was a contract job upgrading XP to 7 at hospitals. Training involved 2 days at an office at the hospitals HQ and being shown once how the software worked and how to install a couple common applications. That was it and I was on my way. Realistically if something broke we could just throw it to the actual hospital IT staff but that takes a special kind of person to look someone in the eyes and say "I can't fix it, ask someone else." So I learned a lot from experience and Google.

Next is my current job. I was actually productive since Day 1 here. Not needing instruction on how to provide desktop support or set up/configure new laptops and desktops, I was never trained on that. Which is my primary focus here. But everything else I was shown (backup software, patch software, VoIP director, etc etc) once and I would take notes, and then the Sr. Systems Engineer would watch me do it if I needed him to or I would watch him once more. I caught on relatively quickly but asked many questions and ultimately these were tasks I was taking from him, so he had to show me properly. Moral of the story is working for a small company will expose you to everything and be helpful in the learning process.

crobeinthehouse

I have worked in that field extensively and trained a few people myself. You need at least a solid week of training to get a good foundation of what you are dealing with. Although training certainly helps you get a feel of things, you really start learning once you start taking tickets for yourself. It is normal to ask a bunch of questions at first, it sounds like that is what they were expecting of you, but you were not comfortable doing that. Sometimes you have to jump outside of your comfort zone to succeed. I know I have... good luck man.

xocity

I have only worked for MSP's (Been around 3 or 4 of them) and I can say that the First 2 weeks to a month are the hardest. Your in a new environment with 100 different new clients with new coworkers, new processes and software. It gets really frustrating at first because the information is extremely overwhelming and you feel like you will never get it.

My first MSP was a 2 man help desk and I was one of one of the 2 people. Just threw me in the fire on day 2 and said "Make it happen". I almost went home after lunch but decided to try it out. Worst case scenario, I got some experience, and got paid for week. It was really hard but after about a month or 2, I became extremely proficient at managing the tickets and getting issues resolved and got a few raises because of it. 1.5 years later, I moved to a much bigger MSP, got about a 12k increase in pay and looking back and thinking about what would have happened if I quit.

When you first start off in this field with no EXP, you sometimes have to jump in the deep and and try to float. After you pay your dues and go through pain of first year, your next job/career jump will be much smoother.

Wish you had posted before you quit. Next time, make it happen, work through it. Let us know and we'll help anyway we can.
Have confidence and just do your best!!

bgold87

I currently work for an MSP and I have a new guy starting under me this Monday so kind of glad you brought this up. The problem is the other techs are so busy that they need you to dig in, give it a shot, and ask questions about what you do next. It may not be they were ignoring you or didn't want to train, they were just on tight dead lines.

In these kind of environments you really have to be willing to jump in and be a motivated self-starter <

---

Did you hear that phrase in your interview?

markulous

Based on what you said, it sounds like they have really poor training and I'd be surprised if there weren't a lot of other people that had to go through that there. As an entry-level job, there should be a good week of training. Day 1 training is typically about the company and getting an overview of how the company operates. Day 2 you can log into some of the systems and learn more about your specific duties. Day 3-5 you should be setting up your PC and shadowing some people and getting a feel for the ticketing system. Week 2 they can slowly take the training wheels off and make sure you're able to take calls/tickets on your own by the end of the week.

Although the above depends on the company and how much experience you have.

Since it was your first IT job, you should have tried to stick it out. Maybe it's not the ideal place, but it's experience. The worst case scenario is that they fire you and you get a lot of good experience in the mean time and you can move onto somewhere else. Most of those places aren't going to fire entry-level techs for being wet behind the ears though. Instead, now you are back to square 1 and have to try to find a place that will hire you without any experience.

Clevernamehere

I remember my first day they showed me how to cut and put ends on ethernet cable, then handed me the tool and said have it. I remember thinking "I'm probably gonna get docked my first days pay for all this cable i just accidentally cut." But they also gave me the keys to the kingdom so to speak and said if you blow something up we have backups. I only blew up a couple of small things but it's a great learning experience and I'm better for it. I also know I never wanna cut or run ethernet cable again. I just don't think my hands are made for that.