First job in IT sector (computer security)

ChildInTime

Hello everyone.Currently I am finishing my master degree in computer security. I am 25, and never had a job in IT sector, but I had few other jobs. I am looking for advice on what kind of job should I aim for. I am interested in security, but I am not good at anything particular. It seems that I know little bit of everything but nothing particularly well. Same with programming and networking, I know some of that, but I am not a good programmer, so I am not sure if I can go to positions for programming. Obviously I don't expect good position and salary immediately, I don't really care about that now, I just want to get job somewhere in IT field and then improve myself in security field. Now you probably thinking that I should get some certificates and I'll do that after I finish my master, but in the meantime I want a job in IT sector.I am not even sure what to write in my resume, because if for instance I write that I can program in Python and I know networking, they probably expect that I am really good at it, or not?

anhtran35

Seek out your University IT department and intern ASAP.

ChildInTime

anhtran35 wrote: »

Seek out your University IT department and intern ASAP.

Will try that, any other ideas?

P.s. is it a good idea to put skills in resume this way:

Skills
Security: ethical hacking, network security, wireless security, cryptography
Programming: Python, C
Miscellaneous: Ubuntu, Kali Linux, MySQL

anhtran35

ChildInTime wrote: »

Will try that, any other ideas?

P.s. is it a good idea to put skills in resume this way:

Skills
Security: ethical hacking, network security, wireless security, cryptography
Programming: Python, C
Miscellaneous: Ubuntu, Kali Linux, MySQL

Under Security, what experience have you done that justify those skill-sets? Keep in mind this is the first thing I would ask as a Hiring Manager.

10Linefigure

Be sure your bachelors is on your resume and that you are currently working on your masters. They are both in IT so that will be a big help. I agree with anhtran35, find a place you can intern or work part time.

ChildInTime

anhtran35 wrote: »

Under Security, what experience have you done that justify those skill-sets? Keep in mind this is the first thing I would ask as a Hiring Manager.

My only experience is university. As I said I never had any job in IT. So I just write nothing in Skill section...?

Nersesian wrote: »

- Currently I am finishing my master degree in computer security. I am 25, and never had a job in IT sector

Point me to the man who did this to you. I don't mean to be glib, but I thought people in your position didn't exist. I would go with what some of the others have said and seek out an internship...like yesterday.

As a hiring manager, one of the first things I would ask is how you've been spending the last five or six years. In what ways do you feel qualified for a position? If you can translate that answer into a resume, you have a fair shot. Do please keep us updated. I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.

I am not sure what is surprising here exactly? If I had 4 years of bachelor and 2 years of master, it's makes 24-25 normal age to finish master. Or are you saying I should have worked while studying?

How I was spending my last 5 years? Studying, this master degree is hard, max I could manage would be maybe 2 days per week even if that.

TheFORCE

ChildInTime wrote: »

My only experience is university. As I said I never had any job in IT. So I just write nothing in Skill section...?



I am not sure what is surprising here exactly? If I had 4 years of bachelor and 2 years of master, it's makes 24-25 normal age to finish master. Or are you saying I should have worked while studying?

How I was spending my last 5 years? Studying, this master degree is hard, max I could manage would be maybe 2 days per week even if that.

If you do not have any specific skills that you are really good at, then under skills, you should put your general skills as it pertains to your character. If you know any other language, if you are a social person, if you are hard working, things like, ability to cope with high volume tasks or able to take responsibilities that dont exactly pertain to your current role, managers want to see if their employees are team members also and can work good as part of a group or on specific projects.

ChildInTime

TheFORCE wrote: »

If you do not have any specific skills that you are really good at, then under skills, you should put your general skills as it pertains to your character. If you know any other language, if you are a social person, if you are hard working, things like, ability to cope with high volume tasks or able to take responsibilities that dont exactly pertain to your current role, managers want to see if their employees are team members also and can work good as part of a group or on specific projects.

I don't know, things like 'hard working', 'social', 'teamplayer', etc sound very bad for me. Everyone puts them, and I think it's probably even better to put nothing.. or?Anyways, I am attaching my CV so you guys can check it out.

anhtran35

ChildInTime wrote: »

My only experience is university. As I said I never had any job in IT. So I just write nothing in Skill section...?

