Network Engineering and Information Security top entry level jobs

RemedympRemedymp Member Posts: 834 ■■■■□□□□□□
According to AOL Jobs, Network Engineer I and Information Security Analyst rank amongst the top entry level jobs. Link.

I guess this should give some members an idea of where they should be focusing.

Comments

  • ramrunner800ramrunner800 Member Posts: 238
    Neither of those is really an entry level job, but they are good goals to shoot for with a few years of experience. With luck and hard work you might even be able to get one right out of school.
    Currently Studying For: GXPN
  • Skynet9Skynet9 Member Posts: 83 ■■□□□□□□□□
    ^^^ I agree...Even though I have CCNA and in process of getting degree, I am having hard time looking for even an internship in networking. Most of these jobs require at-least 2-3 years experience. Searched everywhere...seems like there is no such thing as entry level network engineer.
  • xenzrxenzr Registered Users Posts: 2 ■□□□□□□□□□
    I don't have any cert in the first time, has working for a year in IT Sec, I think I' pretty good at the field although not advance yet in R&S
    can I try to get some sec cert without taking R&S?
  • fredrikjjfredrikjj Member Posts: 879
    Skynet9 wrote: »
    ^^^ I agree...Even though I have CCNA and in process of getting degree, I am having hard time looking for even an internship in networking. Most of these jobs require at-least 2-3 years experience. Searched everywhere...seems like there is no such thing as entry level network engineer.

    Isn't that true of all advanced work? The CCNA takes like 3 months or so to study for. Can I study software egineering for 3 months and then get an internship doing software engineering? Probably not, and if I did, it would probably be me just hanging out, and a chance for the company to market themselves to me as a future employer. Would you let someone that knows only the very basics of software touch your application? No, you study for years, write your own software (as part of college, open source projects, etc) and then you are employable to do actual work, hopefully.
  • Params7Params7 Member Posts: 254
    I don't know where they're getting their data from but its difficult as hell to get into networking. At least its been with me and I've got a Bachelor's, CCNA and 1.5yrs of technical help desk.

    (any vets here who know about entry/mid level positions, throw a bone my way plz God).
  • hurricane1091hurricane1091 Member Posts: 918 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Params7 wrote: »
    I don't know where they're getting their data from but its difficult as hell to get into networking. At least its been with me and I've got a Bachelor's, CCNA and 1.5yrs of technical help desk.

    (any vets here who know about entry/mid level positions, throw a bone my way plz God).

    I agree with this. I have 1.5 years of experience and a couple of CCNAs, and literally only ever heard back from one of the network engineer positions I applied to, and happened to get it. Really lucky and I'm aware of that. Worth the effort I put in ultimately but the notion of "get a CCNA and get a job" is just not true.
  • RemedympRemedymp Member Posts: 834 ■■■■□□□□□□
    but the notion of "get a CCNA and get a job" is just not true.

    That is promoted all over this forum (literarly). If someone is advised to start off with their Network+, it's quickly countered with "get your CCNA, Comptia is not worth it". Very bizzare.
  • TechGuru80TechGuru80 Member Posts: 1,539 ■■■■■□□□□□
    Remedymp wrote: »
    That is promoted all over this forum (literarly). If someone is advised to start off with their Network+, it's quickly countered with "get your CCNA, Comptia is not worth it". Very bizzare.
    Cisco basically recommends getting your Network+ first because those people generally have a higher CCNA pass rate. A certification alone these days won't automatically land you a job but it is a good start. In several places I have seen people recommend knocking out MCSA / MCSE first, because those seem to get people at a minimum into a help desk spot. Ultimately you also have to show some type of thirst for knowledge and career advancement if you want to succeed.
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    Remedymp wrote: »
    That is promoted all over this forum (literarly). If someone is advised to start off with their Network+, it's quickly countered with "get your CCNA, Comptia is not worth it". Very bizzare.

    No.... no one here says get a CCNA you automatically get a job when it comes to CCNA vs. N+. You are misunderstanding. Neither alone is going to get you a job if you just walk up and hand someone your certificate. The CCNA is without a doubt the far more respected certification with more ROI though.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • docricedocrice Member Posts: 1,706 ■■■■■■■■■■
    A certification does not equal "qualified." Assuming the certification was achieved legitimately, being certified simply means a person may have some baseline knowledge and demonstrated interest in the subject matter. The application of that knowledge appropriate to an organization's goals is another thing entirely. Handling a live business environment with a ton of variables is a very different experience from reading a textbook and making configuration changes in a lab. It's much more messier in a real network with narrow maintenance windows, change-control, team coordination, and process.

