Rant: Recruiters, do you actually read my resume before contacting me?

wtrwlkr

So I've got my resume up on a few job boards. I'm not actively searching for a new position, but if the perfect opportunity comes along I won't turn it down.

I got an email today for an Info Assurance/Pen tester role. Here's a direct quote from said email:
*5-15 years' experience in IA Testing/IA Security Testing.
*One of the following certifications: CEH, GSNA, or CISA (preferred).
*Proven experience with security tools such as Nmap, Metasploit, Nexpose, Nessus, Kali Linux, etc., as well as other various commercial and self-developed tools.
*Strong knowledge of the Windows architecture and familiarity with Linux/Unix.
*Familiarity with Security Incident Response Techniques and Processes

You want to know how much of my ACTUAL resume aligns with these requirements? Approximately zero. Thing is, i'm really interested in branching out in the security field, but that's a couple of years and certs down the road. I get these people have quotas to fill and metrics to meet, but if you're contacting me about a position I don't even remotely qualify for, you're just wasting your time and, more importantly, mine.

scaredoftests

No, some don't read the resumes. Several times I have said, I think you have the wrong person here...

wtrwlkr

I want to send a snarky reply back to him, but I think i'll just bite my tongue and send him to the trash folder.

tpatt100

This is pretty common and I think they are just bulk mailing candidates with a really poor keyword program.

Shoe Box

I've had recruiters actually call me and talk about a job, then they start wanting me to go into detail on past jobs. I might tell them about one or two, but if they keep going I ask them if they read my resume, that's what it is for. Then I usually hang up.

Danielm7

I had one guy email me years ago saying he had a really hot position and needed to talk to me. I was actively looking at the time so I called him. The conversation went something like this:

Him: This is a great position and I think you'd be a perfect fit! It's for a SQL developer!
Me: Um, I've installed SQL, can run some queries but I'm in no way a SQL dev and my resume doesn't say anything about it either.
Him: Oh, you sure? I have lots of jobs for SQL devs, do you want to become one?

systemstech

wtrwlkr wrote: »

I want to send a snarky reply back to him, but I think i'll just bite my tongue and send him to the trash folder.

I've snarked back a few times. I use to write something like "Where in my resume does it look like I'd be a good fit?"

Now I just mark it as spam.

I remember I had one person reach out to me for a Windows Engineer position and say I don't have enough Linux experience. I was like "What?"

Robertf969

One of my LinkedIn contacts, a very experienced and successful Security guy who owns his own business got contacted by a recruiter to fill a roll as a biostatistics analyst. Needless to say he had to Google what it was. Somewhere there is a biostatistics analyst wondering what the heck a CISSP is.

Mow

I love the "great fit" emails that are actually to become an insurance sales rep. Huh?

systemstech

Mow wrote: »

I love the "great fit" emails that are actually to become an insurance sales rep. Huh?

LMAO. I had one for a lawyers assistant. I was like wtf?

Verities

wtrwlkr wrote: »

So I've got my resume up on a few job boards. I'm not actively searching for a new position, but if the perfect opportunity comes along I won't turn it down.

I got an email today for an Info Assurance/Pen tester role. Here's a direct quote from said email:
*5-15 years' experience in IA Testing/IA Security Testing.
*One of the following certifications: CEH, GSNA, or CISA (preferred).
*Proven experience with security tools such as Nmap, Metasploit, Nexpose, Nessus, Kali Linux, etc., as well as other various commercial and self-developed tools.
*Strong knowledge of the Windows architecture and familiarity with Linux/Unix.
*Familiarity with Security Incident Response Techniques and Processes

You want to know how much of my ACTUAL resume aligns with these requirements? Approximately zero. Thing is, i'm really interested in branching out in the security field, but that's a couple of years and certs down the road. I get these people have quotas to fill and metrics to meet, but if you're contacting me about a position I don't even remotely qualify for, you're just wasting your time and, more importantly, mine.

Every week on LinkedIn I get emails like this and its most likely from keyword searches. They're blanket emails they send to many people at once.

NetworkNewb

Meh, just send your resume back to him and go for it!

Funny video about someone explaining about applying for jobs without the experience they list:
Question: How Do You Get Enough Experience to Apply for Programming Jobs? | Eli the Computer Guy

iBrokeIT

Some of them like to take the "cast a wide net" philosophy to the extreme

... in which case they don't even warrant a response from me and go straight to the trash.