As a hiring manager, I would ask you how did you obtain the skills you place on your resume. You stated University experience. Please elaborate.

You get my point now? You place all these skills that you supposedly attained. To them you basically lied about your skill sets. This is a big NO NO.

ChildInTime

anhtran35 wrote: »

As a hiring manager, I would ask you how did you obtain the skills you place on your resume. You stated University experience. Please elaborate.

You get my point now? You place all these skills that you supposedly attained. To them you basically lied about your skill sets. This is a big NO NO.

But then how do you define 'obtaining skill'? If for instance I had several courses on network security, then several courses on cryptography, and of course passed them, so by your definition I still don't have those skills? If that's the case then I have no skills, because I didn't have a job in IT sector as I said.

And once again, I am looking for an entry job position. I am not looking for a high salary or anything like this.

H3||scr3am

I'd remove the interests section, cut the skills section into a word cloud style format, or comma separated list, and put it at the bottom (to pass HR keyword filters), and add more skills to it if you can (you need to be able to defend them). Furthermore, as others have stated, I'd look for an internship or even a volunteer position to hold and gain experience in, and list on your resume. I'd also consider pursuing some certifications, it is likely that your schooling has prepared you for some, I would venture out and take them, so that you can add a certifications section to your resume to further defend your skills and expertise since you lack work experience.

ChildInTime

H3||scr3am wrote: »

I'd remove the interests section, cut the skills section into a word cloud style format, or comma separated list, and put it at the bottom (to pass HR keyword filters), and add more skills to it if you can (you need to be able to defend them). Furthermore, as others have stated, I'd look for an internship or even a volunteer position to hold and gain experience in, and list on your resume. I'd also consider pursuing some certifications, it is likely that your schooling has prepared you for some, I would venture out and take them, so that you can add a certifications section to your resume to further defend your skills and expertise since you lack work experience.

Thanks for feedback. I am definitely going to get an internship ASAP.

P.s. in Linkedin there is "Skills" section where you can just select skills, so I was just trying to do similar in my resume.

fuz1on

To get into UI/UX and full stack web development a couple years ago, I volunteered through LinkedIn For Good for a couple non-profits. Not only did I get valuable experience and resume fodder, many of the people I met in those groups have proven to be great contacts for future endeavors and opportunities.

H3||scr3am

H3||scr3am wrote: »

I'd remove the interests section, cut the skills section into a word cloud style format, or comma separated list, and put it at the bottom (to pass HR keyword filters), and add more skills to it if you can (you need to be able to defend them). Furthermore, as others have stated, I'd look for an internship or even a volunteer position to hold and gain experience in, and list on your resume. I'd also consider pursuing some certifications, it is likely that your schooling has prepared you for some, I would venture out and take them, so that you can add a certifications section to your resume to further defend your skills and expertise since you lack work experience.

Yeah, I understand, myself I use resumonk to keep my resume up to date, and it just feeds off of my linkedin, so it keeps my skills up to date from linkedin, but linkedin maxes out at 50 skills, so on my resume I've manually added more too. Also, on linkedin some of the skills are shortformed/abreviated/ or acronyms, in my resume I forcible spell them out in full with the acronym in ()s.

Example: Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP) this way it would catch either word filter, and the individual words may also be keywords.

anhtran35

ChildInTime wrote: »

But then how do you define 'obtaining skill'? If for instance I had several courses on network security, then several courses on cryptography, and of course passed them, so by your definition I still don't have those skills? If that's the case then I have no skills, because I didn't have a job in IT sector as I said.

And once again, I am looking for an entry job position. I am not looking for a high salary or anything like this.

Skills by definition within a Hiring Manager eyes is do you have EXPERIENCE doing what you stated on your resume. If you don't. You don't list it. Taking a course on Windows Server 2012 is different from actually working on it everyday for 2 years. Take a look at some of the ENTRY LEVEL IT RESUMES via google. See how they format their resumes and elaborate on other works like school etc... Additionally, job search the entry level IT jobs in your target area. What are they asking for? Modify your resume to display what they are asking for. Most are stating help desk blah blah blah...A+ Certification and/or Microsoft Windows 7 certification.

