Interesting article on "millennials" (x-post from reddit)

--chris--

Millennials want a work-life balance. Their bosses just don

Basically says my generation is more willing to take lower wages and defer promotions to keep the work life balance their parents generation did not have.

I echo most of the comments on Reddit, my dad worked 60-70 hours a week almost my entire life. He spent a lot of time at home simply recovering & resting. I am thankful for what that provided me and I am sure he would do it again, but I always felt like it took to much out of him and I have been careful about making moves like that in my own life.

I never really knew this was a common thing in my generation until I seen this post, I thought I would share it.

Fulcrum45

While I'm not a Millennial (I think I'm a GenY of GenX'er) I agree whole heartedly. I work to live, not the other way around. On my deathbed I will never say "If only I put in more overtime..."

Just did a quick search- looks like I'm Gen X

NetworkNewb

I am definitely for a work/life balance. But complaining about it early in your career and when you are single is just sounds lazy. Or you don't have much drive to succeed. I'm not talking even working 60 hours a week or anything crazy so you are working all the time. I wouldn't take a job where I worked that much. This article just sounds like he (Shaw) is going to complain about anything over 40 hrs/week. Good luck to Shaw in finding a company that wants a young employee that doesn't want to work hard to succeed and grow. Damn young wipper snappers....

(I'm only 30, I like to think in my head that is still young)

the_Grinch

I can agree with this. Why should you work yourself to death for an organization who could care nothing about you? I laugh because I am a bit of a job hopper and people often ask why I don't stay anywhere? My reply is, why would I? Everywhere I have worked there hasn't been any chance of promotion and the raises (if any) were just about nothing. If an organization has no loyalty to me, why do they feel they are entitled to any in return? I'm especially happy that I now have a solid six years of full time experience behind me because the phrase "you should be happy to have a job in this economy" no longer applies to me. I could leave right now and have a job the next day.

I'll make a prediction and say in the next 5 to 10 years everyone is going to be a contractor. You might have a few core people who work for a company (more then likely started by them or a team they were with) and the rest will be hired on contract. Medical? Affordable Health Care Act covers that. Retirement? Pensions are dead and just about everyone is utilizing a 401k at this point. With all that why be a full time employee anywhere? Get a higher wage as a contractor and control your own future.

NetworkNewb

I know contracts are negotiable but when I contracted I didn't get any PTO, holiday pay, 401k matching, bonuses, or paid training. Hell, my wife gets her vehicle (not a business use car, a personal car, she works in HR) and car insurance on it paid for too.

Or how about disability or maternity leaves

I know I didn't like being contractor when I did it.

the_Grinch

Besides the time off and the pension I get nothing (I got two training courses, but it was a fluke). No training, no bonuses, no promotions, no overtime, and no tuition assistance. Obviously every place is different, but the best I found in six years was a company who would pay for the certification (not the training).

--chris--

I agree with you there. I think the key is flexibility. If I work 60 hours this week and have two high stress projects, Id like to be able to take a day off in 2-3 weeks and have a nice 3 day weekend without interruptions from work.

Its a lot like a personal relations; give & take...compromising...etc..

What I got from this article is my/our generation is less willing to "kill" themselves to impress their employer or devote half of their life to one employer where there is little reciprocation. I do fear that may come off as laziness though now that you point it out.

dave330i

--chris-- wrote: »

I do fear that may come off as laziness though now that you point it out.

Based on the article, I get the feeling of "Play now and don't care about the future."

dave330i

the_Grinch wrote: »

Besides the time off and the pension I get nothing (I got two training courses, but it was a fluke). No training, no bonuses, no promotions, no overtime, and no tuition assistance. Obviously every place is different, but the best I found in six years was a company who would pay for the certification (not the training).

All my contracts had full benefits. The only thing they didn't have was severance.

rebelution

I tend to agree with the article as well. I'm 30, just had my first kid about 9 months ago, and I want to spend as much time with him as I can. Growing up, both of my parents were working many "extra" hours every week just to support our family and they definitely missed out on a lot of things/events in mine and my sisters lives. I always told myself that I would never do that to my kids. In fact, that's the main reason I left my previous job about 3 months ago: 12+ hour days away from the house, on call every day and weekend. Now I'm only gone about 9 hours every day and no on call = more time in the morning with my son and more time at night with the family to do family things. I don't think it's that I'm lazy or not motivated to do well, I really just look at it like this: my family will always be there for me, my employer will drop me when the next best thing/better priced person comes along.

devils_haircut

I don't see any point in slaving away at a job when wages haven't budged since the 90's. I'd rather enjoy my free time, but then again, it's not like I have much choice. I'm 30, I have no savings, no 401k, no house, and I make just barely enough to live paycheck to paycheck. Most of the jobs in my area require experience for entry-level positions, and the senior positions go unfilled because...guess what? There aren't any jobs that are feeding into those positions anymore. Employers don't want to train, and in the next 5-10 years, I believe it's going to become an even bigger problem.

