CCIE study plan

Iristheangel

I don't personally have a CCIE Service Provider but a few of my peers have it. What I've heard of the track is that the reason there's a lot less study materials, videos, etc is not because the exam is smaller in scope than it's other exams but because the majority of people going down that track already have a CCIE R&S or equivalent knowledge so the training material is usually bolted onto that. It takes a lot from the R&S exam and digs deeper into certain aspects of it such as ISIS, BGP, MPLS, etc as well as adding a lot of new topics. You can probably see approx 40-50% crossover from R&S and then a ton of SP topics. Another big complaint about SP over on the INE forums is the coursework seems to be incomplete so don't let the amount of videos fool you on the scope of the exam.

dppagc

Iristheangel wrote: »

Typically it is not. Most people 2+ years to get their CCIE. The only people I've seen do it quicker are usually people who were reading the books and the RFCs before they officially say they're studying for the CCIE and they have a ton of experience.. As far as time... heh... it's a 2-8 hour a day thing. Usually it means sacrificing your personal time... especially the closer you get to the actual lab exam. It's a serious time commitment but usually all things worth it are. I definitely don't want to sway you from getting your CCIE but you should understand what you're getting into.

I didnt know it was 2 years. For those people who have completed CCNP, what is the typical duration?

To be frank, my network is stable so there is rarely work to be done which is a good thing for me. However, my attention span is very short

gorebrush

A short attention span may hurt anyone who is going after a CCIE. Some of the content is dry (well at least for me) and can be hard to wade through.

At least get your CCNP done first - that will give a good grounding and it is of course modular. Took me 12 months of actual study (3 months per exam and it was 4 exams when I completed the CCNP in 2010).

Iristheangel

dppagc wrote: »

I didnt know it was 2 years. For those people who have completed CCNP, what is the typical duration?

To be frank, my network is stable so there is rarely work to be done which is a good thing for me. However, my attention span is very short

2+ years still on average and that's if you're a STRONG CCNP. This isn't me trying to be mean at all but based on some of the questions you've asked on this forum, I probably wouldn't gauge your skill level at a CCNP yet. It seems like you're still working on understanding the core concepts (BGP, OSPF, etc) and some of the other basics (SSH, Telnet, VTY, etc). You can still get the CCIE R&S but understand that it's going to entail quite a bit including bringing yourself up to full CCNP knowledge before you dive deep into CCIE material.

dppagc

Iristheangel wrote: »

2+ years still on average and that's if you're a STRONG CCNP. This isn't me trying to be mean at all but based on some of the questions you've asked on this forum, I probably wouldn't gauge your skill level at a CCNP yet. It seems like you're still working on understanding the core concepts (BGP, OSPF, etc) and some of the other basics (SSH, Telnet, VTY, etc). You can still get the CCIE R&S but understand that it's going to entail quite a bit including bringing yourself up to full CCNP knowledge before you dive deep into CCIE material.

Sorry to offend but how do I know what is "important" in the textbooks such as "routing tcp/ip volume". I am browsing through information such as packet header information in which I glance through and forget. Is there some way to get only the "information"? I am willingly to learn but I need to sieve out the good things.

joelsfood

Anything on the blueprint is possibly on the test, as well as related technologies, and a deep enough knowledge of it all to troubleshoot.

gorebrush

joelsfood wrote: »

Anything on the blueprint is possibly on the test, as well as related technologies, and a deep enough knowledge of it all to troubleshoot.

This.

You will find that Routing TCP/IP Vol1 and 2 and very good starting points - but if I recall correctly, the bulk of Vol 2 is a bunch of CatOS 6500 stuff that you don't need to worry about. Now the only way you'd know this is by looking through the blueprint and having some experience.

I think the bottom line here is that you can probably do the CCIE from scratch and there is nothing stopping you - the problem here is - the amount of time it'll take someone to achieve that will vary a large degree over candidates who have got strong working knowledge and possibly the intermediate certs in the meantime.

It took me 18 months, 1500 hours in total of study. I started REALLY learning Cisco in 2008 when I moved to a job where I had to look after an entire Cisco and CallManager network - so I was getting good working knowledge every day and I did the CCNP in about 1 year - I completed that in 2010. So we're talking 8 years experience (and I've been a full time Network Engineer since end of '12).

A lot of things I knew I could discount when I started studying because of that extra knowledge that you may not have had yet.

I would say a very decent place to START would be the Narbik CCIE R/S v5 Written exam guides (that's two books right?) - for someone who is already very well versed - these books can be used as reference - but you shouldn't rely 100% on them for the written exam. They will give you a very good idea of the content that the blueprint is covering, and from there you should be able to use the bigger textbooks to get the bigger picture.

