CCNP R&S immediately following CCNA : R&S

Deathmage

Well I'm more tossed on my certifications it's crazy. I'm finalizing my CCNA : R&S study for a Oct. 24th attempt and will go every 2 weeks after until I pass....

With this being said I presume CCNP: R&S has overlap from CCNA : R&S, so my question is once I get CCNA could I honestly get Switch or Route done in 2 to 3 months time as well as doing the 70-410 exam from Microsoft?

I'd settle for CCNP, MCSA: 2012 and VCP6-DCV for 2016 if I felt it was smarter to stick with CCNP right after CCNA vs doing MCSA or VCP6-DCV and then doing CCNP.

Obviously I'll get them sooner or later. Microsoft I'm the least worried about since it's pretty simple to figure out. VMware and Cisco are a bit more complex.

Thoughts?

joetest

My thoughts:
Don't rush it - no point in having all these certifications if you don't have some experience to back them up. And if you rush through it, you won't remember sh*t anyways.

Simrid

I had about a week break between my CCNA and my studies on Switch. It's super interesting, I would recommend going for NP. Specialising is the way to go imo.

Deathmage

Simrid wrote: »

I had about a week break between my CCNA and my studies on Switch. It's super interesting, I would recommend going for NP. Specialising is the way to go imo.

I'd like to specialize in networking and VMware, with a dabble in windows server.

no!all!

I've been thinking the same thing. I plan on completing NA before Christmas and I was wondering if I should go straight to NP or do NA Sec...Since the new NA Sec exams are coming out soon I might just start studying NP and come back to NA Sec. I'd go for NP though.

hurricane1091

I started the route book a few months ago but had to stop due to WGU. If you're not doing the stuff every day, I don't think it's worth doing right now. Things like route redistribution, DMVPNs, etc are easier to understand when you are doing it at work. I believe you can get the certification without job experience though, but if you aren't setting up regular VPNs or a routing protocol for a living, it might not make sense to go ahead and learn DMVPNs and route distribution. BUT, the CCNP material was much more interesting - so I can see the appeal! I am sure someone can speak from experience though.

I used to want all those 3 certs too but not now. Those are all 3 separate roles (okay, VMWare can go hand in hand with the MCSA stuff - fair) so I can't really justify it. Financially, it would make more sense to dedicate that time to an MBA and getting a managerial role. That's my thought anyways.

fredrikjj

Deathmage wrote: »

With this being said I presume CCNP: R&S has overlap from CCNA : R&S, so my question is once I get CCNA could I honestly get Switch or Route done in 2 to 3 months time as well as doing the 70-410 exam from Microsoft?

That's probably a bit optimistic depending on how much time you are going to put into that other exam. But, if you put everything else on hold outside of work, 2 to 3 months is definitely possible for each exam.

theodoxa

While there is a lot of overlap, I think 2-3 months for CCNP + a Microsoft Cert is a bit ambitious.

[EDIT] It took me 3 months to get my CCNP, so CCNP in 3 months is doable if you have experience.

10Linefigure

I would recommend a short break. After CCNA I read Network Warrior and got another few months of work experience before jumping into CCNP studies.

Deathmage

hurricane1091 wrote: »

I started the route book a few months ago but had to stop due to WGU. If you're not doing the stuff every day, I don't think it's worth doing right now. Things like route redistribution, DMVPNs, etc are easier to understand when you are doing it at work. I believe you can get the certification without job experience though, but if you aren't setting up regular VPNs or a routing protocol for a living, it might not make sense to go ahead and learn DMVPNs and route distribution. BUT, the CCNP material was much more interesting - so I can see the appeal! I am sure someone can speak from experience though.

I used to want all those 3 certs too but not now. Those are all 3 separate roles (okay, VMWare can go hand in hand with the MCSA stuff - fair) so I can't really justify it. Financially, it would make more sense to dedicate that time to an MBA and getting a managerial role. That's my thought anyways.

Well I know for a fact by the time I'm 40, 10 years from now I want to be a VCDX and CCIE and at-least a MCSE. See I differ on the approach that they don't all work together. Numerous VCDX's tell me you don't need the other vendors but some say it doesn't hurt.

See in my mind VMware is what I love but have a solid understnading of the systems and network fabric allows you yo properly design all three of them, I really don't like handing off my thoughts of designs to a different team that may not build it out in the manner it was envisioned. Having the techincal prowness to back the design, in my mind, helps tremendously.

Sure these roles can do 3 different specializations but I think all three in system administration are key to doing the role well.

10Linefigure wrote: »

I would recommend a short break. After CCNA I read Network Warrior and got another few months of work experience before jumping into CCNP studies.