It's a great time to be senior-level in your field. It's a terrible time if you aren't.

Danielm7

dave330i wrote: »

All my contracts had full benefits. The only thing they didn't have was severance.

I'm currently a contractor, no benefits here at all. On the plus side I don't have to work more than 40 hours a week pretty much ever. If I do I just note the extra time and can use it later as billing for overtime without prior approval is a total pain. Overall it hasn't been bad at all, I started right before thanksgiving so it was annoying to have to make up the time for that, Christmas holiday, New Years, etc, but they were flexible. I'm likely going to go FTE at the same place within 6 months anyway and they have great benefits.

Actually, they will pay for some training which is nice.

NetworkNewb

rebelution wrote: »

I tend to agree with the article as well. I'm 30, just had my first kid about 9 months ago, and I want to spend as much time with him as I can. Growing up, both of my parents were working many "extra" hours every week just to support our family and they definitely missed out on a lot of things/events in mine and my sisters lives. I always told myself that I would never do that to my kids. In fact, that's the main reason I left my previous job about 3 months ago: 12+ hour days away from the house, on call every day and weekend. Now I'm only gone about 9 hours every day and no on call = more time in the morning with my son and more time at night with the family to do family things. I don't think it's that I'm lazy or not motivated to do well, I really just look at it like this: my family will always be there for me, my employer will drop me when the next best thing/better priced person comes along.

I agree with you, the person in the article was single and no kids. I don't agree with him :P


Edit: I'm in same boat as you. 30 and I just had first kid 4 months ago. Family >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Work

UnixGuy

I work 38 hrs a week, and I complain. In fact, I don't want to work 9-5 anymore, I don't want to spend my day in the office working. I should figure out a solution to this.

xenodamus

I'm a Gen-Y kid (30 this year), and while I try to maintain a work/life balance, I'm also going to do what it takes to get ahead.

I've gone through periods where I worked 2 jobs for a while - and searched until I found a promotion to replace both. I joined this forum 5 years ago while working 2 jobs to achieve an average income. I now work 1 job.....from home....for 3x the salary plus nice benefits.

All of that to say...my family comes first, but kicking butt at work is a close second.

snapdad

Some may think it is laziness, but I think millennials just value their free time a lot more than people did in the past. I'm not quite a millennial, but I know I do.

NetworkNewb

snapdad wrote: »

Some may think it is laziness, but I think millennials just value their free time a lot more than people did in the past. I'm not quite a millennial, but I know I do.

Yea, everyone likes more free time... Probably why younger generations are living with their parents longer and longer. Definitely easier to not do work. *cough* laziness *cough* I think a big part of it is younger generations are used to getting things easier and not having to work as hard. Not to mention all the crazy helicopter parents out there these days, which just teaches kids to become dependent on their parents.

anoeljr

Don't get me wrong, I do good at my job and try to provide value to the company I work for, but when I'm away from work I don't want to think about work. Time to yourself is time that you can't get back. Screw slaving away because when you die it won't matter how many hours you worked or how much money you made. Enjoy life people!

the_Grinch

I could give you examples of people from generations before mine who are just as lazy if not lazier then generation Y (I have an Uncle who hasn't had a legit job in about 40 years). I think any blanket statements saying one generation is better then another is for the most part stupid.

I can just about guarantee you that most people who have moved back with their parents didn't do so willing. It is very nice that the generations before X, Y, and millennials were able to attend college at a reasonable cost (or not go and still make a reasonable living), but that is no longer the case. My mother went to college for the very expensive tuition price of.....$100 a semester! Today $100 is either your application fee or the price you pay to hold your spot at school. The very school my mom attended for her undergrad is now $16000 a year. Also, the government for the most part funded their education in some way or another. Are your parents middle class? Well the best you'll get in the form of government aid for school is a federal student loan. More then likely it won't be enough to cover the full cost of tuition so you'll have to figure something else out.

