On Call Compensation?

ecuadra

Hello everyone! Sorry if wrong forum area.


I have recently started my first real IT job two months ago and I love it. We are (were) a team of three supporting over 150 remote sites. We support a retail application for the stores.


Recently one of our ex co-workers got fired two weeks ago and that pushed me to be on call.


Our normal business hours are M-F 7AM - 6PM. Stores however can call at any time after 6pm and over the weekend.
I started on call Monday and have worked at least 1-2 hours in the evening answering calls with Friday being a bit more occupied.
Now today Saturday the calls have not stopped since about 8:30AM. At least 20 calls so far with 12 tickets opened an closed. Co worker says it stays busy like this until about 9pm...


Now I am on salary at 37k and will not get any compensation for on call.Since we are down to two people I will have to be on call every other week until we get a third one caught up and trained.


Is this normal and ok? I also do desktop support at headquarters and help stores setup Meraki MX60's.

kohr-ah

Are you salary and did your agreement you sign state no paid ot?

Otherwise usually they at least pay you OT

210mike

I'm sure I'm in a fortunate situation, but I'm on call about every 4th or 5th week or so. We get a not insignificant amount of money ($x00) as compensation for not being able to be more than 60 minutes away from the office and having to answer the phone 24/7 during the week. Any major time spent doing after hours on-call related work is comp time. If you put in 4 hours on a issue, you can come in after lunch, or take off early on Friday as comp time. The comp time thing is sort of an unwritten agreement within the group.

I will say I work for a company that takes good care of it's employees, values a work life balance, and realize this is not the norm at most companies.


edit: To address OP's situation, you're getting taken advantage of, this is not normal, it is not ok, and your employer is probably violating some form of labor law.

xD Lucas

Most federal and state laws require employers to pay OT, but it's not required in a small number of cases. You need to address it with your employer specifically. You're basically putting in 60 hours a week and getting paid for 40.

Mr. Meeseeks

@xD Lucas
If the OP is salary, and exempt.... he is not entitled to over-time pay.

OP- if you are exempt... talk to your manager to see if something can be worked out. If not, get out as soon as possible.

Mike-Mike

in my most recent position, you went on call for a week at a time, about every 4 weeks. Every day you were on call you got an extra $30 no matter what. If you were on call and actually got a call, you got OT pay for that work.

not getting paid for on call is bogus

Plantwiz

Mr. Meeseeks wrote: »

If the OP is salary, and exempt.... he is not entitled to over-time pay.

OP- if you are exempt... talk to your manager to see if something can be worked out. If not, get out as soon as possible.

Correct on the exempt vs. non-exempt.

I am always surprised by the number of people who immediately recommend that someone quit a job simply because they work some extra hours, weekends, evenings, or the like. How do you folks plan to get ahead? Certainly, some dialogue with the employer may be warranted, but I have never had any ill effects from putting some extra effort into my jobs, and all the time without bringing that up to my boss. Right around review time or bonus time, I would tend to see the payoff.

Too many folks are ready to jump ship too quickly. Might have something to do with the way job descriptions are now written when companies begin looking for new employees...they cannot trust who they hire to be with them.

Jobs are like marriage, you may not always get your way, but you did agree to it, the effort pays off in the end.

YMMV

alias454

I have to agree, exempt or not the OP is getting hosed. Where I work there is an oncall rotation for non-admins (admins are always on-call) and everyone who takes a rotation (it is mandatory unless you get someone to cover) gets paid $3.00 an hour, for every off hour hour. To put that in English; if your shift is 8-5, starting at 5 until 8 the next morning plus your hour lunch, you get $3.00 dollars per hour or $3 * 16 = $48.00 dollars for a weekday and $3 * 24 = $72.00 for a weekend.

HailHogwash

20+hrs of unpaid time per week doesnt sound like some extra hrs here and there etc.. sounds like highway robbery to me.

Plantwiz

The OP's situation is someone was fired/quit. So, it is likely temporary. Before even more fly off the handle, please pay attention to the part where I wrote about having some dialogue with the boss. That means one should go and speak about the details and such.

My point was that far too often the advice is the say 'screw the employer' prior to any discussion. This is business, one should not get emotional about it. Try it and gain some insight, have a discussion, renegotiating as things change. I have had decades worth of evenings, weekends and holidays to cover and never once has that been a bad decision...perhaps I just choose to work for good people?

