Salary Negotiation

adam220891

All,

I need some input. I recently made it to the final stages of two interview processes. One of these, I provided a salary range of 55k-60k in the interview. I initially applied via emailing a resume, and was later invited to fill out an online application. I may have put 55k, I do not recall (it may not have even asked).

Anyway, HR offered 55k, and I responded via email (our primary form of communication) requesting closer to 60k as 55k was the bottom of the provided range. I also asked about PTO, 401k, etc.

She replied basically stating that she apologized for the confusion but I asked for 55k and that was more than I was making now (by $20k+). However, they would up it to $57k.

Two questions:
-Did I piss off HR and is this a bad start?
-Did I just significantly increase expectations for only a slight benefit?

This is definitely a vertical move and there will be a learning curve. I made that clear in the second interview and they suggested it would take 3-6 months to get comfortable. The previous person was given 18 months and could just not troubleshoot on the fly when things did not go according to the book and often would make changes during business hours that had bad consequences.

I have always read not negotiating is bad, so I didn't want to miss out this time. If they stayed at 55k, I'd have been happy still, so I figured no harm no foul in trying to get more. Now I'm wondering if my greed will backfire.

NetworkNewb

Not a bad start. Don't worry about it! My wife, who is a HR manager, says she gets countered offered on job offers more often than not. Pretty sure if you work in HR you almost expect it.

You got yourself $2k more a year. Congrats on the increase and new position!

guy9

I think you're first mistake was telling them (truthfully) how much you make. If I know someone is making 35K a year I know 40K and on will make them happy because thats a big increase. When they know they gave you a gigantic number already and you want an even more gigantic number its almost like your being greedy (because they know how much you make). I rarely if ever give (my correct) salary. I have always said no matter how low/high the salary someone will take the job. You next steps depending upon if you're desperate for the job or not. Remember its someone who applied who is being on rent for this month and will take the job for 52K

adam220891

Thanks for your feedback.

I guess I'm most nervous because I was already questioning my ability for this new job. I have 19 months experience in I.T. and as of late have done a lot of switch and firewall configurations. The new position will involve heavily around Cisco gear including Nexus switches (I've never touched one, only Catalysts), Cisco routers (we are all static at my environment, so changes have been easy), and ASAs (I am familiar with WatchGuard and SonicWALL). I've covered the dynamic routing and ASAs in the CCNA tests, but production networks are a whole different story.

Someone close seems to think I've just added more pressure to myself since a normal person would've just taken the offer, realizing they were getting a huge raise and being fortunate to get a chance taken on them. They also seemed understanding that there would be some learning curve for me (I was adamant about setting fair expectations and did not want them to think I knew more than I did; probably honest to a fault but that's how I am), so I guess it's almost like 'C'mon, really, you have to ask for more?'

I just couldn't resist asking for more, since I neglected to the first time and often wondered if that was a mistake.

I am definitely taking this position at 57k, and would've done it at 55k.

TLDR; Big leap in pay and responsibility; concerned that asking for more (and getting it) was a dumb move.

networker050184

You're fine. The whole point of this process is to work things like this out. You aren't the first or last to negotiate salary.

ratbuddy

guy9 wrote: »

I think you're first mistake was telling them (truthfully) how much you make. If I know someone is making 35K a year I know 40K and on will make them happy because thats a big increase.

Yeah, if you think 5k is enough to get me to jump ship, you're crazy. It'll take at least 20% (more if the market wage for the position is higher) unless you offer something very interesting in the way of benefits or advancement opportunities.

The_Expert

Rule #1 - never low ball yourself. Always ask for more... if they offer less, and you are comfortable with the offer. Go for it.

I recently went from making $50,000 to over $81,000. I asked for mid 70's, but was given more than I asked for. I think they valued my experience and everything else I brought to the table.

Now, if I would have only asked for $55,000 - I'm sure they would have gladly only given me that much.

pinkydapimp

You have learned a valuable lesson. When you give them a number or range, you will get the low side of that range. Never be the first to give a number.