My break would be changing gears into Microsoft which is a different path from the later of the two but I do microsoft daily so I don't feel it will be too hard..

networker050184

Honestly I'd advise to slow down and concentrate on mastery of a subject rather than trying to spread yourself so thin. Concentrate on passing the CCNA on the first try first and foremost.

hurricane1091

Deathmage wrote: »

Well I know for a fact by the time I'm 40, 10 years from now I want to be a VCDX and CCIE and at-least a MCSE. See I differ on the approach that they don't all work together. Numerous VCDX's tell me you don't need the other vendors but some say it doesn't hurt.

See in my mind VMware is what I love but have a solid understnading of the systems and network fabric allows you yo properly design all three of them, I really don't like handing off my thoughts of designs to a different team that may not build it out in the manner it was envisioned. Having the techincal prowness to back the design, in my mind, helps tremendously.

Sure these roles can do 3 different specializations but I think all three in system administration are key to doing the role well.





My break would be changing gears into Microsoft which is a different path from the later of the two but I do Microsoft daily so I don't feel it will be too hard..

That does not seem realistic to me honestly. If you want the CCIE, you need to eat-sleep-breath Cisco. You need to be a network engineer and be doing the stuff every day. And if you are doing that stuff, you aren't going to get the VMware or Microsoft certs because your job doesn't call for it!

I admire the ambition, but I think you need to do a reality check with what you plan on your job being at 40. If you don't do the networking at your job now, you should not do the CCNP because any job you get in networking probably won't pay as much as you're at now.

Eventually you might have a wife/kids/etc and not even have time for all these things too. Seriously, if you're going to put in that much effort, go back to school and get a BS and MBA and be the CIO somewhere and retire with millions.

thatguy67

Don't underestimate the Microsoft exams. I wouldn't approach them as a "break" from your Cisco/Vmware studies.

Have you taken an exam from them before? Lots of experienced Server guys fail the Server exams because the questions are obscure/tricky.

shortstop20

Deathmage wrote: »

Well I'm more tossed on my certifications it's crazy. I'm finalizing my CCNA : R&S study for a Oct. 24th attempt and will go every 2 weeks after until I pass....

With this being said I presume CCNP: R&S has overlap from CCNA : R&S, so my question is once I get CCNA could I honestly get Switch or Route done in 2 to 3 months time as well as doing the 70-410 exam from Microsoft?

I'd settle for CCNP, MCSA: 2012 and VCP6-DCV for 2016 if I felt it was smarter to stick with CCNP right after CCNA vs doing MCSA or VCP6-DCV and then doing CCNP.

Obviously I'll get them sooner or later. Microsoft I'm the least worried about since it's pretty simple to figure out. VMware and Cisco are a bit more complex.

Thoughts?

There's alot of new stuff in CCNP Route and a fair amount in CCNP Switch as well, neither are to be underestimated.

Some overlap with CCNA, but not much.

Deathmage

thatguy67 wrote: »

Don't underestimate the Microsoft exams. I wouldn't approach them as a "break" from your Cisco/Vmware studies.

Have you taken an exam from them before? Lots of experienced Server guys fail the Server exams because the questions are obscure/tricky.

I took the 70-640, 642, 647 about 3 years ago before the A+ and I just wasn't ready for them, I bombed them bad. so yes I know how tricky they can be, this was way before I had a home-lab or anything.

as for the focus on a track I don't know if I can. Most of the job's I find in my area require a MCSE, CCNA, and VCP to get them, they basically want a JOAT's, and while I think that's pretty much the status quo, I think the three tops would be the ones I just mentioned.

As for the focus, I do want to focus someday, but I like system administration as a whole and that can be kind of a iffy topic cause I like storage, networking, systems and virtualization.

as for ambitions, yes that's me in a nutshell. I'd probably get these certs just for the sake that I want too, I love learning. my Fiancee' is the same way with her medical stuff with the hosptial.

as for the CCNA, I plan on going until I pass it. been giving the study my all the past few weeks (found I learned more when I was doing the Storage + surprisingly but that's also cause it has a ton of overlap with R&S), devoting on average 4 hours a night M to F and 8 hours per day on weekends. I even moved the powerflex machine into the entertainment room so I can workout and listen to videos at the same time.

I guess I just have a ton of goals, if not always realistic there still goals and I'm driven to get them, kids or not..

hurricane1091

I'm just saying my boss is a genius who has worked for Cisco and done stuff for NASA, and he'll build any network in the world and he's aware of other technologies and how they work, but you'll never catch him standing up a whole virtual server environment. Vice versa for the server manager. Genius and aware of other things, but not an expert in all of them.

If your goal was to be a network guy, you're not going to be the guy setting up the servers and the storage and all that. Unless you're the JoAT somewhere, but then you're probably at a smaller company and the environment is less complex and the budget is smaller - and it certainly sounds like you want to dive deep into the complexities of it all, so I can't see that being the way to go.

