Price point for a position

N2ITN2IT Inactive Imported Users Posts: 7,483 ■■■■■■■■■■
Just wondering how the masses handle this. Do you predetermine a number that has to be met and if it's not you just walk?

I've really short changed myself in the past, going for low offers and it has killed me financially. When you have recruiters snickering and laughing about what you make and where your skills are at you know something is wrong.

I really enjoy the current position and can see myself spending another 18 months here but eventually I really need to hit that price point.

I should be at 90k all day and I'm well below that. It's embarrassing to be honest.

Just curious on how you manage this. Thanks
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Comments

  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Personal I have never bothered to much about the money. And thinking you "should be" at a particular figure is in my view a bad approach.

    Different companies will reward the same skill set very differently depending on how valuable it is to them and you can go running after money if that's what you want, but from experience how much people get paid has little to do with there skill set and how successful there career is.

    I set a low point, what's the minimum I will accept and this is mostly based on what i need to keep roof over my family and food in there mouths. Thankfully these days that figure is below most of the jobs I look at. After that its all about the position, am I going to enjoy work or not? because to me work is just a hobby that lets me live out side of work. I happen to love my job but my life out side work still comes first. I have done the jobs with more money, but didn't enjoy them, so chose to take a cut but have more fun :)
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  • TheFORCETheFORCE Senior Member Member Posts: 2,298 ■■■■■■■■□□
    N2IT wrote: »
    Just wondering how the masses handle this. Do you predetermine a number that has to be met and if it's not you just walk?

    I've really short changed myself in the past, going for low offers and it has killed me financially. When you have recruiters snickering and laughing about what you make and where your skills are at you know something is wrong.

    I really enjoy the current position and can see myself spending another 18 months here but eventually I really need to hit that price point.

    I should be at 90k all day and I'm well below that. It's embarrassing to be honest.

    Just curious on how you manage this. Thanks

    Why do you think you should be at the 90k range now? Is it because of your degree, your experience or your certs? What I did when searching for a new position was exactly that, looked at my area and searched for salary information to compare what where other people with the same experience and certs and degrees as me were making. Then I either went for the average or something close to the average to be competitive. I always sticked to the numbers according to the comparison though. Where are you located?
  • iBrokeITiBrokeIT GRID, GICSP, GCIP, GXPN, GPEN, GWAPT, GCFE, GCIA, GCIH, GSEC, CySA+, Sec+, eJPT Member Posts: 1,312 ■■■■■■■■■□
    N2IT wrote: »
    When you have recruiters snickering and laughing about what you make and where your skills are at you know something is wrong.

    That's your problem right there... why are you telling recruiters what you make?
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  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 2,091 ■■■■■■■■■■
    N2IT wrote: »
    Just wondering how the masses handle this. Do you predetermine a number that has to be met and if it's not you just walk?

    Yes. Compensation guaranteed in writing must meet my minimum number. This is presented to recruiter (internal or external) at the beginning.
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  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    dave330i wrote: »
    Yes. Compensation guaranteed in writing must meet my minimum number. This is presented to recruiter (internal or external) at the beginning.

    I think this is a good point, if you are worried about a price, then decided it right at the start and put it out there along with your CV. if your snapped up like a shot you know it might be a bit low, get no takers you know its a bit high. What you are worth varies between companies, got to find the company that you are both happy with the figure.
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • N2ITN2IT Inactive Imported Users Posts: 7,483 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Thanks for the follow ups.

    I am located in the mid west currently.

    I've done a lot of analysis and I am 85+ all day long with my skills. I'm setting my price point a lot higher next effort I go to. Only live once might as well get what you are worth.
  • techfiendtechfiend Member Posts: 1,481 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Unless you are in Chicago $90K is really comfortable living in the midwest. I can relate though I make diddly and looking to move on from my first job, it turned out being a heavy lifting sys admin position. Applying for jobs that would be 100-150% raise in the same role with typically fewer responsibilities with larger companies. Do you work for a SMB?

    I don't know if it's good advice or not but I've been told to go for the high end of the realistic range. If they like what they see they'll usually offer what they can. Unless you lowball yourself you usually don't get quite as much as you request. Size and focus of the company matters a lot too, if they are an SMB not focused on IT you'll likely get severely underpaid.
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  • philz1982philz1982 Member Posts: 978
    @N2IT you know how I feel about this. Heres an idea that I use. I look at indeed and type in each of my skills then on the left I click on the salary range and select the top range typically 160 - 220k. I look at the job type and skills needed. If you meet that then you need to switch roles and get that salary.

    If you are asked for your salary simply state that you signed a non disclosure agreement and you cannot disclose your salary. Tell them your range is x + 5 to 10 % this way when you get nego'd they end at your target salary.

    With your skills and experience you should be in the mid 100's so yes you have done a crappy job negotiating salary ( tough love brother).

    I know mid level architects start at 180 -220 in the midwest. I am at 160 right now so you could easily be in mid 100's.