Also never feel bad about asking for more. They usually assume you will. But also know when its time to ask for more and when its not. You got a 20k bump already and already gave them the 55k number so in that case, it was probably best to accept. But hey, you get that extra bump. Go ahead and accept the offer and enjoy the new role.

Shoe Box

I would say to always highside your numbers you give to them, because no matter what you say, they will try for the low end of the range. If your numbers are quite a bit higher than what you made before, and they lowball that number, then you end up still getting more than before and they think they got a better deal. So a win/win sort of situation.

They would never say "You know what, $55k isn't enough for you. Here, take $65k". You have to do that on your own!

That extra 2000 a year breaks down to almost 40 a week. Minus taxes, about 30 a week. Gas money!

slee335

The_Expert wrote: »

Rule #1 - never low ball yourself. Always ask for more... if they offer less, and you are comfortable with the offer. Go for it.

I recently went from making $50,000 to over $81,000. I asked for mid 70's, but was given more than I asked for. I think they valued my experience and everything else I brought to the table.

Now, if I would have only asked for $55,000 - I'm sure they would have gladly only given me that much.

congrats on that i never heard of a company giving more than what you ask for.

slee335

Shoe Box wrote: »

I would say to always highside your numbers you give to them, because no matter what you say, they will try for the low end of the range. If your numbers are quite a bit higher than what you made before, and they lowball that number, then you end up still getting more than before and they think they got a better deal. So a win/win sort of situation.

They would never say "You know what, $55k isn't enough for you. Here, take $65k". You have to do that on your own!

That extra 2000 a year breaks down to almost 40 a week. Minus taxes, about 30 a week. Gas money!

i'm in a similar situation 3 interview. on the 3 interview they asked about my salary expectation. i gave it to them i'm wondering if its too high for there range. some times i'm wondering if it was too little. they said they will get back to me. i would prefer to know the salary range in the beginning of the process but i heard if that happens the company is cheap

phantasm

adam220891 wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback.

I guess I'm most nervous because I was already questioning my ability for this new job. I have 19 months experience in I.T. and as of late have done a lot of switch and firewall configurations. The new position will involve heavily around Cisco gear including Nexus switches (I've never touched one, only Catalysts), Cisco routers (we are all static at my environment, so changes have been easy), and ASAs (I am familiar with WatchGuard and SonicWALL). I've covered the dynamic routing and ASAs in the CCNA tests, but production networks are a whole different story.

Someone close seems to think I've just added more pressure to myself since a normal person would've just taken the offer, realizing they were getting a huge raise and being fortunate to get a chance taken on them. They also seemed understanding that there would be some learning curve for me (I was adamant about setting fair expectations and did not want them to think I knew more than I did; probably honest to a fault but that's how I am), so I guess it's almost like 'C'mon, really, you have to ask for more?'

I just couldn't resist asking for more, since I neglected to the first time and often wondered if that was a mistake.

I am definitely taking this position at 57k, and would've done it at 55k.

TLDR; Big leap in pay and responsibility; concerned that asking for more (and getting it) was a dumb move.

Pick up a Nexus book. The syntax is different as is the licensing and feature set from IOS. There is a bit more to know and learn to run NX-OS effectively. As you progress in your career you'll learn a multitude of OS types. NX-OS, IOS-XE, IOS-XR, IOS, CatOS, EOS, JunOS, etc etc. It really is a mess after a while. Good luck to you!

srabiee

pinkydapimp wrote: »

You have learned a valuable lesson. When you give them a number or range, you will get the low side of that range.

^^^ This

goatama

So one other thing to consider when negotiating: how many other candidates are there and where do you fall in the ranking. This is something that can work in your favor if you can get the info. When I applied for my current job, it was just a shot in the dark. I didn't think they'd even call. Then they call and tell me I have to pass a technical exam before I get my interview. I was told there were a lot of "management types" that were applying and they were trying to weed them out. I went and took the test, thought I bombed about half of it, so I waited in the lobby thinking they were going to come and say "thanks, but no thanks". Instead I find out that I'm the only applicant that had gotten more than one question right (!!!) and they interviewed me. Long story somewhat shorter, I knew that I was the strongest candidate, so I asked for way more than I planned to just to see what they would say. They gave it to me without hesitation. Unfortunately I found out that I was at the top of the range for my position, so there's not very much I can do to get more.

