Question about how to approach salary questions - My Scenario

taternuts666

I'm currently a systems engineer for a smaller MSP/ IT consulting firm in the midwest. I applied for a Systems Security Analyst position with a large medical clinic/ hospital group. I got a call from the manager and he set me up for an interview but actually told me he has a Senior Systems Security Analyst position that we would rather interview me for and to go ahead and apply for that before the interview.

The initial phone conversation went well and was very casual which was nice. In fact because it was so casual I didn't feel comfortable bringing up the topic of salary. I usually have no problem at all bringing this up because I'm usually called by someone in HR, recruiting, or an outside recruiter.

So I'm kind of going into the interview without any idea what type of salary is offered for this position but surely it will come up in the interview. What I'm worried about is if they ask me what my expected salary is (which I have one in mind) and that is lower than what the position pays then did I just screw myself out of some money?

Should I bring up the salary question before he has a chance to ask me?

Any advice is appreciated.

OfWolfAndMan

Don't even mention salary in the interview. If the question is posed, you'll have to mention something obviously, but don't bring it up unless necessary. Until an offer is made, talk about your interest in the position and within the company. You can negotiate once the offer is made.

networker050184

Ask them. I don't know why people dance around salary. You get paid to work. They know that, you know that. It's no secret. No way I'd wait all the way until an offer phase to talk salary. I won't even interview without a ball park figure.

I'd suggest you do some proper research and find out what you are worth and the going rate for similar positions. Ask for that and you should be int he right ball park. The only way you'll screw yourself out of any significant amount of money is by going in there completely unprepared and asking for a stupid number.

FloOz

I almost always discuss salary on the initial interview with the HR rep. I don't see a point in wasting anybody's time especially if the salary range is not something I'd switch jobs for.

taternuts666

Yea I always ask in the initial phone call and I always say "I just don't want to waste anyone's time if it won't be a fit". I was just a little thrown off I guess since the hiring manager called me directly and I didn't feel comfortable asking.

cyberguypr

Agree. Since I hate wasting other people's as well as my time, I never go to interviews without at least knowing the range of compensation for the position.

Nemowolf

Apparently experience in interviewing is a waste of time?

networker050184

It is a waste of everyone's time if you are never going to take the job to begin with.

aftereffector

TheFORCE posted a great link on here a couple of days ago. It's worth a read:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-answer-what-your-last-salary-liz-ryan?trk=tod-home-art-list-small_1

anhtran35

I would ask the salary. I went through 2 interviews until I found out the salary was extremely below expectations. Wasted my time, gas etc...

dave330i

Go to your favorite job search site to find out what's the salary range in your area for such position.

cyberguypr

Great article, must've missed it when it was posted here. That must be read by anyone looking for a new job. Make sure you read the comments where some people say that a candidate that hides his past salary comes across like a car dealer, a little sleazy. I'm sure he's a recruiter. Ha!

Anhtran35 exemplifies my point. Why take time out of your busy schedules, get all suited up, spend money on gas, parking, etc. just to realize the gig is not up to your expectations? Makes no sense to me. My time is extremely valuable and I respect other people's time. The only way I foresee walking into an interview without knowing salary may be if I'm absolutely desperate and willing to take anything that comes my way.

For those new to the market who want interview experience, there's a myriad of options that don't waste anyone's time such as asking a peer/friend/techexamer for help with a mock interview. Community entities, colleges, and others also provide this service, so there's really no reason to go on real interviews to gauge the market and what not.

IIIMaster

Sometimes you can find the company pay rate online or the HR rep should have given you a brief run down of the job with a numbers. If not you should ask. There is no use of burning time if everyone is not on the same page.

dave330i

aftereffector wrote: »

TheFORCE posted a great link on here a couple of days ago. It's worth a read:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-answer-what-your-last-salary-liz-ryan?trk=tod-home-art-list-small_1

Disagree with most everything written in that article. The only bit I agree with is that job seeker and employer are equal.

anhtran35

In the early days, I use to never ask about salary. Now I have job experience, certifications and degree. I don't want to waste my time and MONEY. Let me know up front the range and I'll let you know if I'm interested. The last thing you want to do is go to multiple interviews and get shocked at the initial offer and realize there is no way they can meet your salary expectations.

srabiee

dave330i wrote: »

Disagree with most everything written in that article.

