Weighing new (old) job offer

z335is

Hey there,

So about 8 months ago, I left company x to go to company y for what was close to a 30% raise. At the time, I would have preferred to stay at company x but they couldn't put together a good counter, so I just went on my way. I've kind of been tepid on the culture of the new company along with some of their arcane policies (no work from home outside of emergencies, general disdain for IT, etc.) so while I'm content, I wouldn't say that I'm happy by any means.

Well to make things interesting, my old company reached out and asked if I'd like to come back for what would be a promotion and pay increase over what I was at while I was there. The increase wouldn't bridge the gap completely, but it at least gets me in range. They are also guaranteeing at least one and possibly two work from home days per week, which is nice. So what would you guys do?

Some other details:

Commute - slightly in favor of company x
Benefits / 401k - slightly in favor of company y
Salary - Currently at 90k would be going back at 80k with opportunity for increase in August (was at 70k when I originally left)
Position - Both in the systems admin / engineer realm
Industries - X mid-sized pharma, Y Large-sized software with more room for growth

pramin

Any specific reason why work from home is important for you?

Seems like company Y wins out in terms of money/benefits.

Unless company X is better in terms of work responsibilities and technology exposure; I would stay with company Y.

z335is

pramin wrote: »

Any specific reason why work from home is important for you?

Seems like company Y wins out in terms of money/benefits.

Unless company X is better in terms of work responsibilities and technology exposure; I would stay with company Y.

Yes, I have two kids so being able to work from home for appointments and the like is huge. It also helps with the daycare costs. In regards to the companies themselves, X is a mid-sized Pharma company while Y is a giant in the software industry, so I feel like growth would be much easier at Y.

UncleB

draw up a matrix of the lines above and place a value on each out of 10 for how important the subject is for you in one row
In the next row rank the offer in terms of how good the offer is for each item for company X
In the next row repeat this for company Y
multiply rows 1 by row 2 for each entry for each company.
Add up the totals for company X and compare to the totals of company Y - top score wins.
If it is too close to call, go with the one you have the best gut feel about.

That's what I would do to try to keep it objective.

thanks
Iain

z335is

UncleB wrote: »

draw up a matrix of the lines above and place a value on each out of 10 for how important the subject is for you in one row
In the next row rank the offer in terms of how good the offer is for each item for company X
In the next row repeat this for company Y
multiply rows 1 by row 2 for each entry for each company.
Add up the totals for company X and compare to the totals of company Y - top score wins.
If it is too close to call, go with the one you have the best gut feel about.

That's what I would do to try to keep it objective.

thanks
Iain

Putting that together as we speak, thanks for the tip there!

jdancer

z335is wrote: »

Salary - Currently at 90k would be going back at 80k with opportunity for increase in August (was at 70k when I originally left)

Unless you get this writing, this a huge red flag.

Also remember, companies may forgive but they will never forget. When crap hits the fan, guess who they be looking to let go first.

It's not personal, it's business.

TechGromit

z335is wrote: »

Industries - X mid-sized pharma, Y Large-sized software with more room for growth

z335is wrote: »

YIn regards to the companies themselves, Y is a mid-sized Pharma company while X is a giant in the software industry, so I feel like growth would be much easier at Y.

Conficting X and Y's.

So they are asking you to take a 11% pay cut, but are offering you one, maybe two days work at home.

What's the commute like? An hour? 90 minutes? If it's a long enough commute the time, wear and tear on your car, tolls, gas, could make up a lot of the pay difference.

z335is wrote: »

Yes, I have two kids so being able to work from home for appointments and the like is huge. It also helps with the daycare costs.

How so? When I had children in daycare, it was pay by the week thing. It wasn't an a-la-cart thing, where you could drop your kid off anytime you felt like it and just paid for that day.

z335is

TechGromit wrote: »

Conficting X and Y's.

So they are asking you to take a 11% pay cut, but are offering you one, maybe two days work at home.

What's the commute like? An hour? 90 minutes? If it's a long enough commute the time, wear and tear on your car, tolls, gas, could make up a lot of the pay difference.



How so? When I had children in daycare, it was pay by the week thing. It wasn't an a-la-cart thing, where you could drop your kid off anytime you felt like it and just paid for that day.

Sorry, I'll go ahead and correct that. My current company is pharma, while the old one is software. Commute for both is around 60 mins give or take. Our daycare is on a full day / half day system, so working from home would enable us to do half days and save some money there.

