Recruiter rant

Cherper

Recently I have been approached by a couple of recruiters for positions. When asked about current salary, I have given them an answer along the lines of I am currently underpaid for my qualifications as I work in the public sector. Then when discussing compensation for the position, they say that the companies in question are loathe to start people out with more than about a 10% increase. What gives?

A new employer is basing my salary on what I made before is not happening. I told one of the recruiters that my current salary has no bearing on a future position, that I would be negotiating the salary based on the position and the going rate of the area. She insisted that the company would want to know my current salary to base what they pay me on. I explained that while my monetary compensation was lower than the going rate, my benefits made up for that. I currently get 17.5 days of paid vacation, that goes to 20 days in January. I get 15 day paid sick leave and 11 paid holidays. I also am able to carry 6 weeks of vacation time on the books. All of those things would factor into what I would be willing to accept in a new positions salary.

Don't these people make their money based on placement and salary? Anybody seen this? I talk to headhunters all the time and it has only been in the past two weeks that I have heard this.

networker050184

If a company feels that way then find one that doesn't. You don't want to work for a place like that anyway.

Cherper

I agree. I didn't go any farther with the process, but have never had that happen until two weeks ago, and then yesterday.

Chitownjedi

Many agencies already have a negotiated Bill rate that they haved agreed upon with the location they want to submit you for. They are more than likely asking you for your salary history, so they can divide more of that Bill rate (pie) in their favor.

For instance, many engineers where I work are billed out at 130.00 per hour, however the agency will ask for what you got at your previous position in order to give you an amount that you would believe is fair, which may end up being (40.00 per hour, or 45.00 per hour, or 48.00 per hour)

A lot of the time its no rhyme or reason to why some engineers got 45, or 48, and some got 42.00 as some of the people on the lower end were more qualified and had more experience, however in some cases the people who got more happened to be known by someone who already worked there, or the company was seeking placement ASAP, and couldn't pass up on qualified candidates(who were willing to balk at the lower end) because the placement had to be immediate, so the agency relinquished more of the bill rate to make the employer happy.

So long story short... 90% of it is BS. The recommendation is to only discuss the range you are looking for, tell them that your previous salary history is confidential as you signed a non-disclosure, and if they press, ask how much did they pay the person who previously had the position.

In the end, more often then not, its best to not engage in conversations with recruiters who use that strategy, and unless you are desperate, tell them to kick bricks.

iBrokeIT

A simple solution to that situation would be stop telling recruiters and companies what you make.

yellowpad

I agree.

iBrokeIT wrote: »

A simple solution to that situation would be stop telling recruiters and companies what you make.

networker050184

iBrokeIT wrote: »

A simple solution to that situation would be stop telling recruiters and companies what you make.

They aren't going to waste their time with you if you can't even give the info they need.

Danielm7

Chitownjedi wrote: »

Many agencies already have a negotiated Bill rate that they haved agreed upon with the location they want to submit you for. They are more than likely asking you for your salary history, so they can divide more of that Bill rate (pie) in their favor.

Ding ding! My current position is a contract role, should be FTE soon but that is irrelevant. In my negotiations with the recruiter we started at the max of their posted range, I told them that was too low. I interviewed, the company really wanted me, I told the recruiter again that they had to go higher. "Somehow" they were able to find another 10K a year out of their cut and they complained that now they won't make any money on the deal but they just want to make everyone happy. Sure, everyone works for free, I'm willing to bet that they are still making plenty of money on the whole deal.

cyberguypr

Ah, the eternal "how much do you currently make" question. There's no right or wrong decision, but it's a decision every individual needs to take a stand on. If you want to release the info, fine. If you want to keep it private, that's fine too. I always stick to my guns and refuse to say how much I make mainly because I like to be that guy who swims against the current of games recruiters/companies play. I understand companies have policies and whatnot so if this information is absolutely required I just thank their for the time and inform we can't work together. I am happier this way.

I generally dislike recruiters but took a chance on two last year because the roles looked really interesting and lined up perfectly with the direction I wanted to take. They never asked me how much I made and even provided compensation information for the position upfront to see if it lined up with my expectations. Those guys seem to be the exception rather than the norm.

BradleyHU

you could always say that you're not allowed to reveal that information due to an NDA...

also, i know alot of pplz will say they make more than they already do...which is smart, as companies are NOT allowed to verify your income...

techfiend

Since they aren't being honest with you there's no need to be honest with them. I'm not praising lying but sometimes it's what it takes to be successful. It's technically illegal for your current employer to give out the information anyways. Tell them a number you think you should be making and judge by the job description what you think it should pay. Recruiters want to take advantage of your wages, make sure you get your share of the money. A few recruiters have expressed 'I'm not a good fit' immediately after being honest about my pay and asking for too little.

