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SMB experience translating to enterprises

techfiend

I'm currently getting some good experience at an SMB with migrations, administrating and such. I've been told by two recruiters lately SMB experience doesn't really translate to Enterprise and that I'd have to start at Help Desk. Is this really true or are they blowing smoke?

I can understand how a simple SMB environment pales in comparison to a complex enterprise, especially in networking. In systems aren't the responsibilities basically the same just on a larger scale? I've asked if setting up clusters at an SMB would be good experience and it was basically irrelevant to get into an enterprise role.

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Comments

Danielm7

I've been on both sides of that fence, I think it really depends on how the infrastructure is setup on either side. If by SMB you mean a 12 person company sharing files from an off the shelf NAS over wifi and using gmail, then yes, it won't translate to a large enterprise very well. If you mean SMB like 200 people where you virtualize and automate everything, push patches and software deployments and are administering Exchange, a windows AD domain, etc, then sure, that totally translates to a large enterprise and no way I'd take a helpdesk role after that.

If you're asking specifically about networking, it's hard to duplicate a very complex network on a really small scale day to day. With that in mind, my current position is on a MUCH larger network than ever every dealt with before, and all the basics still apply. Routing is much more complex, but it's still routing, DNS is still blamed for everything, but to be fair, I'm not in the network dept either but as security I deal with them almost constantly.

techfiend

I'm talking systems which I think of as mainly just on a larger scale as compared to networks which I could see being very different. I'm in a multi-site environment with about 50 end users and 10 servers. The servers are virtualized and I'm pushing patches, deploying, office 365, backing up, administering AD, group policy, esxi and potentially going to setup failover clustering.

I was just told today by one of these two recruiters that a desktop support role deploying workstations and some ad was above my skillset. It's something I've done plenty of and kind of bored by it now that I spend most of my time on servers. They are really nice and willing to work with me but I'm on the verge of just telling them to pound sand because they don't seem to understand my skillset.

gespenstern

I wouldn't say it's about technology. In every enterprise you can find plenty of dumbasses who don't know their sh!t. So I'd say technology boils down to certs and ability to answer interview questions. After all, everyone can set up a lab with ADDS and MS Exchange and a VMware/Hyper-V cluster via iSCSI at home. So tell those recruiters to fvck off with their opinions.

However, that is it only if they talk about technology.

Where difference really lies is a mindset. Typical SMB guy, even a smart one and capable of passing a harsh interview, often lacks patience and scrutiny of enterprise level. Action that takes you five minutes in SMB will take you five days in enterprise. Because before pressing 'enter' or clicking 'okay' you have to think not twice, but tens of times. And preferably go to your manager a couple of times to make sure that everybody understands all the implications, have several meetings with other team's members to communicate possible issues. A single failure in enterprise will put a death mark on you, because costs of failures in enterprise are tremendous.

Plus, change management, ITIL crap, etc. You have to know it and be able to pass interviews on that.

But again, you have to be slow, you should leave your 'cowboy' approach in SMB and never ever do anything spontaneous in enterprise. It's much more important not to do a wrong thing than to do even a ton of right things in enterprise. You have to develop a very reserved mindset, IMO

techfiend

You raise a good point gespenstern and one I've never really thought of. While I am very careful when it comes to things and I haven't made any mistake that has costed my current employer money. Just a few very minor workstation issues where I forgot to do something. I was given admin rights out of the gate at my current employer and I could have done a ton of damage in a few minutes, does that count for anything? I guess the only way to show it is that I'm still employed?

Is it typical for an enterprise to give you admin rights out of the gate? That seems like a very big risk to take.

I do have somewhat of an intense 'get it done' attitude but I really do think ahead before doing things, it just takes me a below average amount of time. This can come across as impatient but it's not, it's my character. I can think of a few times where this has saved an employer a significant amount of money. In my previous career, auto mechanics, it was also a pretty crucial skill to have, especially in management.

networker050184

I think what most places are concerned about with hiring people from small environments is mostly around what gespenstern pointed out. Change control and the whole corporate nonsense of working in a large controlled environment. It's one thing to set up and support a sever in a small company that if it goes down someone might get upset, you might get chewed, whatever, but it's another to mess up a large scale push that takes 1,000 servers down and costs the company millions of dollars. There is a whole different planning, testing, proof of concept, wide scale deployment strategy and mindset. Companies don't like people doing something for the first time on their live infrastructure. That's why experience is so highly valued in this field.

techfiend

Any recommended positions in that case?

Going from smb systems to enterprise help desk seems like a big step backwards but maybe it's the way forward. I've noticed a lot of at least lateral movements from SMB to enterprise on resumes I've seen here. My goal eventually is a network architect with a security emphasis and an entry-level noc position I'd take because it's a step closer.

networker050184

You just have to convince someone to give you a shot. Either that or progressively larger environments.

gespenstern

techfiend wrote: »

I was given admin rights out of the gate at my current employer and I could have done a ton of damage in a few minutes, does that count for anything? I guess the only way to show it is that I'm still employed?

It counts, but the price is different. When you get your foot into enterprise you'll be watched and don't make any stupid mistake during this period. Like mistakenly sending an e-mail to a whole department instead of your team. And not talking through everything multiple times and not telling everyone in your team what you are up to. Double check and triple check everything. And of course do test/dev first, then QA, then prod. And sometimes in a lab before that, so overall it's four steps implementation if it's something complicated. No changes without going through full change management process. Old folks sometimes skip that, but for a newbie it will be unforgivable. The key here is to not make any mistakes.

techfiend wrote: »

Is it typical for an enterprise to give you admin rights out of the gate? That seems like a very big risk to take.

Well, for some it takes several months, others give you some control even later. Plus, in enterprise, it's usually heavy RBAC-based, so you will be gradually placed into different security groups with more and more rights. Nobody's going to give you domain admin rights right away. Usually you do nothing for a couple of weeks but read procedures/processes/policies/standards. Than you show that you can follow some process down to a T even if it's dumb. You'll have opportunity to change it later when you gain some trust and respect. Gradually complexity of your tasks will rise and eventually, say, after 10-20 years or so, lol, you'll be granted domain admin rights, provided that you haven't made a single mistake and was 100% proficient.

I maybe too tough on that, but really, it would be beneficial for you to be extremely overcautious at first... And don't criticize people and processes for being slow, like, provisioning a typical VM in a week. People may think that you aren't about following change management processes, getting approvals, etc.

techfiend

Increasing in environment size is an interesting route. I wonder if that would take longer to climb than jumping to an enterprise help desk. I'd probably be happier with the more advanced responsibilities but I don't want to be stuck as the only IT guy at an SMB which I basically am now during my shift.

While I was cautious when I started, I've learned to become even more cautious and regularly lab changes before applying them. I wonder if this belongs on a resume. In an enterprise I'd imagine there are other admins that can be leaned on if you aren't quite sure, I'm really missing something like that right now. I've also learned to take tiny steps in production, something I wasn't doing when I started. These could be major reasons why years of experience is a focus in the field, one thing that's hurting my resume.

Danielm7

techfiend wrote: »

Any recommended positions in that case?

I would just keep interviewing. Just because 2 recruiters told you something doesn't mean you have to accept that and give up. You aren't going to get a systems engineer role in a huge company, but at least something like a lower level sysadmin might work out well. You have to sell yourself in the interview more than someone who has worked at (insert any huge corp here) but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

To each their own, but I wouldn't go from a JOAT role to first level helpdesk personally.