    -Phil
  • N2ITN2IT Inactive Imported Users Posts: 7,483 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Philz excellent idea. I really do appreciate you following up, great idea.
  • JoJoCal19JoJoCal19 California Kid Mod Posts: 2,831 Mod
    I'm at the point in my career and income now where when a recruiter emails or calls, I tell them I am looking for $X amount and to see if that is within the range for the position. I'm not wasting my time anymore. And I agree with Philz, I say that I am not allowed to discuss current salary and bonus structure and leave it at that. For any position I've discussed where I know they will pay what I want, but they insist on knowing my salary or not moving forward, I state plainly and clearly "I do not and will not negotiate future salary based upon my current salary".
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  • joelsfoodjoelsfood Member Posts: 1,027 ■■■■■■□□□□
    My base when discussing a new job starts at current salary and current perks (100% wfh, 0 travel, etc). If they can't match the perks, they better increase the salary (not much in perks to increase, so going down is never an option)

    I definitely agree with others on not basing your salary negotiations off your current salary if you're low though. No reason to anyway, they have their space in the budget of X-Y dollars for that position, no reason to give them a number that might start you below X and save them money.

    Of course, all of this is dependent on you making yourself that valuable. Not just in actual skills/experience, but in perceived skills/experience when you submit your resume and sit down for that interview.
  • techfiendtechfiend Member Posts: 1,481 ■■■■□□□□□□
    NDA for an answer for current salary is a great idea and one I just used, thanks philz! The recruiter said they've never heard that before, frankly I'm surprised it's still legal to ask. The interview than became really serious and to the point, maybe I put a bit of pressure on her. The position has a very fancy title but almost entry level duties listed and they asked about salary right away. It would be my second job and first time having real negotiating power so I went 150% above what I'm making now, about what the salaries are of similar positions I've been applying for, and still came out below what they said the 'median salary' is. Knowing that, ya $100K+ is very achievable in the midwest even for mid level positions, if you find the right company.

    I feel kind of bad coming in low but I'd be ecstatic if I got it. I'm probably the least experienced of the candidates, do you think that low salary demand would improve my chances?
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  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 2,091 ■■■■■■■■■■
    techfiend wrote: »
    NDA for an answer for current salary is a great idea and one I just used, thanks philz!

    Interesting way to start a potential new employment; with a lie.
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  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    why is that a lie? A lie would be tellng them an incorrect price. This Clearly stating that you are not providing your current sallery and are expecting to be paid what you believe is a far price for your skills. Nothing wrong with that.
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • kiki162kiki162 Member Posts: 635 ■■■■■□□□□□
    It really depends on where you live, and what jobs are in the area. I've had two offers in the 90's this year alone and had to turn them down due to drive time, and my family schedule (at least for the next few years anyways).

    If I were you, I'd do some research on how to approach the salary question if it comes up. There's ways to get around those questions with some HR folks. Plus you have benefits, PTO, and so on to consider.
  • techfiendtechfiend Member Posts: 1,481 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I actually did sign an NDA with the current company about not releasing any company info, yada, yada, yada. Also there was a recent termination for discussing current salary with colleagues, it wasn't solely for that, but the last straw. For those that hire people, why is current salary asked for, can it really be useful?

    I've managed for a few companies in another field and never asked for current salary. It was on the applications, but rarely filled in and didn't have any effect on the decision. I've never given a current salary on an application and this is the first time I've been verbally asked.

    In the long run do you think saying something else like you don't want to give it out is a better idea when asked verbally?
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  • BlackBeretBlackBeret Member Posts: 684 ■■■■■□□□□□
    I was asked my current salary the other day and replied with the NDA statement, which is true. The guy laughed and said "What I mean is, what salary are you looking for?". Simple enough, he understood and was more than fair. Heck, every time a contract changes hands this comes up again and again. It seems that the winning company will offer a few thousand under what they think you're making now because they know you want to stay in your spot. To counter that about half the guys lie about their salary and end up with an increase, the others take a hit.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 2,091 ■■■■■■■■■■
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    why is that a lie? A lie would be tellng them an incorrect price. This Clearly stating that you are not providing your current sallery and are expecting to be paid what you believe is a far price for your skills. Nothing wrong with that.

    Do you have a NDA with your current employer regarding your salary?
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  • philz1982philz1982 Member Posts: 978
    dave330i wrote: »
    Interesting way to start a potential new employment; with a lie.
    Actually most employment contracts have an NDA around salary disclosure better check what you signed you may be in breach of contract...
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    Really if you have to hide, lie, be deceitful, whatever we want to call it, about your current salary to a potential employer to get a fair offer you probably don't want to work there anyway. I've never lied once, always been 100% upfront about my current and expected salary. If a company doesn't want to pay oh well. Plenty of jobs out there.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • philz1982philz1982 Member Posts: 978
    As to the question of salary. I've hired dozens of people. When you are running a P&L center you have to keep your non contra burden low.

    To do that you have a salary range and policy. If you know that someone is making 50k and your range is 38 to 62 then you look at 10% and offer 55k. This also depends on the benefit package and CoL adjustment.