    A seemingly minor change could potentially have unintended drastic downstream impact to the entire network, and having that foresight of potential change-impacts takes time to develop. Much of that doesn't necessarily come from being in a networking role, but rather a general IT environment where you can evaluate the variables at hand and gain a wider perspective. CCNA training by no means provides this. In many cases, we don't have the time to train an inexperienced person from the ground up. Everyone has projects/tasks/deadlines. This is why most networking folks start out in much lower level (non-networking) roles because it's a good test of communication skills, juggling multiple things at once, and mentally exercising complex issues.

    And to be frank, the CCNA is a very basic introduction to a much larger world of networking. It may seem difficult to study for but it's usually because networking concepts tend to be somewhat abstract at the beginning until things start to click in your mind.

    Information security is even more intensive. Much of infosec is about managing dynamically-evolving details, weighing the risks, and striking an appropriate balance. I have interviewed candidates who had the paper certs, but it was obvious that applying the knowledge practically wasn't something they had a good feel for. And it's not because they're not sharp, but rather because they don't have the requisite background to understand how things interoperate. There's a lot of mental tenacity and digging required. In most cases, you must be able to deliver results at speed. If you can't figure it out on your own (at least to a certain level), you're not ready.

    As an infosec professional myself, I'll be blunt: in many ways, certifications don't mean a damn thing as a job qualifier. Many others in infosec feel this way. I wouldn't hire myself for roles in areas that I'm supposedly certified in. But having gone through training classes and reinforcing the knowledge through additional study to prep for an exam helps bake more ideas into me ... but without consistently applying those skills, the details will fade. Much of it has. What does differentiate some candidates are those who do their own homework, keep pushing, and demonstrate their execution and contribution potential through other means. You should be able to speak the language, understand the jargon, understand the common problems most businesses face and their perception of risk, and so on.

    I'm being a bit harsh for a reason. There seems to be a perception that being certified gets you a job. This is incorrect. It may enhance your chances of being interviewed, and in more rarer cases it could get you a job because they can hit a checkbox or two on the HR form. But when it comes to on-the-job performance, much of it has to do with the maturity of the individual and this is something that always takes time to grow. It's extremely rare that someone possess strong acumen at the beginning of their career to be business-effective without progressive experience in the trenches.
    Hopefully-useful stuff I've written: http://kimiushida.com/bitsandpieces/articles/
  • SpiegelSpiegel Taco Tuesday FLMember Posts: 304 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I recently landed a job as an IT Help Desk Analyst - Associate (think Tier 1 level) for a health organization. Even though it's an entry level position, the actual job duties is that of a Tier 2 tech. I originally wanted to apply for their networking department and learned (once I got the job in help desk) how tough it is to get in without prior experience. They require a CCNA cert but a CCNP is preferred. Also, they prefer to hire from within the company. My supervisor recommended his brother who has tons of experience working in a Data Center environment, has a bachelor's degree in IT, and several certs. Another similar candidate was hired over him because he already worked within the company. Point of the story is, a lot of companies prefer to hire from within because that candidate has been groomed to their standards and is well familiar with what the company expects. I'm in the fortunate position that this company that I work for promotes educations for their employees so that they may continue rising up the ranks or transfer to a different department of their choosing. My supervisor knows people in the networking department and told me to take my time with studies, get the necessary certs I need for the position, finish my A.S. in network engineering and once completed he would put in a good word for me to transfer over. I recommend others to go this route. Get your foot in the door of the place where you want to work for and work your way into the position that you want.
    Degree: WGU B.S. Network Operations and Security [In-Progress]
    Current Certs: A+ | N+ | S+ | MTA: OSF | CIW: SDA | ITIL: F | CCENT | CCNA R&S | CCNA
    Currently Working On: MD-100 Windows 10


    2020 Goals: MDAA [ ], LPI Linux Essentials [ ], Project+ [ ], Cloud Essentials+ [ ],
    Future Certs: CCNP Enterprise | CCNP Security
  • RemedympRemedymp Member Posts: 834 ■■■■□□□□□□
    No.... no one here says get a CCNA you automatically get a job when it comes to CCNA vs. N+. You are misunderstanding. Neither alone is going to get you a job if you just walk up and hand someone your certificate. The CCNA is without a doubt the far more respected certification with more ROI though.


