SAN Training Experiences

TechGromit

I'm interested in hearing about other people experiences in taking a SAN training course. I took my first SANS 401 training course in Washington DC this year, and was very surprised the number of students that didn't take the training seriously. They show up to class late, didn't have there laptops set up for the the labs on the first day, they leave soon as the lecture was over, skipping labs, come back from lunch late. While the classes were brutal, 10 hour days, 6 days in a row, I felt that a lot of students were not putting too much effort into the course. I believe you get out what you put in, I took notes, asked lots of questions, was usually one of the last people to leave when doing the labs and even caught an evening lecture one night. You would think when their employer was footing the bill, they could at least pay attention in class. While this is more of a entry level course in Cyber Security, has anyone seen similar student motivation in more advanced courses?

docrice

In my experiences at live, instructor-led SANS training, it was the exact opposite. Students were almost universally serious about getting the most out of the event and they're fully engaged.

How many were in your 401 class?

iBrokeIT

HAHAHAHA! Oh man your posts are great, I did pretty much did most of those things for SEC401 in Las Vegas this year.

I was late coming back from lunch a few times because I didn't stay at the same hotel the conference was held at, another time the lunch and learn went long and i was late because i asked the speaker a few questions afterwards, was 15 minutes late one morning becsuse I spent too much time at the Blackjack table the night before, left right after the lectures to make other evening talks, took maybe a page of notes because i have a great memory, skipped a few labs because i either used the tool before or ended up doing it later and ducked out an hour early to go to NetWars! two nights ...but of course you wouldn't know any of that if you didn't talk to me and just silently judged.

Did you even network with other people in your class and ask them questions? I did, the guy to my left was a former cop, works in forensics for a private company now, his work sent him there to get a better idea what the rest of his team does and he wasn't going to take the cert test. The girl to my right was fresh out of college, sent there by her company to just get some basic security training, she's a new sysadmin, most of it was over her head but she said also had the OnDemand bundle so she could review it a few times and wasn't sure if she was going to take the cert.

I put in the amount of effort necessary for ME to learn the material, networked with a lot of people including another member of this forum, had one hell of a time the whole week and crushed the GSEC with a 90% making the Advisory Board.

My point is stop focusing on others because you don't know them or their circumstances and focus on yourself.

Danielm7

TechGromit wrote: »

You would think when their employer was footing the bill, they could at least pay attention in class.

For a few of my coworkers it's the exact opposite. If they were self paying they would be serious, if work is paying then it's a week long vacation.

TechGromit

docrice wrote: »

How many were in your 401 class?

About 40, most of them were Government employees and were not planning on taking the Certification when the instructor asked.

iBrokeIT wrote: »

Did you even network with other people in your class and ask them questions?

I talk with a few people, but pretty much everyone went there own way for lunches and after class. I guess I could have networked more, but I wasn't interested in lining up my next consultant gig, I was there to learn. I'm guessing when I get into more advanced classes the class size will be smaller and it will be easier to network with other students.

josh.armentrout1

My experience at the live SANS training were all positive. Yes, people left immediately when class let out. I was one of those people. Hunger sets in real quick and I wanted to eat something before the night talks started. After all that was done, I went back to the hotel room and did my labs.

I never did stay during lunch due to the aforementioned bouts of hunger. I only came back from lunch late by five minutes once, maybe twice. There were others that came in late from lunch mostly due to parking issues in the hotel parking lots.

iBrokeIT said it best. Stop worrying about everyone else and focus on yourself. Everyone is there for different reasons. I'm going on a limb here when i say that the people from TE go there for certs. Others go there to fill in gaps their employers think they got. I highly doubt those that go there on the company dime truly slack off and not take it seriously.

As for those taking the 401, it would make sense that some didn't have their laptops setup right out the gate. Some of those people have never used Linux or VMWare. Some of those have computers from their workplace where they might not have admin rights to install anything. Everyone has a different story. The 503 wasn't as bad on the people not having their computers setup even when you get your vm image that first day. They pretty much knew how to work their stuff. So, yeah... the upper level classes have more technical people as you'd expect.

As for networking, use your breaks to talk to folks there in the hallways that are not in your class. You know, while you're waiting to get that big ol' cookie or your danish. Go to a night talk and the next day if you see the presenter, flag them down and ask something about their talk. People will be around you listening in and they might talk with you instead of the other way around because you seem to have an in with the instructor. Sometimes it pays to be teachers pet, you might get invited to go do Korean BBQ (happened to me).

Definitely attend more SANS classes. Your experience will change with how you approach it. If you keep your nose in the book (which is fine) you'll only see printed slides. If you only talk to your neighbors, you'll only know that small world of people. If you attend talks, you'll see students from other classes and you can see what their daily grind is at the office and notice how good (or bad) you got it. Also with that, you have some idea of what the other classes are like. Night talks are essential to these live events, in my opinion. If you talk to the instructors, you get amazing advice and face time with industry leaders.

All in all, you're right, you get out what you put in. But it depends upon what you want to get out.

TechGromit

josh.armentrout1 wrote: »

As for those taking the 401, it would make sense that some didn't have their laptops setup right out the gate. Some of those people have never used Linux or VMWare. Some of those have computers from their workplace where they might not have admin rights to install anything.

There were clear instructions on what class required, I was able to figure it out and have my laptop all ready to go before I arrived to take the classes. For the most part these are supposed to be experience IT professionals, not a bunch of end users that have to call the help desk to find the any key. They were just lazy for not being prepared for class in my opinion.

hr1stov

In my experience I found that most people were engaged in the class. There were several people that hung out in the back of the room and did not take as many notes, but I assumed that was because the material was more of a review for them.

The only issue I found with the bootcamp style was that after the 10 hour day, my brain was usually fried, so I had no desire to go out and network or listen to anything else. Usually just got dinner and went to bed. I am sure taking a course without the lab at the end would leave you with more energy for networking.