I think I had something like 15 books in total and I read them all.

lostindaylight

dppagc wrote: »

Sorry to offend but how do I know what is "important" in the textbooks such as "routing tcp/ip volume". I am browsing through information such as packet header information in which I glance through and forget. Is there some way to get only the "information"? I am willingly to learn but I need to sieve out the good things.

Hello, dppagc,

Concepts are more important than memorizing facts. The path for learning the concepts for most: Reading books from multiple authors, taking notes and reviewing them, watching videos, and most importantly labbing, labbing, and labbing some more.

It's very rewarding when the picture finally comes into focus after a lot of hard work. That's real knowledge, and it will take you places in your career memorizing facts and information cannot.

I know a number of people who's careers really took off not from passing the lab, but as a result of all the studying the did to prepare for the lab. The transformation is a gradual process, the pass is just the final verification of your learning path.

There are no shortcuts. It's just hard work, day in and day out, instead of facebooking or watching tv.

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.

bests.

-lid

dppagc

In that case, I will rely on the INE videos and google cisco documentation. One of my friends with english as his 2nd language did that and cleared e written but failed the lab.

gorebrush

You can't just "google" the documentation. You need to learn how to navigate the documentation, because when it comes to the lab, you ain't got google.

lostindaylight

Hi dppagc,

The INE ATC videos are a great starting point. If you watch them and diligently work to absorb the information you will do fine, and you will be well on your way.

What you will discover is that Brian McGahan will to cover most all of the things we're talking about in your thread. I.e. lists of books and RFCs to read, the value of using multiple sources of information/authors when studying a particular topic, how to navigate the documentation, and recommendations on where to focus lab time on given topics.

One thing I would like to mention; it's a really good idea to interleave the videos with supplemental reading and lab work. i.e. watch some videos, do the lab exercises for the covered material, check books or RFCs for clarification on behaviors that you have observed. Otherwise, it's highly unlikely you will retain the information, much less be able to apply it.

Best regards,

-lid

Bardlebee

gorebrush wrote: »

You can't just "google" the documentation. You need to learn how to navigate the documentation, because when it comes to the lab, you ain't got google.

I back this, I didn't want to learn the cisco documentation, but man I'm telling you. 4 months in, I can't tell you how to config something, but I can tell you what that something does and how it should act. That "something" being "x" protocol. Its about memory and time from what I hear. If you're stuck you gotta know where that stuff is.

Also I've found its helped to just straight up read an entire Cisco doc on all the IGP's/BGP/Core topics as Brian recommends. Honestly the majority of my prep if not all has been directly from Brian's videos.

Save for RFC's... that is where I am shorting myself... maybe I'll read them later >.>

EDIT: To be perfectly honest. You sound exactly like I did in the beginning. I got my CCNP/CCNA rather quickly in comparison to the CCIE, you know self taught and each cert test took me about 3-4 months of hard studying to pass. Failed here and there but I passed. I though getting the CCIE was going to be like that. I thought "There is certainly a road others have traveled to get this thing, I'll just follow that". The problem is with a topic scope of literally 400 topics that you have know by heart, everyones journey is different.

The only way to get the CCIE (take this with a grain of salt, I'm not a CCIE yet) is to begin. And the way I did this, after being literally paralyzed by the scope of the topics and more so the time investment, was to just follow what the INE says to do. That was it. I feel more and more confident as the weeks go on that I can attempt and have a slight (1 percent?) chance at passing in June. But the problem here is, the scope is so large, that you don't know how or where to begin. Everyone has given great advice, what has worked for me to get over that paralyzing "what the hell moment" was to go with the flow. Meaning, watch a video on a topic, lab that topic and read that topic. Those three simple things will bring you closer, chipping away every day. I decided I would study 4 hours a day. Some days I fell short, some days I hit 8 hours (few so far, it burns). But the point was to study every day, even if its an hour. Because consistency will bring you to the next level.

There are no shortcuts to it, you have to read all the documentation everywhere, Cisco Docs, Cisco books and RFC's. And you have to lab it until your fingers hurt. And you have to watch Brian for hours haha. He's a great instructed so its okay.

gorebrush

Bardlebee wrote: »

There are no shortcuts to it, you have to read all the documentation everywhere, Cisco Docs, Cisco books and RFC's. And you have to lab it until your fingers hurt. And you have to watch Brian for hours haha. He's a great instructed so its okay.

That first part of your sentence. There are no shortcuts. Spoken like someone who understands what it takes.

davidb1

What would you rate IPEXPERT bootcamp 1-10? I was considering attending their BC.

Iristheangel

I can only speak for their DC bootcamp which was top notch. Which track are you thinking of going for, Davidb1?

dppagc

Bardlebee wrote: »

I back this, I didn't want to learn the cisco documentation, but man I'm telling you. 4 months in, I can't tell you how to config something, but I can tell you what that something does and how it should act. That "something" being "x" protocol. Its about memory and time from what I hear. If you're stuck you gotta know where that stuff is.