ChildInTime

anhtran35 wrote: »

Skills by definition within a Hiring Manager eyes is do you have EXPERIENCE doing what you stated on your resume. If you don't. You don't list it. Taking a course on Windows Server 2012 is different from actually working on it everyday for 2 years. Take a look at some of the ENTRY LEVEL IT RESUMES via google. See how they format their resumes and elaborate on other works like school etc... Additionally, job search the entry level IT jobs in your target area. What are they asking for? Modify your resume to display what they are asking for. Most are stating help desk blah blah blah...A+ Certification and/or Microsoft Windows 7 certification.

But then take a look into Linkedin. It has section 'Skills' where you can select different skills. It does not say anything about how good you are at that skill, but you still mention certain skills.

Let's take for example C language. I had several courses in the University, I programmed C for fun myself, but did not produce anything for real world market, etc., and didn't have a job which required C. So I cannot list C language as a skill now even though I have decent programming skills in C?

anhtran35

You can list whatever. As long as you can state whatever you done that is satisfactory to the Hiring Manager. As long as he or she is satisfied with the answer you present then you can move to the next step. I have 10 years of IT experience and I can smell bull **** a mile away. I will question the skills present on your resume and if you say I did it in school I will ask you to elaborate. I've seen people put down Networking as a skill set and didn't even know what is a firewall. Hence preparation is the key when you dealing with questionnaires.

ChildInTime

I sent my resume to several companies for internship, but I am thinking, maybe I was supposed to also send motivational letter as well? I mean their websites didn't mention anything from what I've read..

anhtran35

Motivational letter? You mean a Cover Letter?

ChildInTime

anhtran35 wrote: »

Motivational letter? You mean a Cover Letter?

I think so yes.

ChildInTime

Update:

I got few offers for internship and going to have an interview next week. Now one company is more interesting for me because it is in security and other I would say is less interesting. But the other company pays more. And as a student, salary is big factor for me here.

I would like to know how to approach following things:

1. If company offers X salary and it would seem too low for me, should I say "other company is offering me Y, so it's not enough for me to stay here"? Of course I would say this only if I really mean it.

2. If the company asks the names of other companies I am considering for internship, should I tell them?

BlackBeret

I'm not sure where you are, but if you have a masters and are in the US you can always go government. I know for a fact you get on as an Army civilian employee in pentesting with a BS, CEH, and CISSP, no experience needed. Upgrade that BS to a MS and you're at the top of the list. As long as you can pass a clearance investigation you'll be good.

anhtran35

ChildInTime wrote: »

Update:

I got few offers for internship and going to have an interview next week. Now one company is more interesting for me because it is in security and other I would say is less interesting. But the other company pays more. And as a student, salary is big factor for me here.

I would like to know how to approach following things:

1. If company offers X salary and it would seem too low for me, should I say "other company is offering me Y, so it's not enough for me to stay here"? Of course I would say this only if I really mean it.

2. If the company asks the names of other companies I am considering for internship, should I tell them?

Inform them that you have a job offer from another company that has a higher salary. Ask them to match it. If they cannot, ask them to add additionally benefits that may make it match. Fully paid certifications, tuition reimbursement etc...

ChildInTime

BlackBeret wrote: »

I'm not sure where you are, but if you have a masters and are in the US you can always go government. I know for a fact you get on as an Army civilian employee in pentesting with a BS, CEH, and CISSP, no experience needed. Upgrade that BS to a MS and you're at the top of the list. As long as you can pass a clearance investigation you'll be good.

I am in Netherlands.

anhtran35 wrote: »

Inform them that you have a job offer from another company that has a higher salary. Ask them to match it. If they cannot, ask them to add additionally benefits that may make it match. Fully paid certifications, tuition reimbursement etc...

Ok, keep in mind it's internship so I can't be asking too much.

P.s. I also have been working last summer in clothing shop as an shop assistant just a summer job (folding clothes, advising customers). Is it good idea to also add this job to resume if it have absolutely nothing to do with technology?