Just remember those times when you did need to look for a new job because of a misunderstanding or responsibilities or a philosophical difference, how many simply just quit the job before having something else? How long did that new position take to locate? Discuss things first, my guess is this assignment will be short term until the employer finds a replacement. Take is slow.

Khaos1911

I definitely agree with Plantwitz. It feels like every time I read a post around here these days, no matter what the topic is in most cases, the answers are usually "Find a new job ASAP," "get your CCNA," or "go to WGU."

alias454

I think there was some timing issues with when I started to type my post and when I actually hit submit. I agree it isn't wise to go off half-cocked. You're right, talking with the boss/manager is the first step. I definitely wouldn't suggest quitting, especially if it is the OPs first "real IT" job. With that said, The OP has to protect themselves from being taken advantage of.

My first job in IT was working at a local mom and pop repair shop for free. I couldn't get a job any other way so I can appreciate the idea of putting your head down and working your tail off to gain the coveted moniker of experience.

Regards,

Ismaeljrp

Seems absurd if it's that much work while on-call, and for that kind of pay...

That being said, I think like plantwiz says don't jump to a drastic decision. Discuss with management, I'd try to get a feel of whether you will be compensated perhaps at a later time, maybe a bonus, or paid training something.

Then again, I have mixed feelings about unpaid work.

You, as an employee are providing a service to the employer. Your employer should always pay for that service. Business is business, time is money, service is service. I'll leave it at that, because I can get real philosophical with this subject.

HailHogwash

Ismaeljrp wrote: »

Seems absurd if it's that much work while on-call, and for that kind of pay...

That being said, I think like plantwiz says don't jump to a drastic decision. Discuss with management, I'd try to get a feel of whether you will be compensated perhaps at a later time, maybe a bonus, or paid training something.

Then again, I have mixed feelings about unpaid work.

You, as an employee are providing a service to the employer. Your employer should always pay for that service. Business is business, time is money, service is service. I'll leave it at that, because I can get real philosophical with this subject.

+1 ^
My thinking is more aligned with yours in this.

Mr. Meeseeks

@Plantwiz

Some extra hours is one thing. Extra hours since he started + now down a man is another thing.

We don't know all the details. Immediately jumping ship isnt a good thing, or even what i was implying. I just know that IT in retail + no indication from management on the plan going forward + what sounds to be highly understaffed department (150+ sites for 2 people!) = not a good situation. With his $37k salary, he is working @ $14.23 per hour... and that's not including the extra hours because they are down a person. With the extra workload now he is looking at just under $12 per hour.

GreaterNinja

There are Federal FLSA and IRS laws in regards to salary pay. Additionally, there are sometimes state and city laws that may apply. Federal law will always supersede city/state law...no matter what is on your contract.

FLSA: http://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e_computer.pdf

For example, I found out my previous employer was classifying hourly-paid employees as hourly exempt or salary employees when they made $16/$17/hour.
FLSA kicks people like this in the ass if they do not meet all the compensation tests.

Now getting back to your on-call. $37k/yr and no on-call pay....you should get comp time or comp pay.

LeBroke

Not going to say anything regarding compensation (I'm in Canada, so we have some weird laws... pretty sure you can work up to 80 hours a week free OT as long as you're a salary high technology worker), but..

I'm normally one for saying "jump ship and find something better," but this qualifies as something of an extenuating circumstance on the behalf of the employer. An employee really is gone, and if it looks like they're actually trying to fill the spot, give them the benefit of the doubt.

If you want to negotiate, try to get something out of it later (like extra pay or extra paid days off), but you don't necessarily need to bug out right now. Chances are, a few weeks later, the new guy will get all the ***** work that you're doing now.

markulous

Agreed that talking to your manager is the best bet here. I'd see how they can help.

For me to say quit and move on, I don't have enough information. If you've already milked this place for all you can and can get a nice raise somewhere else, then now may be a good time. Otherwise, I'd probably just try to power through it and see what your company can do to help you when you're putting in that many hours.

techML

Plantwiz wrote: »

Correct on the exempt vs. non-exempt.

I am always surprised by the number of people who immediately recommend that someone quit a job simply because they work some extra hours, weekends, evenings, or the like. How do you folks plan to get ahead? Certainly, some dialogue with the employer may be warranted, but I have never had any ill effects from putting some extra effort into my jobs, and all the time without bringing that up to my boss. Right around review time or bonus time, I would tend to see the payoff.

Too many folks are ready to jump ship too quickly. Might have something to do with the way job descriptions are now written when companies begin looking for new employees...they cannot trust who they hire to be with them.