Also I've found its helped to just straight up read an entire Cisco doc on all the IGP's/BGP/Core topics as Brian recommends. Honestly the majority of my prep if not all has been directly from Brian's videos.

Save for RFC's... that is where I am shorting myself... maybe I'll read them later >.>

EDIT: To be perfectly honest. You sound exactly like I did in the beginning. I got my CCNP/CCNA rather quickly in comparison to the CCIE, you know self taught and each cert test took me about 3-4 months of hard studying to pass. Failed here and there but I passed. I though getting the CCIE was going to be like that. I thought "There is certainly a road others have traveled to get this thing, I'll just follow that". The problem is with a topic scope of literally 400 topics that you have know by heart, everyones journey is different.

The only way to get the CCIE (take this with a grain of salt, I'm not a CCIE yet) is to begin. And the way I did this, after being literally paralyzed by the scope of the topics and more so the time investment, was to just follow what the INE says to do. That was it. I feel more and more confident as the weeks go on that I can attempt and have a slight (1 percent?) chance at passing in June. But the problem here is, the scope is so large, that you don't know how or where to begin. Everyone has given great advice, what has worked for me to get over that paralyzing "what the hell moment" was to go with the flow. Meaning, watch a video on a topic, lab that topic and read that topic. Those three simple things will bring you closer, chipping away every day. I decided I would study 4 hours a day. Some days I fell short, some days I hit 8 hours (few so far, it burns). But the point was to study every day, even if its an hour. Because consistency will bring you to the next level.

There are no shortcuts to it, you have to read all the documentation everywhere, Cisco Docs, Cisco books and RFC's. And you have to lab it until your fingers hurt. And you have to watch Brian for hours haha. He's a great instructed so its okay.

Why is there 400 topics? The INE videos only listed 150+ videos. Am I missing something here? Conceptually wise, ine videos are great. But it is too lengthy at times.

Iristheangel

Because INE is not going to be your only study resource and they don't cover anything. That's why. On your path to become a CCIE, they're also expecting you to read through the recommended reading list of books, RFCs, etc to cover the gap.

The CCIE is one of the hardest exams to achieve in the world. The BAR exam to be a lawyer, medical boards, etc all have a higher pass rate that the CCIE exam. There's a reason why it's that way. The CCIE is implying that you have experience configuring this stuff, troubleshooting skills, and because of the breadth and depth of it, there's no one place or one vendor that can cover it all. That's why it takes years sometimes for strong CCNPs to get it, multiple fails before that desired pass and, well, most of the time people give up after a fail or two or when they realize what it's going to take. Nothing bad about them for doing so because it's a BEAST and they still might be an expert based on experience or where they're at but passing the CCIE lab is a different level in some ways.

iseeyou

Iristheangel wrote: »

Because INE is not going to be your only study resource and they don't cover anything. That's why. On your path to become a CCIE, they're also expecting you to read through the recommended reading list of books, RFCs, etc to cover the gap.

The CCIE is one of the hardest exams to achieve in the world. The BAR exam to be a lawyer, medical boards, etc all have a higher pass rate that the CCIE exam. There's a reason why it's that way. The CCIE is implying that you have experience configuring this stuff, troubleshooting skills, and because of the breadth and depth of it, there's no one place or one vendor that can cover it all. That's why it takes years sometimes for strong CCNPs to get it, multiple fails before that desired pass and, well, most of the time people give up after a fail or two or when they realize what it's going to take. Nothing bad about them for doing so because it's a BEAST and they still might be an expert based on experience or where they're at but passing the CCIE lab is a different level in some ways.

lol, don't think ccie is one of the hardest exam in the world...Microsoft master exam ( $18000) was hard, OSEE Certification far harder... don't really think ccie is one of the hardest exam in the world but its one of the respected exams that has good return on investment.....secondly if you break ccie blueprint into school curriculum..the pass rate will be higher...just my 2cents
[h=2][/h]

Iristheangel

iseeyou wrote: »

lol, don't think ccie is one of the hardest exam in the world...Microsoft master exam ( $18000) was hard, OSEE Certification far harder... don't really think ccie is one of the hardest exam in the world but its one of the respected exams that has good return on investment.....secondly if you break ccie blueprint into school curriculum..the pass rate will be higher...just my 2cents

That's a matter of debate. The Microsoft Master exam is retired. What was the pass rate for people for both exams? According to David Blair, the first-time pass rate for the CCIE is 7%. The overall pass rate over the lifetime of the certification up to this article was 26% which might have got up or down since then but it's still considered one of the hardest in the world (note: I did the hardest, I said one of): Doctor, lawyer? Non-techies don't appreciate Cisco networking exam | Network World