Are there helicopter parents who do everything for the kids? Yup. Are there people in the millennial generation who are amounting to absolutely nothing? Yup. Are the above two facts true for past generations? Yup. My generation has a view of what our parents and grandparents went through. With that view we know where we don't want to end up. When I look back at my life I want to know I did the best I could and that I enjoyed it.

I work very hard and am one of the better people in my field. I didn't rest on my laurels and wait for things to magically happen. I said I want to be at x by y and did what was needed to get there.

NetworkNewb

WARNING: I'm going off topic

Yep, I know, there is excuse for everything. As someone who didn't have a father growing up, had to work while going to college and helped my mother pay her bills, and moved out on my own right after college(was just a small shitty apartment but it was mine), I have a hard time sympathizing with excuses people give on why they are relying and being dependent on their parents in their mid/late 20s these days. I'm only 30 so it is not like it was that long ago. (I had student loans too...)

And statistics keep showing an increase in ages people are living with/being dependent on their parents longer. That would be reasoning on me using the "laziness" comment. Of course there were plenty of lazy people previous generations as well though. I'm not even blaming it on the generation, I think our society that we have set up for our generations allows for people to become this way. Also, the way I'm using "lazy" is just my opinion. There are many people who think it's fine to have their 26 year old still being dependent on their parents. Just different views and how people look at things. I just think its lazy to still be at that age and its a fact that there is a greater percentage of people now doing it.

Btw, to comment about the original post, I'm not supporting working a **** ton of hours. Of course people shouldn't work their life away and spending time with actual people is more important than work. I just like debating side topics.

the_Grinch

As in most cases, seems we are agreeing in general

devils_haircut

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Probably why younger generations are living with their parents longer and longer.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I hear this comment a lot from people who somehow dodged the 2008 housing crisis and came out unscathed.

I'm old enough to know what the economy was like prior to then, but unfortunately I was leaving the military when the crisis hit, so I got to suffer through all the aftermath (that we're still living with now) despite being much older and not really a "millennial".

Buying a house today is next to impossible. Renting is 30-40% more expensive in my area than it was in the early 2000's, partly because landlords know that nobody can qualify for a home loan. Wages are stuck in the 1990's. Entry level jobs require experience. How are you supposed to move out of your parents' house in conditions like that?

I can't disagree with you completely on how sheltered and protected kids are today. I work in a public K-12 school. But I think there's a little more to it than that.

NetworkNewb

I want to say I bought my first house in 2009, so I would've dodged it. I believe it was one of the first years of the first-time home buyers tax credit, $8000 free money was pretty nice! And just upgraded and got new house last year.

LeBroke

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Yep, I know, there is excuse for everything. As someone who didn't have a father growing up, had to work while going to college and helped my mother pay her bills, and moved out on my own right after college(was just a small shitty apartment but it was mine), I have a hard time sympathizing with excuses people give on why they are relying and being dependent on their parents in their mid/late 20s these days. I'm only 30 so it is not like it was that long ago. (I had student loans too...)

And statistics keep showing an increase in ages people are living with/being dependent on their parents longer. That would be reasoning on me using the "laziness" comment. Of course there were plenty of lazy people previous generations as well though. I'm not even blaming it on the generation, I think our society that we have set up for our generations allows for people to become this way. Also, the way I'm using "lazy" is just my opinion. There are many people who think it's fine to have their 26 year old still being dependent on their parents. Just different views and how people look at things. I just think its lazy to still be at that age and its a fact that there is a greater percentage of people now doing it.

I'm struggling to find a place within a decent distance from work for $1,000, and I'm looking at 400 sq feet bachelors. I'm paying $650 now, but any price difference is wiped by a 2.5 hour commute, as well as gas + skytrain (metro) ticket costs. Might as well spend the same but live near work. If you paid off student loans by the time you're 30, that's awesome. But most people don't have that luxury. Hell, many are still struggling to make minimum payments in their late 20's. This is Canada, mind you - the US is much worse since the cost of education is close to double.

A lot of my friends are working decent jobs, and still live at home with their parents because they can't afford anything else. And there's less incentive to move out for the sake of moving out (especially since it'll force them to live paycheque to paycheque) when a lot of their friends still live at home too, and it means losing out on things like travel or eating out.

It's not how it's been set up by previous generations. It's the economic realities of life when a bachelors degree in whichever field will get you a $33-36k job (and that's assuming a non-stupid field), while loan payments are $500+, and rent for an OK place not too far from work/downtown is in the $1,000-1,400 range. Same story in Japan - people either live in literal closets (and not the Futurama ones), or with their parents, because those are the only places they can afford.

