How to negotiate when the salary range is way below your current base?

philz1982

My question is at the end, but first I will explain the situation so that you can effectively analyze my question.
Here is my situation, I have known an Executive VP who has wanted me to work for his company for over 3 years now. I recently was able to interview for a role however the position tops out at 130k and I make 150k base. I told the recruiter we could interview and deal with the salary gap after the interview but that I would not be dropping below my base and that my salary expectations would be based on what the role entails.
Upon having the interview I learned the role contains much more responsibility then the job description and I would also be absorbing the responsibilities of a team member who recently left the organization. Finally, I would be required to travel 75% of time where I currently have 0% travel and work from home. (I've traveled before for work, not a big deal, but it does effect comp)
Based on this, I asked the hiring manager to have a salary conversation with me prior to the offer. I am going to position that.
1) The offer should be reclassified as a Director role due to the large amount of responsibility and the significant impact this would have on: -Growth of Service Revenue -Product Launch -Partner Management -Full development of multiple channels
2) I am expecting 180 - 200k for this role. I justify this based on current market for similar roles being from 180-220 across multiple industries, I've validated this against my companies salary chart (we're in the same industry) as well as salary research for similar roles on the Internet. This is also justified b/c I would be assuming the duties of a 100-120k/yr + bonus + benefits FTE. The gap between 120 to 180-200 is 60-80k. They would make money with this deal as they would avoid the costs of recruitment, the lost opportunity cost while the position remains unfilled, and they would get a FTE role without the headcount and would avoid 60k in salary by giving me half of the previous role's salary.
3) By making this move I would be taking on 2 FTE roles, would be leading 4+ people, would be increasing my travel, and I would be losing 20k in stock options. Additionally the 401k is 1% less and the tuition reimbursement is half what I currently get.
My plan would be to explain what the market bears for this kind of role, and how while they have this titled for a position with a cap of 120-130 if we work together we can consolidate the two roles (which they've asked me to do) and can re-title the role as a Director role and position at a market competitive salary rate.
So, with the background of the position, my question is, do you see any gaps in my logic and my plan to explain the gap? How would you suggest I close those gaps?

pinkydapimp

I dont see any gaps. However, i would have probably waited until an offer was on the table first to negotiate because that way they have a bit more skin in the game and would rather not go through the hunt again. You know they think you are their guy. But I think what you are asking is fair. Hopefully they will accommodate.

philz1982

Ya, I was on the fence on that one. Do I let them set the anchor and try to work up hill or do I start at the beginning by setting the anchor and helping them build the case for it. I know they will have to re-title this position in order to move the pay range I figured I'd try to save them the time of going back and forth since they have an immediate unmet need, especially with the recent departure of another employee.

Part of me is apprehensive asking for 200k, I'm not sure why but there is this weird emotional flux, where I am like, what really makes me worth 200k, am I being greedy, I'm not sure why? It's very weird.

pinkydapimp

Dont be apprehensive. You know your worth and you can justify what you bring to the table. Its a power move and its not alot to ask for based on what you know about the role. Be greedy because the company will be greedy as well. Worst case, they cant do it. Then, they realize that the business is hurting and a year down the line they realize they need you and come back to you. Price is higher then(And maybe try to find a way to say to them that they are getting you at discount now.)! Keep that position of power! Good luck.

bryanthetechie

philz1982 wrote: »

Ya, I was on the fence on that one. Do I let them set the anchor and try to work up hill or do I start at the beginning by setting the anchor and helping them build the case for it. I know they will have to re-title this position in order to move the pay range I figured I'd try to save them the time of going back and forth since they have an immediate unmet need, especially with the recent departure of another employee.

I agree that this is a tough call but is usually best to wait for their offer so you can counter. However, in cases where the employer isn't quite sure about how best to structure your position(s), then I think you do have some added power from helping to guide them in the right direction. If you can impress them with your proposal, they may elevate the position in anticipation of what else you can do to solve their company's woes.

philz1982 wrote: »

Part of me is apprehensive asking for 200k, I'm not sure why but there is this weird emotional flux, where I am like, what really makes me worth 200k, am I being greedy, I'm not sure why? It's very weird.