Why do you disagree?

overthetop

had a recruiter call me about 2 weeks ago (more or less). In the first 3 minutes of the conversation I asked about the salary. I don't care what the job duties are, I don't care about the company, I don't care about what great opportunity you think this is, we are NOT going to talk on the phone for 35 minutes.............if the money is not right. She gave me the max she can do and she never heard from me again. ..and I am not looking for a job.

dave330i

srabiee wrote: »

Why do you disagree?

I don't consider my current salary information a big deal when interviewing. What's important to me is the future salary. I would switch jobs only if they meet my salary requirement. If they try to low ball based on my current salary, then they won't be hiring me.

srabiee

Why even give them the opportunity to low ball in the first place? I guess it would be a good way to weed out potential employers that have the capacity of providing low ball offers. But I would imagine that number is close to 100%.

The way I see it, providing them with your existing salary gives them the opportunity to simply add 5% to that number as their offer. If you ask for more at that point, they may try to accuse you of being greedy or difficult. I don't see anything positive that can result from a potential employer having this information. It's like playing a game of poker with the cards in your hand facing the wrong direction.

Here's something else to consider. Let's say you are interviewing for a sysadmin position where the former sysadmin put in his notice and quit. Would the potential employer provide you with the exact salary information of the former sysadmin if you asked for that information in an interview? Probably not, right? Why would they not divulge that information to you? Whatever those reasons are, why wouldn't that also apply in the opposite direction?

chickenlicken09

aftereffector wrote: »

TheFORCE posted a great link on here a couple of days ago. It's worth a read:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-answer-what-your-last-salary-liz-ryan?trk=tod-home-art-list-small_1

great article.

taternuts666

@eddo1 - I read that article last night. Definitely a good read and a good perspective on the situation.

@srabiee - You have a very good point in the last paragraph of your post.

I wish I would have asked when I had him on the phone but unfortunately it's too late now. It would be very tacky to all him back and say "Hey, you know that job interview on Monday? Yea, what's that gonna pay?"

networker050184

dave330i wrote: »

I don't consider my current salary information a big deal when interviewing. What's important to me is the future salary. I would switch jobs only if they meet my salary requirement. If they try to low ball based on my current salary, then they won't be hiring me.

Couldn't agree more. I don't want to work for a company that is going to try to cheap me out of every dollar they can. What happens when time for a raise comes around? No hiding your salary then!

srabiee wrote: »

Here's something else to consider. Let's say you are interviewing for a sysadmin position where the former sysadmin put in his notice and quit. Would the potential employer provide you with the exact salary information of the former sysadmin if you asked for that information in an interview? Probably not, right? Why would they not divulge that information to you? Whatever those reasons are, why wouldn't that also apply in the opposite direction?

Divulging someone else's personal payroll information is a bit different than divulging your own voluntarily. I think we can all see that is a clear difference. I've never had a company refuse to at least give a ball park figure which is perfectly acceptable.

BradleyHU

networker050184 wrote: »

Ask them. I don't know why people dance around salary. You get paid to work. They know that, you know that. It's no secret. No way I'd wait all the way until an offer phase to talk salary. I won't even interview without a ball park figure.

I'd suggest you do some proper research and find out what you are worth and the going rate for similar positions. Ask for that and you should be int he right ball park. The only way you'll screw yourself out of any significant amount of money is by going in there completely unprepared and asking for a stupid number.

basically!!! I don't accept interviews unless they're in my range of what i'm looking for. I'm not about to waste their time, and even more importantly, my time, going to interviews and not know how much they're paying.