But hey, it was 22k more than what I was already making and was a position I *really* wanted. So win/win. But yeah, if you can suss out where you stand on the ranking, you can generally successfully petition for more.

greg9891

Excellent Salary negotiations.............entering a similar situation my self with a job interview. Depending on how things Go I know that this conversation will eventually come up.

pinkydapimp

Now that i have learned to negotiate, i think Salary Negotiation is one of the most important things you can learn to help your career. It can literally mean the difference in 100s of thousands of dollars and also happiness in your role.

Blackout

adam220891 wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback.

I guess I'm most nervous because I was already questioning my ability for this new job. I have 19 months experience in I.T. and as of late have done a lot of switch and firewall configurations. The new position will involve heavily around Cisco gear including Nexus switches (I've never touched one, only Catalysts), Cisco routers (we are all static at my environment, so changes have been easy), and ASAs (I am familiar with WatchGuard and SonicWALL). I've covered the dynamic routing and ASAs in the CCNA tests, but production networks are a whole different story.

Someone close seems to think I've just added more pressure to myself since a normal person would've just taken the offer, realizing they were getting a huge raise and being fortunate to get a chance taken on them. They also seemed understanding that there would be some learning curve for me (I was adamant about setting fair expectations and did not want them to think I knew more than I did; probably honest to a fault but that's how I am), so I guess it's almost like 'C'mon, really, you have to ask for more?'

I just couldn't resist asking for more, since I neglected to the first time and often wondered if that was a mistake.

I am definitely taking this position at 57k, and would've done it at 55k.

TLDR; Big leap in pay and responsibility; concerned that asking for more (and getting it) was a dumb move.

Don't be nervous, most IT jobs your going to have to learn from the ground up when you get there. I used to get really nervous about a new job and its never as bad as I expected when I finally get there. You will be alright, do research, ask questions, build social relationships with your coworkers, a lot of people don't realize how important that last one is.

dave330i

guy9 wrote: »

I think you're first mistake was telling them (truthfully) how much you make.

Wish people would stop giving out this advice. Your past negotiation is irrelavent to your current negotiation.

bpenn

Salary negotiations go quite different in the defense contracting world. I think the only way to really negotiate your salary is to be a niche technology senior engineer with tons of experience. The last 3 jobs I interviewed for were at $60,000 and they would not budge on it. They told me straight up what to expect.

CCIE Wanna Be

I have a phone interview with a recruiter tomorrow and I am sure the salary question is bound to come up, I am so eloquent with my delivery when I say it to myself, but when I have to say it out loud I always fumble and it sounds weird coming out, it's as if I'm afraid to ask for what I want. I suspect it is always best to give a hard and fast number and not a range nor the "what ever is commensurate with my knowledge and experience" line, you IT Pros, any insight on how best to approach this?

Mow

Interesting article about a psychological trick when negotiating salary:Start a Salary Negotiation With a Ridiculous Request

coreyb80

I had a 2nd interview with a company yesterday and when the question was asked I told her that I'm looking for the most competitive salary possible. I had no problem giving them my current salary and I'm sure if I'm made an offer that I will counter to test the waters.

jeremywatts2005

Hey man it's all business. Every salary is negotiable no matter what a company says. If they really want you then they will pay you. I had a vertical move that paid $147K sitting on the table. It was a contract position and no benefits. I told the company I was contracting for that I was walking.

They came in lower than what I was making as a contractor with them and moving contract to contract is no big thing. I said goodbye and within the afternoon they called me back and moved the offer to 10 K more than I was making as a contractor. I gave up the 147K a yr as a contractor for a lower salary as a perm employee. Well worth it since I have vacation and other benefits which offsets the reduction in pay. People get ticked all the time on salary negotiations. The best negotiation though is when everyone walks out ticked off they did not get what they want because they had to give up something.