    If you are making 50k in cali and move to Alabama I may offer you 45k plus a 4.5k moving allowance which is 10% of your salary. Any moving allowances are a direct hit on my P&L and fall under the general category of SG&A.

    Hope this helps.
  • philz1982philz1982 Member Posts: 978
    Really if you have to hide, lie, be deceitful, whatever we want to call it, about your current salary to a potential employer to get a fair offer you probably don't want to work there anyway. I've never lied once, always been 100% upfront about my current and expected salary. If a company doesn't want to pay oh well. Plenty of jobs out there.

    I don't know where this whole lying thing has come from, simply put according to the management institute 80+% of employee contracts specifically bar trade secrets of which salary is considered a competitive advanatage and thus a trade secret.
  • rsuttonrsutton Member Posts: 1,029 ■■■■■□□□□□
    I've always gone in to interviews knowing what I want to make and I've always been very upfront about it. In my 16 years at various jobs it has never let me down. More than once I have received more than I asked for. It doesn't matter if it's a recruiter or the employer, you should know what you are worth and ask for it; and then settle for nothing less.
  • philz1982philz1982 Member Posts: 978
    @Netoworker Sorry but current salary has no bearing in employment discussions unless you are following the traditional route of system tech 1 -> system tech 2 ect.

    Unfortunately following that path does not lead to wealth as it is meager 3-5% salary jumps.

    Develop interdisciplined skills around technology, general management, sales, and finance. You never know when an opportunity will come along requiring a tech skill with management or sales background. And when that op does come around your previous salary is no longer applicable.
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    You're right it has no bearing for any decent company to work for. There are obviously sleazy companies out there though that use this to base your salary on. Perfect way to weed those out.

    Nothing to do with wealth, or position, or skill. This is simply about salary negotiation weather you are making $20k or $200k. Obviously when you get higher up the chain you already know what you are doing. Not everyone is there yet though.
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  • techfiendtechfiend Member Posts: 1,481 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I can somewhat see it for (near) lateral moves, even though I think it should be outlawed to ask for it. It's another case of protecting the business over the employee.

    This particular position is at least a step up or maybe two for me. It seems a bit over my head but I'll gladly take on the challenge and I'd be working with people that I could learn from.
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  • Mike-MikeMike-Mike Member Posts: 1,860
    JoJoCal19 wrote: »
    I'm at the point in my career and income now where when a recruiter emails or calls, I tell them I am looking for $X amount and to see if that is within the range for the position. I'm not wasting my time anymore.


    This is what I do now. From the opening I say what I'm looking for. When I was younger/lower in my career I would take less for experience. But at this point I am happy where I am, so if I'm leaving it better pay a ton.

    I have never hid my current or past salary. I've had more than one company say they want salary verification. However I dont see my old salary as a barrier to my new salary. I dont even give a range anymore, I say an amount I need.

    It's definitely better to have a good job and good pay already. I realize that's not the case for others, and it wasn't always for me. But my last 2 roles have been with very large companies making good money. And I loved both jobs. So it allows me to be in the drivers seat, and have a take it or leave it attitude with recruiters.
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  • About7NarwhalAbout7Narwhal Member Posts: 761
    Mike-Mike wrote: »
    When I was younger/lower in my career I would take less for experience.

    I do this currently and it is killing me. I learned a lot at my current position and I used to love going to work. Now I am going through the motions, burned out with the ridiculous situations my employer keeps putting me in. I somehow feel cheated with my compensation vs the amount of work I do.

    Someone earlier said there are plenty of jobs if new companies cannot pay the requested amount but I don't see that in Knoxville. Trying to move from Desktop Support into a Jr. Admin position has proven harder than transitioning from my construction job into Information Technology.

    As for pay disclosure, maybe I just don't sit at the same level in my career as you folks or perhaps I am being unreasonable with my current pay (~30K) but I do find a huge disparity between what I get and what sources indicate I should make based on my skills. I would like to move into the 50k range but I have a considerable fear that disclosing my current salary would hinder my chances, not help them.
  • Mike-MikeMike-Mike Member Posts: 1,860
    As for pay disclosure, maybe I just don't sit at the same level in my career as you folks or perhaps I am being unreasonable with my current pay (~30K) but I do find a huge disparity between what I get and what sources indicate I should make based on my skills. I would like to move into the 50k range but I have a considerable fear that disclosing my current salary would hinder my chances, not help them.

    Unfortunately, I think you are right. Most companies will see you make 30k, then offer you 35k and think they are doing you a favor. In my experience it is hard to get them to jump 20k or more, unless you have a major milestone such as a degree.

    I am not in your area, but relatively close. The most I ever jumped was 17k.
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  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 2,091 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I would like to move into the 50k range but I have a considerable fear that disclosing my current salary would hinder my chances, not help them.

    If you have the skills & the certs in high demand technology, you can make large jumps in salary. I've made 20k, 50k & 60k jumps. Working in tech hotbed also helps.
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