BradleyHU

taternuts666 wrote: »

I wish I would have asked when I had him on the phone but unfortunately it's too late now. It would be very tacky to all him back and say "Hey, you know that job interview on Monday? Yea, what's that gonna pay?"

actually, that is what you should do. This way you can make sure you're not wasting your time. i've done that plenty of times.

dave330i

srabiee wrote: »

Why even give them the opportunity to low ball in the first place? I guess it would be a good way to weed out potential employers that have the capacity of providing low ball offers. But I would imagine that number is close to 100%.

They don't really have a chance to low ball. Here's my interview process:

1. Recruiter emails about an interesting job.
2. I reply back with my salary requirement.
3. If they can meet it, we keep talking. If they can't, end of talks.

If they try to low ball after step 3, then they've wasted my time and their time.

This is the advantage of discussing salary first. Them knowing your current salary is irrelevant.

taternuts666

@dave330i - I like your answer as it's very to-the-point. I have 4 interviews next week. Two of them I know exactly what they pay, one I asked and they didn't have a range in mind (small company), and then the one in the original post. Still kicking myself for not asking but definitely don't feel comfortable calling and asking now.

anhtran35

Well...the best thing for you do now is when they bring up your current salary is to LIE. Example: you make 50k currently. Tell them you make 60k. They ask what are you looking for. I'm looking for at least 65k, tuition and certification reimbursement etc. Have a number of what you deserve to get paid in your mind.

HailHogwash

networker050184 wrote: »

Divulging someone else's personal payroll information is a bit different than divulging your own voluntarily. I think we can all see that is a clear difference. I've never had a company refuse to at least give a ball park figure which is perfectly acceptable.

I would think voluntary goes both ways ..its not like your are asking them PII for the last sysadmin but rather the salary of the position and they can choose to tell you(they will not) same as you can choose to tell them .. no one is holding a gun to anyone's head here

Nemowolf

networker050184 wrote: »

It is a waste of everyone's time if you are never going to take the job to begin with.

I disagree. Many of us are not comfortable in interview situations because we only deal with them once or twice in maybe 2-5 years? I myself have only done one interview, for my current position, in the last year and one three years ago for my previous position. Can I retain the skills required for interviews sharpened when i have done them twice in a three year span?

For those of us who want to sharpen the skill of interviewing and getting some experience answering the random questions that interviewers ask it can be well worthwhile to go into an interview knowing its not a position you care about so your more comfortable with failing at the interview. The experience you get may indeed help you with the big, important interview you have a couple of weeks or months down the road. I would say spending some money on gas and a dry cleaner could be well worth not sweating it during the critical interview you want to succeed in.



That aside, I read the article and I think the thing they are stressing through the bits of advice is that your just as much interviewing the company as they are interviewing you. I don't both applying for or even talking to a recruiter because they often can't discuss information about their client. I won't interview if the company is not inline with the type of employer i am looking to move to. When a recruiter calls me, i tend to tell them that their client can't afford me only because what it would take to move from my Gov job to a contract is not within reason for 99% of companies. They get the point quickly that i'm not going to get gamed by their questions.

dave330i

Nemowolf wrote: »

I disagree. Many of us are not comfortable in interview situations because we only deal with them once or twice in maybe 2-5 years? I myself have only done one interview, for my current position, in the last year and one three years ago for my previous position. Can I retain the skills required for interviews sharpened when i have done them twice in a three year span?

It's only an interview, not rocket science. Just need to be confident, know your stuff and don't BS.

instant000

As a worker, my negotiation is for my wages.
As a business, their negotiation is for their profit.

Their perspective: If you can help them make more sales, good. If you can help them make more sales while costing less, better.


Even if I chose a job that I KNEW would be a step-back in pay, I'd STILL make sure that I knew the pay situation up front.

Why?

Mathematically, I still have bills to pay, like electricity, water, etc. Also, I want to stop working so hard one day, and if the job doesn't include a pension (less and less jobs nowadays include that), then I need extra money to set aside for when I won't be doing that work anymore.

Until I get to the point that I can sustain myself off my savings/investments, then I am motivated to seek higher and higher compensation.

Hope this helps.