Instead of wanting 1 expert cert from all 3, why not 3 expert certs from just 1? If you have 3 MCSEs, or 3 CCIEs, you'd pretty much be an absolute genius and expert at it. You can skip right to CCIE but if you did it right and started at CCNA Security and CCNA whatever and worked up, you'd be pretty damn smart!




Back to the original topic! I only started reading the first 7 chapters of the route book, so I can't really fully answer the question. I do think you can lab things up and pass for sure. I think there's more value to it (this goes for anything) if you are doing it every day. IIRC, some early topics include DMVPNs, EIGRP weighting, GRE, etc. I can see things like these in production though. It is a part of my job. If you're not doing them, you can still lab them though. But when it's being done for real in front of you, it makes more sense as to what purpose it serves. If it's going to help you get paid, I say do it. If you're doing none of this stuff at your job right now, I'd say don't do it because it's not going to benefit you right now. I would do something more important (MCSE?) and go back to this later.

I have 4 classes left at WGU and then I'm full force on the CCNP train, I will let you know how it is.

Deathmage

I was recently, as of yesterday offered a job in my area for 96k a year and when I was talking about about being spread across multiple vendors in terms of knowledge this is what I meant. I really do think the days of focused singular specialization was something on the 90's and early 2000's but now more and more job application want a person to be a VMware, Cisco, and Microsoft certfied person with expereince in it all...

[FONT=&quot]Job Description [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
•Direct and administrate infrastructure support, help desk and operators, and where necessary, conduct performance reviews and corrective action.
•Prepare RFPs, bid proposals, contracts, scope of work reports, and other documentation for infrastructure projects and associated efforts.
•Negotiate with vendors, outsourcers, and contractors to secure infrastructure-specific products and services.
•Maintains an ongoing partnership with the business to apply in-depth knowledge of the business operations, strategies, priorities and information requirements to establish the technical direction and an enterprise view.
•Defines enterprise level strategies and technical direction.
•Provides architectural vision to appropriately align IT to strategic business needs and goals.
•Ensure alignment of product roadmaps and releases across product categories
•Defines the system, technical, and application architectures.
•Architects solutions across multiple hardware/software computing environments and system components.
•Provide consulting support to projects during detailed design and delivery to insure adherence to established standards as well as best practices and industry trends
•Manages multi-project management accountabilities in developing solutions in a collaborative environment.
•Ensures the delivery process and technology strategies are coherent and optimized.
•Ensures appropriate technical standards and procedures are defined.
•Manages the development of centers of excellence around key technologies.
•Ensures best practices are adhered to in the adoption of new technologies.
•Researches, evaluates and selects from existing and emerging technologies that best fit business and IT strategic needs.
•Plans and implements process re-engineering or process improvement.
•Develops and manages plan for all design activities for integration into the overall project plan

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mandatory Experience:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
•At least 10 years’ experience with working in systems integration and IT architecture planning, design, and development
•Extensive knowledge of data center architectures, cloud computing technologies, converged infrastructure consolidation, security, service orchestration
•In-depth knowledge of IT infrastructure technology, such as but not limited to, Cisco LAN/WAN/WLAN technology, CISCO ASA/Checkpoint Firewalls, VMware, Citrix, Linux, Apache, SQLserver, Windows Server 2012R2, Active Directory, and MS Infrastructure Services
•Understanding of industry best practice design concepts, and how to apply them to a data center migration & hosting project
•Experience collaborating with internal and external vendors and partners to ensure that technology solutions align with the overall Enterprise Architecture Framework.
•Translate business requirements using complex methods/models to determine appropriate architectural solutions
•The ability to perform capacity planning analysis, define requirements and assist in systems engineering activities
•Possession of excellent analytical, conceptual, and problem-solving skills
•Familiarity with Service Oriented Architecture (SOA) and Network Architecture

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Desired Experience:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
•Ability to effectively communicate and summarize for executive management
•Display a high level of written communication and documentation skills\
•Able to manage multiple projects and tasks, work effectively in a rapidly changing environment and meet overlapping deadlines
•Experience in data center operations hosting multiple clients.
•Must be legally eligible to work in the United States
•Proficient with Microsoft application suite
•Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science or other technical field
•Experience in agile SDLC

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Benefits include:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT] · [FONT=&quot]Highly competitive salary[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Paid time off[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Pension Plan[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]401(k)[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Medical, Dental and Vision insurance[/FONT]

joetest

And let me guess - they want him being 20-25 years old too right?
No one is gonna be in expert/have indepth knowledge in all of those technologies. And let's say for the sake of argument there was - that pay would be lol.

networker050184

The people that fill those types of roles usually aren't very technical in the way we think of it. Like a solutions architect. Usually a broad understanding of how different technologies work and normal use cases. They aren't going to engineer any one specific area deeply.

hurricane1091

If you were really offered that job (and not just offered an interview or something) then do you see the problem with this arguement? No CCIE, no MCSE, no VMware expert cert but you were offered a job? I can't even tell what that job is. There's a different between knowledge and experience. I have some knowledge of linux, some knowledge of windows server. Absolutely not an expert, but I know what DNS, DHCP, grep, etc is.