I had a recruiter contact me about an admin position with a laundry list of skills at a Fortune 100 company for $10 an hour. I told them that's way too low and they asked how much I make now, I told them how much I should be making and they said $15 per is their max. They were taking a huge chunk of that salary, I wonder if they ever filled that position. If a lot of IT pros start taking these lower salaries it drives down the market value for IT and everyone suffers. Our skills and dedication to learning is already severely undervalued in most companies.

Priston

I find it absolutely ridiculous how companies have a policy requiring you to tell them how much you make, then once you get the job they also have a policy requiring you to sign a NDA so you can't tell anyone how much you make...

iBrokeIT

networker050184 wrote: »

They aren't going to waste their time with you if you can't even give the info they need.

And that's the issue, they don't NEED my current/previous salary. I've made that mistake exactly once and won't make it again.

My previously negotiated salary and total compensation was based on my previous experience and skills that I held at that time. Since that time I've significantly improved my skills and experience which means this is a separate and new negotiation that needs to happen at market rate or not at all.

If they are going are going to cling to the 10% thing then that sounds like a rigid bureaucracy that I have no interest in working for any period of time. Usually they change their tune after I make that case. If not I've still got a job.

Bokeh

Former recruiter here.

It's very simple, he who brings up salary first usually looses. Turn the tables on them. If they ask what salary you are making/expecting, ask them what would someone with similar education and work experience make at the company in question? Make them give a range first. If its acceptable to you, proceed. If not, let them know it is not in your range.

techfiend

I'll try that next time, maybe as early as tomorrow.

techiie

Please report back on how it worked. These recruiters drive me nuts with that. I tell them I can't give my salary info because an NDA and they keep pressing saying there client needs that information before they proceed which I know is B.S. thats them assessing how much of a cut to offer me from the lump sum that there client offering to pay them.

I know when I was in the middle of troubleshooting a phone outage at a site I got a call from a recruiter on my cell and not thinking I took the call. He explained the role and I was half listening. He asked how much I made I said it without thinking and he said we'll that equates to such and such an hour I can get you $2 more an hour. Thats when I paid attention and said hold on you said how much? He blabbed something I put the phone back down because I'm on the phone with the tech at the site and I assume that he overheard how I was dealing with the issue. I then got back on the phone and apologized that its crazy right at the moment. He said well if that rate doesn't work I can get you $10 more an hr. I'm like whatever dude email the details and I'll get back to you.

techfiend

Ouch, I couldn't answer recruiter calls at work on my cell. I just give them a home phone number, it's also easier to screen calls that way. It's not nearly as bad as recruiters calling the employer to ask for me though, that's happened to me twice.

I'll post back when I have the experience, plan on calling two recruiters tomorrow that are likely bad. The jobs are engineer roles, a bit above my head but I know I can perform. That's if I don't get contacted for a job offer for another engineer position, waiting impatiently and it's between me and 'a couple others' after the second face to face.

OctalDump

networker050184 wrote: »

They aren't going to waste their time with you if you can't even give the info they need.

But they don't need that info. All they need to know is what rate you will accept, and if you've worked at a few places you soon realise that rate depends very much on the whole package.

The whole thing is a silly dance, so that the recruiter can squeeze an extra couple of grand. Just tell me what the job is, what the benefits are, what salary they can offer and I'll give you a yes/no. Saves us both time and effort.

shawn488

The only reason I give my salary now as being in the military you can literally google how much I make down to the penny. Based on my current salary I'm looking for almost a 50% increase. I think some companies are surprised that someone would be insane enough to ask for that much right off. I've had a little push back, of course. After I get my first civilian job I'll probably never reveal my salary again. But I honestly don't have a problem telling because you either want me or you don't.

jibbajabba

networker050184 wrote: »

They aren't going to waste their time with you if you can't even give the info they need.

Two way street .. Recruiters or hiring managers also never reveal what they are REALLY willing to pay. And even IF you reveal that - they sometimes don't even take it into consideration.

I started to basically say that it doesn't matter what I am on atm (and contractual not allowed bla bla) and that X is the salary I need to move on .If X is too high - fair play ... I know my value and I know what my minimum is - I simply stick to that.

When I say that it doesn't even matter then let me give you an example.

Numbers are made up - but you get the picture

Them:"What you on"
Me:"65k and I need 68k to move on"
< several interviews later - and continued repeat of the numbers with several individuals during the hiring process >
Them:"Congrats, you've made, here have 63k"

Now you can see - even IF you reveal from day #1 what you are on and you made it clear from the beginning, it may still not work out as you expected and you have three options - take it, leave it, re-negotiate.

And even though I am nowadays strict in not revealing my salary - the companies I worked for have a policy of not giving out personal references.