    What purpose does a CCNA serve if the candidates experience is working retail at Best Buy?
  • DeathmageDeathmage Banned Posts: 2,496
    Remedymp wrote: »
    That is promoted all over this forum (literarly). If someone is advised to start off with their Network+, it's quickly countered with "get your CCNA, Comptia is not worth it". Very bizzare.

    CompTIA Network + = vendor neutral, large area of coverage, networking basics.

    Cisco CCENT/CCNA = vendor specific, more intermediate networking basics, large area of coverage for Cisco focused knowledge. Principles can be reverse engineered to other vendors with finesse.
  • kurosaki00kurosaki00 Member Posts: 973
    Remedymp wrote: »
    That is promoted all over this forum (literarly). If someone is advised to start off with their Network+, it's quickly countered with "get your CCNA, Comptia is not worth it". Very bizzare.


    I think what usually is said in here is that if you got a solid network/technology foundation (you know, the basics, printers, what is tcp/ip, ping, icmp, arp, traceroute, etc) then skip N+ and go for CCNA.
    If the person does not, N+ is a great certification to start with.

    About the thread --> NetEng is definitely not an entry level position. In some companies it will be the highest network position available, in some it will have several levels. But for sure, not entry level.
    meh
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    Remedymp wrote: »
    What purpose does a CCNA serve if the candidates experience is working retail at Best Buy?

    The same purpose any other entry level certification does. To show a baseline knowledge of the fundamentals. We aren't talking the CCIE here.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • RemedympRemedymp Member Posts: 834 ■■■■□□□□□□
    The same purpose any other entry level certification does. To show a baseline knowledge of the fundamentals. We aren't talking the CCIE here.

    From Cisco;
    CCNA Routing and Switching is for Network Specialists, Network Administrators, and Network Support Engineers with 1-3 years of experience. The CCNA Routing and Switching validates the ability to install, configure, operate, and troubleshoot medium-size routed and switched networks.

    Entry level candidates?

  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    Yes the CCNA is entry level. It's certainly not an advanced level certification that is for sure.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • GreaterNinjaGreaterNinja Member Posts: 271
    Yes the CCNA is entry level. It's certainly not an advanced level certification that is for sure.

    My GF landed a network engineer job with CCNA, B.S. CIS, A+, 2-3 years part-time school job - IT experience @ age 22. Pay was a little over 100k/yr.



    Social Job Networking, Great attitude, team player mentality, a bachelors degree, some experience, and the willingness to learn can get you there.

    Unfortunately for myself, I did not start to break 6 figure until my 14th year in IT... it took quite a while.
  • hurricane1091hurricane1091 Member Posts: 918 ■■■■□□□□□□
    My GF landed a network engineer job with CCNA, B.S. CIS, A+, 2-3 years part-time school job - IT experience @ age 22. Pay was a little over 100k/yr.



    Social Job Networking, Great attitude, team player mentality, a bachelors degree, some experience, and the willingness to learn can get you there.

    Unfortunately for myself, I did not start to break 6 figure until my 14th year in IT... it took quite a while.

    Wow, that's amazing. I'm 23, have a couple of CCNAs and 2 A.S. degrees (in WGU for a BS) and a year of experience, and have a network engineer job. Not nearly as much money though but I honestly don't think I deserve a dime more than I get since this is really a learning experience for me, and they bring more to my table than I bring to their table I feel like.
  • PupilPupil Member Posts: 168
    My GF landed a network engineer job with CCNA, B.S. CIS, A+, 2-3 years part-time school job - IT experience @ age 22. Pay was a little over 100k/yr.



    Social Job Networking, Great attitude, team player mentality, a bachelors degree, some experience, and the willingness to learn can get you there.

    Unfortunately for myself, I did not start to break 6 figure until my 14th year in IT... it took quite a while.

    What city if you don't mind me asking? Cost of living varies drastically across the US.
  • adam220891adam220891 Member Posts: 164
    My GF landed a network engineer job with CCNA, B.S. CIS, A+, 2-3 years part-time school job - IT experience @ age 22. Pay was a little over 100k/yr.



    Social Job Networking, Great attitude, team player mentality, a bachelors degree, some experience, and the willingness to learn can get you there.

    Unfortunately for myself, I did not start to break 6 figure until my 14th year in IT... it took quite a while.

    She's either very attractive and/or you aren't talking USD.

    It takes years of practical experience to gain the confidence, intuition, and technical expertise to be a true network engineer. You can't get it from a book or on the help desk. Given her credentials, I can't see how she adds $100k worth of value to her team. That money gets you a CCIE with years of experience in many areas of the country.
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