Fulcrum45

I had conversed with one 4 times over the past few days. He comes back and asks me if I have my CCNA. I'm thinking, "you have my resume, what's the deal?"

Never mind the fact that some of them are geographically challenged. Do you honestly thing I would commute 4 hours day for an extra $4k? Google maps is a pretty handy tool, please take 2 minutes and try it out.

srabiee

I had two crazy recruiter calls just today that I posted about in a different thread:

1) An Indian recruiter called regarding a "Windows Systems Engineer" position for a well-known company, informs me that he came across my resume on Monster, and asked me if I would be interested in hearing more. I informed him that I had already applied to that particular position on Indeed. He says, "Oh, you already applied for this position? When did you apply?" I informed him I applied on Sunday evening. He said something to the effect of, "okay sorry, if you directly applied with the client then sorry for the trouble, goodbye." <click>

Ok so he calls back 5 minutes later and says, "I made a mistake, you must have applied through my company on Indeed, that's how I had your information." Then starts trying to get my permission for him to represent me for the job application. I ask him to hold on one second, I need to check the job description on Indeed. He actually says "No, please, just trust me, you applied through my recruiting firm." I'm like wtf, and I again ask him to wait. I then navigate over to Indeed, click on the same link that I used to apply to the job on Sunday, and I am then transported to the well-known company's direct careers website. I inform the recruiter of this, and he starts laughing in a way like I thwarted his attempt to con me, and then says "Ok, ok, alright, sorry, goodbye." Obviously a predatory recruiter trying to pull a fast one.

Had another call today from a recruiter, this time an American woman, spent almost an hour on the phone with her. She was friendly enough, but when we got to discussions regarding targeted salary range for a Systems Engineer position with one of her clients, I informed her I was looking for right around median fair market value in Dallas for similar positions. I told her what that number was based on my research ($75K ~ $85K). She informs me that, although I am qualified for the position, I wouldn't be able to make that amount because I've been out of work for over a year (informed her I was working on my bachelors and masters), and that I would need to take a pay-cut of HALF the fair market value for about 2 years until I can "prove" myself once again. She suggested $35K for a Systems Engineer position with heavy VMware experience, and asked if I was still interested.

I basically told her "Look, either I'm qualified for the position or I'm not. If I'm not, then your client wouldn't hire me anyway. If I am, and I fully capable to fulfill the role, then why would I willingly let someone take advantage of me like this?" She disagreed with my outlook on the situation, and decided that I "wouldn't be a good fit." Apparently they don't want someone with self-esteem that can stand up for themselves and won't allow someone to take advantage of them.

systemstech

srabiee wrote: »

I had two crazy recruiter calls just today that I posted about in a different thread:

An Indian recruiter called regarding a "Windows Systems Engineer" position for a well-known company, informs me that he came across my resume on Monster, and asked me if I would be interested in hearing more. I informed him that I had already applied to that particular position on Indeed. He says, "Oh, you already applied for this position? When did you apply?" I informed him I applied on Sunday evening. He said something to the effect of, "okay sorry, if you directly applied with the client then sorry for the trouble, goodbye." <click> Ok so he calls back 5 minutes later and says, "I made a mistake, you must have applied through my company on Indeed, that's how I had your information." Then starts trying to get my permission for him to represent me for the job application. I ask him to hold on one second, I need to check the job description on Indeed. He actually says "No, please, just trust me, you applied through my recruiting firm." I'm like wtf, and I again ask him to wait. I then navigate over to Indeed, click on the same link that I used to apply to the job on Sunday, and I am then transported to the well-known company's direct careers website. I inform the recruiter of this, and he starts laughing in a way like I thwarted his attempt to con me, and then says "Ok, ok, alright, sorry, goodbye." Freaking predatory Indian recruiters man, trying to pull a fast one.