I want to say I bought my first house in 2009, so I would've dodged it. I believe it was one of the first years of the first-time home buyers tax credit, $8000 free money was pretty nice! And just upgraded and got new house last year.

That $8,000 will get you 1.5 months of mortgage payments in my area. An average detached house in my city hit $1M at the end of last year, and is now close to $1.067M or so after just several months.

Your two posts make me think you're in a really low cost of living area, or you've been making $100k+ for a few years.

W Stewart

NetworkNewb wrote: »

WARNING: I'm going off topic

Yep, I know, there is excuse for everything. As someone who didn't have a father growing up, had to work while going to college and helped my mother pay her bills, and moved out on my own right after college(was just a small shitty apartment but it was mine), I have a hard time sympathizing with excuses people give on why they are relying and being dependent on their parents in their mid/late 20s these days. I'm only 30 so it is not like it was that long ago. (I had student loans too...)

And statistics keep showing an increase in ages people are living with/being dependent on their parents longer. That would be reasoning on me using the "laziness" comment. Of course there were plenty of lazy people previous generations as well though. I'm not even blaming it on the generation, I think our society that we have set up for our generations allows for people to become this way. Also, the way I'm using "lazy" is just my opinion. There are many people who think it's fine to have their 26 year old still being dependent on their parents. Just different views and how people look at things. I just think its lazy to still be at that age and its a fact that there is a greater percentage of people now doing it.

Btw, to comment about the original post, I'm not supporting working a **** ton of hours. Of course people shouldn't work their life away and spending time with actual people is more important than work. I just like debating side topics.

I don't completely disagree but I would say you also have to look at the situation. It was obviously a lot more difficult to get out on your own during the economic recession and even afterwards a lot of the jobs gained were low waged and not really enough to make a living off of. And you'd also have to ask if those people living with their parents at older ages are people who would normally be living in a college dorm room but are instead living with their parents while going to college to save money. The real question is how many of these people are sitting at home and not working or going to school?

Thacker

No company I have previously worked for has ever respected a work life balance. It's always been 50+ hour weeks and constant talks or disappointments if you are unavailable.... on call every other week.. .etc. It's bullish and I hope it changes in the near future. With that said most of my positions have been incorrectly classified as exempt which screwed me out of overtime which I was unable to correct through legal means, but will be adamant about going forward with any future employer.

Work to live, not live to work.

NetworkNewb

I'm going with me being in a low cost of living area. A $1M house in my area would be a mansion! I definitely don't make a ton (yet anyways...)

The salary you said, 33k-36k, seems low and cost of an apartment probably a little more expensive from where I am, Minnesota. My wife works as well though, so we do have dual-incomes. Then there is daycare is insanely expensive, $300/week.

Does sound like it would be more difficult where you are living...

As far loan payments, I worked alot while going to college so that helped pay alot off.

bpenn

I work for a government contractor and they give full benefits as well as pay for certifications and school. Its a good deal, but after 3 years the contract is up for re bid and things can happen.

dave330i

Kids are expensive. Roof over your head is expensive. Retirement is expensive. Good luck with the work-life balance.

Some days it feels like we're raising a generation of grasshoppers.

LeBroke

NetworkNewb wrote: »

I'm going with me being in a low cost of living area. A $1M house in my area would be a mansion! I definitely don't make a ton (yet anyways...)

The salary you said, 33k-36k, seems low and cost of an apartment probably a little more expensive from where I am, Minnesota. My wife works as well though, so we do have dual-incomes.

33-36k is specific to cities with a large Chinese population in Canada. Culturally, it's seen as kids are "supposed to get office jobs or be useless peasants for the rest of their life." So, an accountant making 40k a year is a lot more respected in the Chinese community than a welder making 100k a year. This puts downward pressure on white collar jobs, so a lot of my friends basically get screwed, and not everyone can work construction.

It's so bad they're asking for bachelor's degrees in business and 2+ years experience for entry-level secretary (I mean, administrative assistant) jobs for $15/hour. Yes, it's the same thing as asking for an MCSE for an entry-level job, but point stands.

Honestly though, I think the biggest difference is having a girlfriend/wife. Double incomes are the shizz, considering that unless you have kids (daycare sucks in general), your expenses are maybe 30% higher in total (food, clothing, dates), but you share a lot of the big ones like rent/mortgage and car.