Room for growth is also a major concern as the opportunities aren't what I thought they'd be here, as I'm pretty much at the top of the food chain.

cyberguypr

TechGromit wrote: »

How so? When I had children in daycare, it was pay by the week thing. It wasn't an a-la-cart thing, where you could drop your kid off anytime you felt like it and just paid for that day.

Most daycare places around me have a either a 3-day rate or even a daily option. It is of course, way more expensive per day than the weekly rate. And they also have limited spots for these, not like they can take 20 kids that will show up any random day.

gespenstern

I wouldn't get back. I only go forward, never got back actually. $10k, room for growth, exposure to a more complex tech at a larger company -- these are the main factors I would consider. But I'm biased here as I put any weight into professional aspects only, I can manage anywhere in modern enterprise. More warm and laid back and family style of conducting business is good when it's on top of professional aspects, but alone by itself it has close to zero weight in my eyes.

But I'm a geek, I have no life, I have no friends and care about nothing besides my profession, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

UncleB

I've gone back to previous employers twice, although both times have been for serious raises in rate where I have been able to leverage the skills that they would not train me in (which I picked up elsewhere since I left) to jump up the ladder. It would have been much cheaper for me to be trained in the first place, but that's the short-sightedness of some companies for you.

It also looks good on your CV that a previous employer wants you back - I've had multiple recruiters comment on this in the past.

However - if you have drained the current employer for new stuff to learn and potential to further yourself then it is time to move on anyway - never stay still or you end up stale.

thanks
Iain

z335is

gespenstern wrote: »

I wouldn't get back. I only go forward, never got back actually. $10k, room for growth, exposure to a more complex tech at a larger company -- these are the main factors I would consider. But I'm biased here as I put any weight into professional aspects only, I can manage anywhere in modern enterprise. More warm and laid back and family style of conducting business is good when it's on top of professional aspects, but alone by itself it has close to zero weight in my eyes.

But I'm a geek, I have no life, I have no friends and care about nothing besides my profession, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Yep, well my current company offers the better salary obviously, but my former company offers more room for growth, broader tech, convenience...so it is tough.

LeBroke

I get the feeling you're strongly leaning towards your old company. I'd say go for it, but get that August raise in writing.

I don't even have kids, and even then I'd never underestimate an extra 1-2 days a week I could spend with them before they turn all teen and start spouting Justin Bieber or Emo poetry.

As for money, at this tax bracket, the $10k a year is probably about $600-700/month. Assuming both you and your partner work, the money you'll be saving from a commute, and from daycare, it looks almost even. When you factor in the time saved from not having to commute at all, pretty sure you've completely broken even.

powerfool

I maintain a Top 5 list, and work from home is on there. I don't think I could work in the office day-in and day-out any longer. I hate the daily commute, I love the flexibility of being able to go to my kitchen for lunch, sit in my living room if I need a break, and to not be disturbed when I am really getting into work. That extra 1.5 to 2 hours a day without a commute are great and not having a long trip during the middle of the day if I need to do something else is great. Plus, I get so much more work done. I am significantly more productive and it shows in my reviews and my bonus.

That being said, I work for money and that is number one on my list. I would consider a $10k drop in pay too big of a sacrifice (including the lesser benefits). You are talking about nearly $1k/month before taxes. Get them to bend a little bit now to show goodwill. If they are interested in budging a little bit now, do you trust them about your opportunity for a significant raise in August? How much of a raise do you think you would get with the current company? That keeps things as moving targets... yeah they might get you close to or at $90k in August, but the current job may be $95k by then. Also, what about 401k match vesting... what are you leaving on the table if you leave your current job? Do you get to keep your "seniority" if you go back to the old company (in terms of 401k match vesting and other benefits tied to longevity with the company)?

EDIT: for what its worth, here is my "Top 5":

1) Base pay and realistic bonus (yeah, 10% may be in the policy, but what is reality, 7%, 5%, 3%?)
2) Insurance benefits (health, dental and life/AD&D are big to me... I have a family)
3) PTO (how many holidays, how many do I accrue, can I cash out, how much rolls over, to I get it paid out if I leave)
4) Flexibility (if I put in an all nighter, I better not be expected to put in 8 hours the following day... and work from home falls in here... I feel I should only need to use my PTO for a TRUE vacation where I want to not be contacted for at least a full work-week or more... I should be able to take off a Friday if I put in more time earlier without using PTO)
5) Healthy environment: is it a risk to work there? I worked for lots of startups during the Dot Com Boom... I don't need that sort of risk anymore; it the boss good to work with?).