Had another call today from a recruiter, this time an American woman, spent almost an hour on the phone with her. She was friendly enough, but when we got to discussions regarding targeted salary range for a Systems Engineer position with one of her clients, I informed her I was looking for right around median fair market value in Dallas for similar positions. I told her what that number was based on my research ($75K ~ $85K). She informs me that, although I am qualified for the position, I wouldn't be able to make that amount because I've been out of work for over a year (informed her I was working on my bachelors and masters), and that I would need to take a pay-cut of HALF the fair market value for about 2 years until I can "prove" myself once again. She suggested $35K for a Systems Engineer position with heavy VMware experience, and asked if I was still interested. I basically told her "Look, either I'm qualified for the position or I'm not. If I'm not, then your client wouldn't hire me anyway. If I am, and I fully capable to fulfill the role, then why would I willingly let someone take advantage of me like this?" She disagreed with my outlook on the situation, and decided that I "wouldn't be a good fit." Apparently they don't want someone with self-esteem that can stand up for themselves and don't allow someone to take advantage of them. I had enough of that at my previous job here in WV, and vowed NEVER to let that **** happen again.

Good for you man. That sounds like complete crap to me. I love when people try to take advantage of you. They actually think they can con you into thinking you're worth less. These recruiters are a bunch of idiots sometimes.

Shoe Box

Ok so he calls back 5 minutes later and says, "I made a mistake, you must have applied through my company on Indeed, that's how I had your information." Then starts trying to get my permission for him to represent me for the job application. I ask him to hold on one second, I need to check the job description on Indeed.

Yeah, this reminds me, what is up with this whole "I must get your permission to represent you for this job" thing? I've had many recruiters tell me I needed to sign some form and email it back so they could represent me. I don't know if that means I can only apply to the job through them or not, but I signed the forms and then went right ahead and applied with other local agencies for the same job anyway, and/or applied for it directly myself. None of these recruiters ever called me back with a job offer once they had my permission to represent, anyhow.

I don't care which agency gets me the job, as long as my name is on the paycheck. I have no agency loyalty.

Fulcrum45

srabiee wrote: »

I inform the recruiter of this, and he starts laughing in a way like I thwarted his attempt to con me, and then says "Ok, ok, alright, sorry, goodbye." Obviously a predatory recruiter trying to pull a fast one.

Is this something I need to be aware of also? I wonder what they are trying to scam. I haven't had to look for too many IT jobs in the past but since I've been going full throttle with it the past few weeks I've been getting a lot of calls.

thomas_

Shoe Box wrote: »

Yeah, this reminds me, what is up with this whole "I must get your permission to represent you for this job" thing? I've had many recruiters tell me I needed to sign some form and email it back so they could represent me. I don't know if that means I can only apply to the job through them or not, but I signed the forms and then went right ahead and applied with other local agencies for the same job anyway, and/or applied for it directly myself. None of these recruiters ever called me back with a job offer once they had my permission to represent, anyhow.

I don't care which agency gets me the job, as long as my name is on the paycheck. I have no agency loyalty.

Often times companies use multiple recruiting firms to find candidates. You are giving them permission to submit you for that job. If more than one recruiting company submits you for the same position then there's the risk that the employer will automatically remove you from consideration because they don't want to deal with the issue of deciding what company to pay since you were submitted by more than one recruiting agency.

SpetsRepair

Not of a fan of most recruiters, although i think some of them have the capability of being outstanding businesses. Now the problem i have with some of them is I've been told to lie about certain things, they took my resume changed some things and added stuff in there that i told them i have no experience with. They are lying to their client if they choose to submit someone and when it comes interview time you really don't know what to say to their questions, some of these recruiting agencies are actually pretty good, where i don't like their business practices is if they can't really place you they will throw that resume in the dumb pile.

I once built a relationship with a pretty good recruiter, although they didn't place me anywhere i did get hired once by my own means. I decided just to let them know i found a job etc.. they started calling saying they want to know the place, his boss wants to know every manager i am working with etc.. They essentially tried to use me to give them information on this client i was working for in hopes of them getting closer to the company i was working for. Once i smelled what was going on i parted ways

OctalDump

You could just go along with it, maybe get an interview, ask them all the questions you want to know about working in security, be completely honest in the interview about where you are, where you want to be, and if they wonder why you are there explain that the recruiter thought you might be a match - "Did they not forward my resume through"?

CEH is relatively 'easy' test as far as security certs go, getting experience with Nmap/Nessus/Metasploit/Kali is something you can do at home. You might be closer than you think.

BradleyHU

Shoe Box wrote: »

I've had recruiters actually call me and talk about a job, then they start wanting me to go into detail on past jobs. I might tell them about one or two, but if they keep going I ask them if they read my resume, that's what it is for. Then I usually hang up.