A quick search reveals many jobs in NYC area that are not requiring you to be a JoAT. They may want you to be aware of other technologies which is 100% understandable, but not an expert in them.

Sr. Network Engineer:

https://www.nyucareers.com/applicants/jsp/shared/position/JobDetails_css.jsp?postingId=230338

Sr. Network Engineer job - Prospance inc - New York, NY | Indeed.com

http://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs/Careers.aspx?k=Job&c=qVH9Vfwq&j=oSyK1fwV&s=Indeed

https://guardian.taleo.net/careersection/gl_ex/jobdetail.ftl?job=61740&src=JB-10200

Sr. Systems Engineer:

https://recruit.zoho.com/recruit/ViewJob.na?digest=jjVrSY.IaOzFvIBiyfKrb2xn31Y50zNbUGjNKi1ErBM-_&embedsource=Indeed%20Staffing

NetworkNewb

Looks like a project management or IT management position. Doesn't look like terribly technical position. And looks like they just threw every technology they could think of on there...

Definitely good money doing that, sounds like a ton of hours as well though.

Deathmage

I see everyone's point on the topic, I guess I need to 'filter' the searches a bit.

Alexf302

Ignoring the non-Cisco certs, yes, I think if a CCNP is your goal, a short break from the CCNA and then right into CCNP studies would be the way to go. There isn't much that I would define as true overlap, especially in ROUTE, but the foundation you'd have coming out of a fresh CCNA will certainly help get you up to speed faster. But make no mistake, the CCNP can be a monster. Even with dedicated, focused study, 2-3 months per exam will be difficult unless you are working with the relevant technologies every day professionally.

And it you find you need to sit the CCNA multiple times as you are expecting might be the case, you'll likely be in for an even tougher time with the CCNP.

As tough as the CCNA is, it's pretty simple stuff after you've fought through the CCNP.

verbhertz

I've only sat for SWITCH, but I can tell you that it is a monster and on another level compared to the CCNA. I passed it with a good score but it was never an easy exam. I thought for sure I was beaten into submission. You can rush it all you want but at best you'll end up with paper that you can't back up, or at worst a hole on your wallet with nothing to show for it.

thatguy67

I'm starting to reconsider my plans. I'm only posting in this thread because they are very similar to yours. I really find myself studying networking more than Microsoft or Vmware. It's starting to get to the point where I want to get the MS/Vmware exams "out of the way" so I can focus on Cisco.

When I'm thinking like that, I can't help but wondering why I'm doing it. I tell myself it will spread my options but I don't really want a server admin job, nor do I want to work for an MSP again (the one type of business that would care that I have all 3). As for those job postings, in my experience it's one of these three:
1) some idiot in HR that puts in every technical term as a wish-list
2) it's simply every technology the company uses even if the duties are segmented
3) An MSP where you are the only technical guy on site and must solve everything from the building's networking problems to the CEO's iPhone not syncing up to his Tesla.

In the end I want a networking job so it just makes sense to focus on networking.

ebohlman

thatguy67 wrote: »

As for those job postings, in my experience it's one of these three:
1) some idiot in HR that puts in every technical term as a wish-list
2) it's simply every technology the company uses even if the duties are segmented
3) An MSP where you are the only technical guy on site and must solve everything from the building's networking problems to the CEO's iPhone not syncing up to his Tesla.
.

A few uglier possibilities:
4) The job listings aren't matched by actual job openings; the company is advertising just to create the impression that it's growing in order to impress or, worse, reassure investors. This usually means the company is in troubte.
5) The company has decided on a specific candidate, but for legal or policy reasons has to go through the motions of doing a search. In this case the qualifications will exactly match those of the chosen candidate.
6) The company is trying to replace a specific person, who fell into multiple roles as a result of attrition or layoffs, and the qualifications match his/hers. This usually means the company is struggling.

thatguy67

ebohlman wrote: »

A few uglier possibilities:
4) The job listings aren't matched by actual job openings; the company is advertising just to create the impression that it's growing in order to impress or, worse, reassure investors. This usually means the company is in troubte.
5) The company has decided on a specific candidate, but for legal or policy reasons has to go through the motions of doing a search. In this case the qualifications will exactly match those of the chosen candidate.
6) The company is trying to replace a specific person, who fell into multiple roles as a result of attrition or layoffs, and the qualifications match his/hers. This usually means the company is struggling.

That's true. I forgot about those scenarios. A classmate told me they would put out job postings like that so they could justify outsourcing ("We tried finding someone in the country but there was no one")