Did you discuss with them how 75% travel is funded? Is it directly billed through the company for everything or do they reimburse some or all of it? 75% travel gets expensive for you if they are floating their debt through you at 0% interest to them and 10-20% to you. If they do try to reimburse you for much of it, perhaps negotiate for more direct billing. Good luck, philz.

pinkydapimp

bryanthetechie wrote: »

Did you discuss with them how 75% travel is funded? Is it directly billed through the company for everything or do they reimburse some or all of it? 75% travel gets expensive for you if they are floating their debt through you at 0% interest to them and 10-20% to you. If they do try to reimburse you for much of it, perhaps negotiate for more direct billing. Good luck, philz.

Good call here. Direct billing travel makes things ALOT easier with regard to expenses and personal budgeting. However, the flip side is you paying and getting reimbursed which can allow you to rack up cash back or miles or hotel points rather quickly which can be worth it. But if you are going to have to pay for it, hope their expense system is fast and efficient. floating the company 10k for a month is never fun!

philz1982

pinkydapimp wrote: »

Dont be apprehensive. You know your worth and you can justify what you bring to the table. Its a power move and its not alot to ask for based on what you know about the role. Be greedy because the company will be greedy as well. Worst case, they cant do it. Then, they realize that the business is hurting and a year down the line they realize they need you and come back to you. Price is higher then(And maybe try to find a way to say to them that they are getting you at discount now.)! Keep that position of power! Good luck.

I mentioned as I was leaving, to the Executive VP, who has been trying to get me on board for 3 years now, that I was concerned about salary as the range was way below my base. He said not to worry about salary that we would make it work and that he was concerned with whether I was happy with the role and that it was something I wanted to do.

philz1982

@bryan

I'm pretty sure that I will have an expense account and corporate credit card for travel. The role is to develop products, services, and business which will require traveling into the field in order to lead the field in adopting the technology. They have been profitable 3 years in a row, since they got a new CEO, and they are a large company.

pinkydapimp

philz1982 wrote: »

I mentioned as I was leaving, to the Executive VP, who has been trying to get me on board for 3 years now, that I was concerned about salary as the range was way below my base. He said not to worry about salary that we would make it work and that he was concerned with whether I was happy with the role and that it was something I wanted to do.

Boom. Sounds like you are in the right position to negotiate then. And your throwing out a number first is fair. I bet you get it.

powerfool

Please do provide an update when you arrive at a decision on this. I find myself in similar situations and I tend to walk because they didn't want to budge. I haven't had an Executive VP in a position like that, however.... but when I have had someone in an authoritative position, I have moved because they made it worth my while and tended to be good people to work for. I am very interested to see how this turns out.

Robertf969

I'll make my opinion on the matter very short, its is almost always advantageous to throw out your salary requirements first especially when you are well researched and it sounds like you are. Also if its in a similar industry and they are unable to at least surpass your current base, I would thank them for their time and wish them the best of luck in their search. Good luck Phil, let us know what you decide.

philz1982

powerfool wrote: »

Please do provide an update when you arrive at a decision on this. I find myself in similar situations and I tend to walk because they didn't want to budge. I haven't had an Executive VP in a position like that, however.... but when I have had someone in an authoritative position, I have moved because they made it worth my while and tended to be good people to work for. I am very interested to see how this turns out.

Funny enough, this all started because of my blog. The EVP was reading my blog and liked what I wrote and we've been trying to find a way to work together for 3 years now. Just happens to be a coincidence that the interview worked out at the same time one of their employees just left.

-Phil

Iristheangel

Were you ever able to talk them into $200K?

Mike-Mike

philz1982 wrote: »

2) I am expecting 180 - 200k for this role. I justify this based on current market for similar roles being from 180-220 across multiple industries, I've validated this against my companies salary chart (we're in the same industry) as well as salary research for similar roles on the Internet. This is also justified b/c I would be assuming the duties of a 100-120k/yr + bonus + benefits FTE. The gap between 120 to 180-200 is 60-80k. They would make money with this deal as they would avoid the costs of recruitment, the lost opportunity cost while the position remains unfilled, and they would get a FTE role without the headcount and would avoid 60k in salary by giving me half of the previous role's salary.

this is very interesting, can someone give more detail about how to do this properly, beyond just glassdoor searches

colemic

I'm curious like Iris, how did this work out for you?