I hate that....i'm like, you got it right on your screen...why are you asking me about it?

I get if they ask if it's your most current/up-to-date one, but don't ask me to go thru my resume if you've seen it already.

BradleyHU

Fulcrum45 wrote: »

I had conversed with one 4 times over the past few days. He comes back and asks me if I have my CCNA. I'm thinking, "you have my resume, what's the deal?"

Never mind the fact that some of them are geographically challenged. Do you honestly thing I would commute 4 hours day for an extra $4k? Google maps is a pretty handy tool, please take 2 minutes and try it out.

oh man...that is the worst!!! got these recruiters hitting me up for roles in WV, Montana, Mizzou, etc, when i'm in NYC...and nothing in my resume or job board profiles indicates I want to go to any of those locations. I'd relocate for the right money, and even then it would only be to London, DC, LA, or maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Boston...thats about it...

wolfinsheepsclothing

(Based on recent offers; no offense intended to those of you who are legitimate recruiters)


--Literally the first keyword that tangentially matches a job req

--The rest of the resume =

wtrwlkr

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not even going to bother to reply. The position is in DC, and I still have alittle over 6 months left on my overseas contract. Not even going to consider it. Srabiee, that's absolutely disgusting that the recruiter would willingly try to take advantage of you like that. Kudos for standing up for yourself.

NetworkingStudent

What is really fun is I would work with a recruiter for a month or two at one organization.
Then I would get a call from another recruiter from same organization.
They would have some jobs they think I might be interested in.
I would ask what happened to the first recruiter? He left
This happened a lot!! I guess there is high turn over in the recruiting world.

Crazy story
A recruiter had a job he thought I would be a good fit for.
The recruiter wanted me to come to his office.
I said well I was there 3 months ago for another job, and I met another recruiter.
He said he wanted me to come in, and meet him and his manager, so I did.
I met with the recruiter at the recruiter firm, and he then said he wanted to submit me for the job.
I said ok

I get a call from the recruiter saying the company wanted to meet me.
I said ok

I go to the company/client and all goes well.
Then the recruiter says they liked me and they wanted to do another interview, and this time his manager will meet me on site.
Well there is no manager from the recruiting firm, but I interviewed with someone else at the company.

I thought the interview well.
The recruiter called again and said they wanted to do another interview.
This time it was a phone interview.

The phone interview went ok.

Later on I talked to the recruiter and he said they went with other candidates.
He went on to say that this was a new client and they were trying to get some kind of contract with them.
He said he thought I did well.

OctalDump

NetworkingStudent wrote: »

I guess there is high turn over in the recruiting world.

Yeah, in this part of the world it is basically a sales job - they sell the job to you (the recruit) and sell you to the potential employer. They get paid commission, have quotas, all the rest of the insanity of the sales world. As the job market goes up, people get hired in to recruit, when the job market is soft, they fire the excess recruiters.

Training for tech recruiters is pretty hit and miss. Some places you are hired and fired before they get around to giving any training apart from "this is your desk, computer and phone".

But like all jobs high on commission, it's self selecting. If you are crap at selling, you don't tend to want to stay since you make more money shaking your behind at Deny's on a Friday night.

techfiend

I'm shocked a recruiting agency led to an interview in the twin cities, it never has for me. I'm at the point of ignoring all recruiters, I'm up to an average of about 10 calls/emails a day and just getting sick of it. Not worth spending an hour or more a day wasting time with them. I'd pull my resume from job boards but I've had some interesting interviews for unlisted positions via company recruiters. Has anyone completely ignored recruiters and did they eventually stop contacting you?

I've been asking recruiters if I'm in such 'high demand' why is it never leading to an interview? They really have no response but to say they'll try finding a good fit and are never heard from again. Even the ones I've worked with for a few weeks seem to flake out and never reply.

All of them come across as nice to begin with but I think the field is ruthless and it's time to start treating it as such. I had a recruiter earlier this week tell me numbers of potential employees are important to him. This makes me think it's not really about finding contractors but to gather as much information about you to get paid. They are getting very pushy too, never would I thought I'd be asked what companies did you interview with and who has the hiring manager. It's none of their business but kind of tough to say it in a nice way, especially when they continue to ask. I always thought recruiters wanted to get you a position so they get paid but I really have to rethink it. I wish I knew a recruiter for a recruiting agency well enough they'd be open to tell me everything about that industry.