My Career Path Trajectory Dilemma....

CCIE Wanna Be

So a little background, I started out in helpdesk and just recently move into a hybrid role supporting off-shore and overseas resources with mostly tier 1 and some tier 2 responsibilities. We have both windows and Linux apps, but I'm current restricted mostly to the Windows side. We have some elevated responsibilities but its so specific to the clients that it isn't really marketable elsewhere. So other than basic end-user PC hardware/network and software troubleshooting I'm not getting to do much else (not even the Linux stuff, which I would like to, the Linux/UNIX admin here are very guarded and protective of their stuff (to some extent I understand, but I am not a noob)). I would like to transition into networking, I'm current working on my Cisco stuff since that where everyone say to start, I should sit for my CCNA next month.

My question I want to move into networking (my plan from day one) but without having to move backwards in career, how can I get into the networking arena, most of the listings I see for non-senior Network Admin, Network Engineer, Network Analyst and even most NOC positions still require like 17,000 years (kidding) of experience and exposure to every networking companies product with actual work-related knowledge. Unfortunately I cannot touch switches, routers, or firewalls where I work, so other that certifications and home-labs what can I do, I don't want to have 5 year of helpdesk experience and nothing to show for (I fear getting stuck in helpdesk role). I have been sending out my resume, but not getting interviews, should I wait until I get more certs or what.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

networker050184

Nothing else you can do besides convincing someone to give you a chance. Make sure you resume is top notch and when you get a call make sure you can sell yourself.

ccie14023

You know, my first job in networking, way back in 2000, was a Sr. Network Engineer position. I applied for it with no experience specifically in networking and really only a CCNA. I wouldn't have applied except that the recruiter really encouraged me. Don't be intimidated by the experience requirements of job postings. Nobody has everything in the job description. Focus on core stuff (yes Cisco, I will admit even though I work at Juniper) and don't be afraid to aim at jobs that look above you. With GNS3 and other tools you can actually get quite competent without even touching hardware. And take some time to get a little side experience in relevant technologies. VMware experience, for example, can be very valuable for a network engineer these days, and there are blogs out there that will help you set up a basic VMware lab. Good luck!

Danielm7

While I mostly agree with ccie14023 on just applying anyway if you're a little below the requirements, getting jobs in IT in 2000 was way different than today. I started in 2000 too, I had a resume with 0 professional experience and the first place I applied was like... whoa you have microsoft certs... here are the keys to the kingdom! I was instantly in charge of 7 locations, networks, servers, everything. Today the same place probably wants 8+ years of experience and a masters degree to look at the application.

My rant about swelling requirements aside, people hire people they like and trust. Do everything you can on your own, home lab, volunteer, anything. Then once you find a place that will give you a shot in networking you'll be set to more onward and upward.

CCIE Wanna Be

ccie14023 wrote: »

You know, my first job in networking, way back in 2000, was a Sr. Network Engineer position. I applied for it with no experience specifically in networking and really only a CCNA. I wouldn't have applied except that the recruiter really encouraged me. Don't be intimidated by the experience requirements of job postings. Nobody has everything in the job description. Focus on core stuff (yes Cisco, I will admit even though I work at Juniper) and don't be afraid to aim at jobs that look above you. With GNS3 and other tools you can actually get quite competent without even touching hardware. And take some time to get a little side experience in relevant technologies. VMware experience, for example, can be very valuable for a network engineer these days, and there are blogs out there that will help you set up a basic VMware lab. Good luck!

That's my game plan at the moment...I can't get a job that i don't apply to. Trust me I'm walking around with my finger crossed for a callback. I see you mention blogs for VMware lab setup, can you suggest one, I can google it, but maybe you know one that is better. Thank for the advice.

CCIE Wanna Be

Danielm7 wrote: »

While I mostly agree with ccie14023 on just applying anyway if you're a little below the requirements, getting jobs in IT in 2000 was way different than today. I started in 2000 too, I had a resume with 0 professional experience and the first place I applied was like... whoa you have microsoft certs... here are the keys to the kingdom! I was instantly in charge of 7 locations, networks, servers, everything. Today the same place probably wants 8+ years of experience and a masters degree to look at the application.

My rant about swelling requirements aside, people hire people they like and trust. Do everything you can on your own, home lab, volunteer, anything. Then once you find a place that will give you a shot in networking you'll be set to more onward and upward.

I agree, not to discredit ccie14023's advice, but this isn't the Y2K. Hopefully I will get lucky, I think my major hindrance is having a non-IT bachelor's, so many jobs ask for it as a minimum requirement, this should begin to be rectified starting in June or July.

stryder144

Another thing to consider, as it regards going backward, is that you might go "backward" positionally, but not necessarily in pay. One organization that I interviewed for had their help desk starting pay around $40k a year. The starting pay for those at the bottom of the network totem pole was $55k a year. The biggest difference between the two positions? You had to have a degree and at least the CCNA for the network job. Ultimately, if you keep plugging away at it, you will get a much better job with fantastic pay and benefits!