Jobs are like marriage, you may not always get your way, but you did agree to it, the effort pays off in the end.

YMMV

Khaos1911 wrote: »

I definitely agree with Plantwitz. It feels like every time I read a post around here these days, no matter what the topic is in most cases, the answers are usually "Find a new job ASAP," "get your CCNA," or "go to WGU."

Both of these are so true. That's definitely all I see here.

OP, let me just give you my 2 cents. Getting ahead means getting the experience. Volunteer for things others won't do, do a weekend project, ect. That's how you gain experience. I feel like everyone here expects IT to be a 9-5. It's literally the farthest thing from 9-5, unless you wanna stay helpdesk your entire career.

210mike

techML wrote: »

Both of these are so true. That's definitely all I see here.

OP, let me just give you my 2 cents. Getting ahead means getting the experience. Volunteer for things others won't do, do a weekend project, ect. That's how you gain experience. I feel like everyone here expects IT to be a 9-5. It's literally the farthest thing from 9-5, unless you wanna stay helpdesk your entire career.

I'm going to strongly disagree with you. People that think these things are ok, are the reason that employers get away with abusing IT employees. Prior generations fought really hard for a 40 hour work week, and many of the other benefits and protections we still get to enjoy. I see too many young people throwing those away in the name of getting ahead, or getting experience. You can do those things without being taken advantage of. The sad thing is, the OP's company knows there's a whole bunch of "suckers" out there that will put up with their environment in the name of getting experience.

Like any business there are going to be good employers and bad employers. OP found a bad employer. He can stick with them, or go find a better employer.

IT in a proper organization can be very close to a 9-5 job. I think I've spent maybe 2 weekend days and 5 nights doing any kind of after hours work in the last year. When I do work out of hours I take comp time to balance things out. I've always made it clear that work life balance is important to me, and I've had no issues moving up in my career. I currently hold a Sr. level title, and earn the commensurate salary, all while only working 40 hours a week.

xD Lucas

210mike wrote: »

I'm going to strongly disagree with you. People that think these things are ok, are the reason that employers get away with abusing IT employees. Prior generations fought really hard for a 40 hour work week, and many of the other benefits and protections we still get to enjoy. I see too many young people throwing those away in the name of getting ahead, or getting experience. You can do those things without being taken advantage of. The sad thing is, the OP's company knows there's a whole bunch of "suckers" out there that will put up with their environment in the name of getting experience.

Like any business there are going to be good employers and bad employers. OP found a bad employer. He can stick with them, or go find a better employer.

IT in a proper organization can be very close to a 9-5 job. I think I've spent maybe 2 weekend days and 5 nights doing any kind of after hours work in the last year. When I do work out of hours I take comp time to balance things out. I've always made it clear that work life balance is important to me, and I've had no issues moving up in my career. I currently hold a Sr. level title, and earn the commensurate salary, all while only working 40 hours a week.

You win the thread.

Seriously, don't be taken advantage of. An hour or two a week, fine. But, you're getting straight up used. I would speak with management, and be looking for another job.

Chitownjedi

Khaos1911 wrote: »

I definitely agree with Plantwitz. It feels like every time I read a post around here these days, no matter what the topic is in most cases, the answers are usually "Find a new job ASAP," "get your CCNA," or "go to WGU."

I guess good advise has a reoccurring theme

Thacker

Anyone advocating that the OP suck it up and deal with it, is absolutely nuts.

I'd wager pretty confidentially that OP is "exempt" but he is mis classified like 80% of the IT world. As an industry we should really be fighting back towards correct compensation for the amount of hours that are expected and fighting to make sure we are classified and paid correctly based on our job descriptions. Sure we make "better" than the average salary worker on average... but at the same time that is because our skills are more in demand and rarer than others as well.

If you're doing work, you should be getting paid for it. Period.

OfWolfAndMan

I am all for the hard work ethic, especially when I enjoy what I do (I take my work home with me all the time and don't mind!). At the same time though, there must be a balance, and I will say working a couple hours here and there won't hurt, but if this is a long term thing, then yes, you should begin looking elsewhere. Should you get paid more? I'm not disagreeing with that. Considering the punks trying to milk $15 for minimum wage in the US, I think you should push the envelope. If not pay, maybe a comp day, or something similar? I'm all for it, but at the same time I believe there is a threshold in which people believe what they're entitled to, and it is highly dependent on how they were raised, and how easily they were given things in their early life. Unfortunately, who does more work than others these days seems to be a somewhat subjective argument.