Shoe Box

I think the term "permanent employee" is kind of misleading, as the way things are these days, if the boss man wants you gone, you're gone, no matter if your temp or contract or permanent. If some executive has to choose between keeping you and getting a bigger bonus, guess what happens.

I have worked for many temp agencies in many contract assignments, and it is always very annoying to see everyone else get paid when a holiday comes around and I get nothing.

Temp agencies should be entirely banned from existing. Either hire me fully or not at all.

slee335

CCIE Wanna Be wrote: »

I have a phone interview with a recruiter tomorrow and I am sure the salary question is bound to come up, I am so eloquent with my delivery when I say it to myself, but when I have to say it out loud I always fumble and it sounds weird coming out, it's as if I'm afraid to ask for what I want. I suspect it is always best to give a hard and fast number and not a range nor the "what ever is commensurate with my knowledge and experience" line, you IT Pros, any insight on how best to approach this?

after talking to so many recruiter i don't have a problem giving them a high number. they just want to make sure they don't submit you for a lower paying job.

the real negotiation start when the company is interested in you and actually talk directly to the HR thats when you need to decide if the job is right for you and if you willing to let it go because they low ball you in hopes they come back with a better offer. its a game of chicken who blinks first. most importantly are you willing to reject the offer in hopes of getting more money.

slee335

update
after 3 interview the third ask about salary, a week later i get a email that they decided to go with a another candidate. I'm left wondering if i price myself out or someone better came along. i emailed back saying what i can do to improve my interview skills to get a feel what i did wrong. i thought i had it back to the drawing board. felt like i wasted 3 weeks. i mean the job wasn't technically what i wanted to do but it look like it had growth potential to move around and better hours than this NOC job. i guess i'm not too mad but getting rejected suck after going so far. i think it was salary but who knows. wish i knew the salary going into it probably save me time and heartache. only way to get better at interviewing is doing it i guess thats a plus.

i checked indeed.com where i applied it says its in 70 plus i asked for 75 didn't i price myself out i just suck

pinkydapimp

slee335 wrote: »

update
after 3 interview the third ask about salary, a week later i get a email that they decided to go with a another candidate. I'm left wondering if i price myself out or someone better came along. i emailed back saying what i can do to improve my interview skills to get a feel what i did wrong. i thought i had it back to the drawing board. felt like i wasted 3 weeks. i mean the job wasn't technically what i wanted to do but it look like it had growth potential to move around and better hours than this NOC job. i guess i'm not too mad but getting rejected suck after going so far. i think it was salary but who knows. wish i knew the salary going into it probably save me time and heartache. only way to get better at interviewing is doing it i guess thats a plus.

i checked indeed.com where i applied it says its in 70 plus i asked for 75 didn't i price myself out i just suck

This is why you dont throw out a number first unless that is truly the minimum you would work for or unless there is an offer on the table. If you truly wouldnt work for less than 75, then thats fine. But if you would have taken less, then its possible you priced yourself out by doing so.

slee335

its hard not to throw out a number when they ask you.

pinkydapimp

slee335 wrote: »

its hard not to throw out a number when they ask you.

Not in my experience. "Whats most important to me is finding a great company and the right role. Once i find that, then i am sure we can come to an agreement on the appropriate compensation." Make them make the offer. Plus, until i go through the entire interview process, i dont truly know how much i might want. Maybe the job is a PITA or has bad hours so i would need more to entice me to do it. Or, maybe it will give me great experience and i would be willing to take a little less for this role.

slee335

i actually tried that once the guy smiled and said good answer but we need a number lol haven't tried since

bpenn

slee335 wrote: »

i actually tried that once the guy smiled and said good answer but we need a number lol haven't tried since

I fell victim to this, as well. I COULD NOT continue with the interview until I gave them a sum. Needless to say, I decided to end the interview as I didn't like where it was going.