They give out professional references and will only reveal the following

1. Job Title
2. Time in the company and funny enough
3. Salary.

So they may find out eventually. And in the UK you receive a P45 when you leave a company - which essentially contains your tax paid - and you need to give that to the new company. So they can work it out anyway. But neither the reference nor P45 matters, as these two things are usually handed out by me when I have the offer. So like most people I made up the numbers to artificially give me a raise by moving even if it is 'officially' a sideways move.

So I will stick with it - you want to know how much I earn - fine ... ask ... but you aint gonna get an answer any time soon and usually it seems the recruiter is desperate to place me, not me to be recruited.

So if for whatever reason I have to reveal it - because maybe I am indeed the one being desperate or I really want to work for that company - I honest, as again, in the UK they can find out anyway, or yea - they can fudge off

Archon

I had the exact same thing happen to me. I told the recruiter I wasn't interested if they weren't going to match my salary expectations.

Legacy User

techfiend wrote: »

It's not nearly as bad as recruiters calling the employer to ask for me though, that's happened to me twice.

I had some recruiters call me at my work he seen my company name on linkedin and was desperately trying to fill a spot. He really wanted to talk about my role and expectations I'm like well I can't have this conversation because I am AT WORK. He tried to hit me with the how much you make I said sorry I can't really talk right now to email me the job requirements. After an email exchange I told him while I'm sure I'll knock this role out the park I don't feel its a growth position more of a lateral move. He responded with the actual salary range and told me will this make a difference? It was a healthy amount of money but I heard through the grape vine that their client a cloud SP was in talks of getting bought out by a bigger cloud SP so I did not want to be out of a job in the next few months. So I gracefully turned it down.

I feel if the recruiter contacts you for something you haven't applied to then they "feel" you are the right guy for that job and if you come off confident and show you know your worth they will either bend to your will or move on to another candidate. Thats the benefit of having a job already as you are not the desperate one they are.

networker050184

I just really don't see why someone would even want a job they have to lie to to get a fair salary. Isn't that a huge red flag anyway? I guess if you just need a job, any job to pay your bills.

Chitownjedi

networker050184 wrote: »

I just really don't see why someone would even want a job they have to lie to to get a fair salary. Isn't that a huge red flag anyway? I guess if you just need a job, any job to pay your bills.

I don't believe it's the job that creates this situation, it's greedy azz people playing the capitalism game and trying to make more profit. That's just how it is, you can either get better at the game (learn it, understand it, and use tactics to leverage and advantage,) or you can be forced to sit back and grow animosity at a system that you can't change, or defeat, and choose simply to not participate in. The only difference is, just like the lottery, you have to play to win.

Or know someone on the inside. I honestly don't hold performing technical services for any corporation in high enough regard to get too bent out of shape about this conundrum. I'd rather position myself to dominate by having a skill-set that I will not be willing to compromise my value on, and call bluffs as I see them. But I never blame the position, or company if I am going through a recruiter or staffing agency. Honestly their jobs in my opinion is to be vultures.

techfiend

After I was asked via email what my salary expectations were, I used a variation of Bokeh's suggestion of 'What would someone with similar education and work experience make at the company in question?' It worked, they gave me a fair salary that I'd be content with, higher than what I would have said, however it's likely lower than the company is paying.

I also added that it's difficult to decide expectations without knowing the size and industry of the company. He told me the company name and on their site they have the job listed. I have to decide whether I should pursue the recruiter route or apply directly. A little back story on this recruiter, he's out of state which has been a decent experience for me. He contacted me via email two weeks ago about the same position, I wrote back that I'm interested, matched my experience to the requirements and attached a resume. I didn't hear back from him until today and he said I'm sorry but the position was put on hold. One thing that concerns me is he has an english name but write's engrish at best. I thought about writing back asking if he works with the company regularly before stating I'm content with the salary mentioned.

What would you do next?
a. Say yes and pursue with recruiter
b. Apply directly
c. Find out more information, if so what information?

Any opinion is greatly appreciated.

networker050184

So is this a contract through the recruiting agency or direct placement? Direct placement the salary is unlikely to change much, they aren't skimming off the top in that situation like a contract. Might be bringing you in at the lower level of the range to help them get commission though.

Personally I always prefer to apply directly. Recruiters can be a necessary evil at times though.

I'd just give the guy a call and sort it out.

techfiend

All signs point to direct placement. While I usually prefer direct applying as well, if the recruiter has an 'in' with the staff it might mean a better chance if I went through him. Also if I apply directly and he communicates with them about my name it could really hurt my chances. It's a relatively small local company that I find strange an agency thousands of miles away is recruiting for but it never showed up in local job boards. The high priority is proceeding to the next step which is a company interview, money is a much lower priority.

I've been in this situation once before and I told the local recruiter immediately I think I'll apply directly as I can name drop. Never heard from the company for that security position. Ironically, I directly applied for a network position at the company a month later and I'm currently deep in the interview process.