CCIE Wanna Be

stryder144 wrote: »

Another thing to consider, as it regards going backward, is that you might go "backward" positionally, but not necessarily in pay. One organization that I interviewed for had their help desk starting pay around $40k a year. The starting pay for those at the bottom of the network totem pole was $55k a year. The biggest difference between the two positions? You had to have a degree and at least the CCNA for the network job. Ultimately, if you keep plugging away at it, you will get a much better job with fantastic pay and benefits!

Yeah this my hope, I want to be able to apply some of the skills I'm learning with Cisco and the like, while avoiding the folks who tend to "bash" folks with certs and little to no "applied" experience (If you guys want to offer a solution to this conundrum, I'm all ears). I really can't wrap my head around this...You need experience to get hired, but need certs to qualify for the job to get the experience, but shouldn't have certs without experience....smh! I digress.

Sorry for the cynicism, I do appreciate everyone's insight!

Jon_Cisco

CCIE Wanna Be wrote: »

I really can't wrap my head around this...You need experience to get hired, but need certs to qualify for the job to get the experience, but shouldn't have certs without experience....smh! I digress.

Sorry for the cynicism, I do appreciate everyone's insight!

I am not sure how old you are but I am 41. When I started in my first career it was the same way. I have posted about this before but I believe my parents generation probably said the same thing. The thing is after the first job you have experience and nobody was ever born with experience. So accept that like every other person working in the world you will cross that road too.

So yes you need someone to take a chance but after that it's completely up to you. I have hired people before and I can tell you I will take someone with experience any day. However that's not always what people are looking for. Sometimes a new person looking to learn new things brings better energy to a department and sometimes companies are just cheap and take whatever they can get. The point is opportunities will come and you need to be prepared to accept them.

When thinking about your career think of multi year spans. Is a networking gig with a pay cut a step backwards? Is a lateral move that lets you work with hardware a step backwards?

Life is not always fair but learning and trying are going to push you in the right direction. Good Luck!

anhtran35

CCIE Wanna Be wrote: »

Yeah this my hope, I want to be able to apply some of the skills I'm learning with Cisco and the like, while avoiding the folks who tend to "bash" folks with certs and little to no "applied" experience (If you guys want to offer a solution to this conundrum, I'm all ears). I really can't wrap my head around this...You need experience to get hired, but need certs to qualify for the job to get the experience, but shouldn't have certs without experience....smh! I digress.

Sorry for the cynicism, I do appreciate everyone's insight!

Once you get your CCNA you will get phone calls especially for NA positions.

CCIE Wanna Be

Jon_Cisco wrote: »

I am not sure how old you are but I am 41. When I started in my first career it was the same way. I have posted about this before but I believe my parents generation probably said the same thing. The thing is after the first job you have experience and nobody was ever born with experience. So accept that like every other person working in the world you will cross that road too.

So yes you need someone to take a chance but after that it's completely up to you. I have hired people before and I can tell you I will take someone with experience any day. However that's not always what people are looking for. Sometimes a new person looking to learn new things brings better energy to a department and sometimes companies are just cheap and take whatever they can get. The point is opportunities will come and you need to be prepared to accept them.

When thinking about your career think of multi year spans. Is a networking gig with a pay cut a step backwards? Is a lateral move that lets you work with hardware a step backwards?

Life is not always fair but learning and trying are going to push you in the right direction. Good Luck!

Thanks, at this point I'm willing to do what it takes, just holding on to hope that I don't have go backwards in pay again, but an interview and offer at some point to be able to make that decision would be nice. I do understand what you are saying and I will continue my push onward and upward...fingers crossed.

CCIE Wanna Be

anhtran35 wrote: »

Once you get your CCNA you will get phone calls especially for NA positions.

Hope to be ready to test for it at the beginning of next month.

stlsmoore

When I wanted to move into networking I had to take a lower role, 50% pay cut along, and obtain my CCNA. It took 2-3 years to get back to my original income and another year to finally surpass it. Sometimes you may have to temporarily sacrifice (suffer) to achieve your goals.

Thirty Six Stratagems

NOC-Ninja

If I was in your situation then I would pass the CCNA first. After that, talk to your network engineer at your work. Tell them you have a CCNA and ask them if they need help. You can volunteer and put those in your resume. Sooner or later if there is an opening, they will give that to you.

The other option is take a paycut to get experience. Look for someone that will give you a chance.

anhtran35

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

If I was in your situation then I would pass the CCNA first. After that, talk to your network engineer at your work. Tell them you have a CCNA and ask them if they need help. You can volunteer and put those in your resume. Sooner or later if there is an opening, they will give that to you.

The other option is take a paycut to get experience. Look for someone that will give you a chance.

Correct. When I worked in a NOC many years ago, they didn't allow us to touch anything. However, the SA team was next door. I asked the Manager and my current manager that I could shadow him during off hours. He allowed me to do some maintenance stuff etc. Stuck that on my resume.

instant000

Seriously, try to find a "insert_product_here" user group in your area. There may very well be a meetup for whatever you're interested in. Shake some hands, shoot some breeze, and next thing you know, you're one of those people who can acknowledge that it really is about "who you know".