This is assuming the work I am doing is legal and moral.

capwap

I wouldn't go back to a previous employer, at least not unless a long period of time has passed. It's too much like accepting a counteroffer, which is almost always a bad thing to do.

Mike-Mike

10k is a big cut, cant you just look for other jobs that keep you in the same pay range?

z335is

I appreciate the responses so far guys and I'll try to expand a bit here to answer some more of your questions.

I know it seems like I'm ragging on the new place, but I really tried my best to give them a chance and I've just found the culture and policies too hard to overcome. The dynamic of moving from a software company to a company where IT isn't the main business driver also plays a big part in this. I very nearly stayed at my old company the first time around, but with 20k staring me in the face, I had to take it. And quite honestly, even in hindsight I would do the same thing over again, as it's enabled me to see the other side of the coin and further hone in on what types of places I'd like to work at.

After taxes, savings from WFH, etc. I figure the difference will probably end up being closer to 5k rather than 10k. Also, I would be fully vested back in to my benefits and get full tenure back. So those factors are really making this a toss-up..





I

IaHawk

It sounds like you have made up your mind. Good luck with whatever you do!

joelsfood

I've gone back to a previous employer and it was one of best thigns I've ever done, professionally and personally.

For myself, with a young kid, wfh is the most important benefit a job can offer, bar none. That might be different for you.

techfiend

The extra time with your kids is irreplaceable! If it's a horizontal move in responsibilities and the pay cut still supports your lifestyle I'd strongly consider going back. Salary isn't the only thing in life and hoping to advance in your current position, is just that, a hope. Make sure to not regress your responsibilities and when you are ready to move on again you should be able to get that advanced position or more for a different company.

powerfool

z335is wrote: »

...savings from WFH, etc. I figure the difference will probably end up being closer to 5k rather than 10k.

How much could you really save from part-time WFM? It would really only be fuel and slightly reduced maintenance costs. You will still have insurance (maybe you get to have a lower mileage coverage if it is offered through your insurance... and considering you think the savings will be significant, most would probably come from fuel, so your remaining days would still likely be too many for that) and you still have financing costs, if it is paid off.

Since your benefits will go down... your lower salary will have to make up for that, too?

z335is

powerfool wrote: »

How much could you really save from part-time WFM? It would really only be fuel and slightly reduced maintenance costs. You will still have insurance (maybe you get to have a lower mileage coverage if it is offered through your insurance... and considering you think the savings will be significant, most would probably come from fuel, so your remaining days would still likely be too many for that) and you still have financing costs, if it is paid off.

Since your benefits will go down... your lower salary will have to make up for that, too?

Good points there and while the guaranteed WFH days are a big factor, another facet of it is that if I need to WFH one day because my kids are sick or have an appointment, then I will be able to. At my current company, it is highly frowned upon to WFH at all (I've done so twice in eight months). So I would either need to take PTO, or my wife would need to take an unpaid day in certain situations.

Benefits are almost an exact wash cost-wise, current company is more expensive monthly with lower deductible, while the other is the complete opposite.

blinkme323

It might sound mundane, but you really have to do what's best for you. Is the 5-7k hit worth the WFH benefits and better atmosphere? If so, then I'd say make the move and then work your butt off for a nice raise. The only thing I would personally be concerned about would be hopping to another company after 8 months, but I know opinions on that have changed in recent years.

LeBroke

blinkme323 wrote: »

It might sound mundane, but you really have to do what's best for you. Is the 5-7k hit worth the WFH benefits and better atmosphere? If so, then I'd say make the move and then work your butt off for a nice raise. The only thing I would personally be concerned about would be hopping to another company after 8 months, but I know opinions on that have changed in recent years.

Considering the OP is returning to her previous company where she's worked multiple years before that, if anything, it'll look great​ on her resume.

powerfool

Yeah, I'd end by saying do what feels right to you, but I would try to squeeze another $2-3k out of them or maybe a couple more PTO days (if you aren't familiar with it, many companies can easily give you an additional 5 PTO days over standard policy without much of any issue).

z335is

Thank you all for the advice, I just accepted the offer to go back. I had to go with my gut here and it just felt like the right move. I can't say enough what a big help this forum is though.