There's a long list of publications that would agree:
Top 12 Toughest Exams in the World - Listovative
Up For A Challenge? The 10 Toughest Exams You Can Take
Become a Legend - The Hardest IT Certifications to Get - IT Certification Master
Top 15 Toughest Exams in the World | ListSurge

Opinions may vary and if you took the Microsoft Masters and OSEE exams and they were harder for you, that's cool. But generally in IT, the CCIE is considered one of the hardest just based on the pure breadth and depth of the knowledge required to pass. It's still a beast however you organize it.

dppagc

Iristheangel wrote: »

Because INE is not going to be your only study resource and they don't cover anything. That's why. On your path to become a CCIE, they're also expecting you to read through the recommended reading list of books, RFCs, etc to cover the gap.

I have not reached there yet but what are some of the topics not there? I better study it well all at 1 shot and attempt the exam. I dont want to leave anything out.

Just a little rant... Brian makes it seem like getting the CCIE was so simple, verifying this this this and then proceed on to the next step, verifying vrf before proceeding with redistribution ....

Sometimes I think, is the CCIE really that simple?

Iristheangel

There's a lot it takes to be an "expert." Brian takes you through some of it in videos but you can't watch 1-3 hours of video on a topic and understand the actual underlying protocol, how it's constructed, how it interacts with others, how to troubleshoot, etc. It's a start but you don't hear about CCIEs who used just a set of videos and passed. There's a lot more in the backend that usually takes place.

Brian's job is an instructor and he's going to try to simplify things as much as possible for you but as myself and other CCIEs have pointed out in this thread, it's going to take a LOT more than just watching videos. Those are a start. And remember, Brian has multiple CCIEs and a very smart guy but he's never taken the CCIE v5 R&S lab that you will be taking - he took his CCIE R&S back in 2002 on a very very different version. Once you pass a CCIE exam, you can never take that lab again - That's not to talk poorly on Brian or anything, he makes it a job to study the topics of the exam and tries to simplify them for you, but be aware when you are training from any company or single product, these people's jobs are to exam the content of the blueprint and break it down for you. They don't teach you the exam and the feedback they can give you on the exam is probably based on what they have publicly available without breaking NDA. That's a good thing because teaching you an exam isn't really going to help you in the real world. Follow the blueprint: http://blog.ine.com/2014/04/17/ines-ccie-rsv5-expanded-blueprint/

As far as the CCIE really being "that simple," It isn't. Having that mindset will get expensive for you when it comes time to drop $1,600 for the lab. It's a journey to get to the CCIE but ultimately, it'll make you a better engineer. If you aren't getting a lot of hands on experience at your current job, I would recommend changing jobs for the CCIE because it's going to be a lot harder to work full time without using any of the skills you're learning and then come home to something different.

Bardlebee

Honestly, if no one has said it in this thread yet.

Studying for the CCIE is a lifestyle.

What I mean is, you could study an hour a day for the CCNA and get away with it. But you can't for the CCIE, it stretches too thin without solidifying the over 400 topics. So just like working out or perhaps your other daily grinds. Studying for the CCIE is something that becomes a part of your life, not just a short vacation away from it during the day. Instead of my schedule being Get up, Work, Video Games, Hang out with friends. Its now Get up, Work, Study, Squeeze in time for fun.

That's what I've felt anyway.

Iristheangel

Amen, Bardlebee!

gorebrush

Bardlebee wrote: »

Honestly, if no one has said it in this thread yet.

Studying for the CCIE is a lifestyle.

What I mean is, you could study an hour a day for the CCNA and get away with it. But you can't for the CCIE, it stretches too thin without solidifying the over 400 topics. So just like working out or perhaps your other daily grinds. Studying for the CCIE is something that becomes a part of your life, not just a short vacation away from it during the day. Instead of my schedule being Get up, Work, Video Games, Hang out with friends. Its now Get up, Work, Study, Squeeze in time for fun.

That's what I've felt anyway.

And this is the first rule of CCIE club. Forget you have a life for a little while.

dppagc

gorebrush wrote: »

And this is the first rule of CCIE club. Forget you have a life for a little while.

Even when I watch the videos, I realize how little my knowledge is.
Again can anyone show a breakdown of the 400 topics?
I dont want to leave anything out.

Iristheangel

Here you go:

SP 4.0 lab topics: https://learningcontent.cisco.com/cln_storage/text/cln/marketing/exam-topics/400-201_ccieSP.pdf
SP 4.0 written topics: https://learningcontent.cisco.com/cln_storage/text/cln/marketing/exam-topics/400-201_ccieSPW_v3.pdf

If you're looking for a breakdown of what's deeply covered in INE vs what's on that track, no one here is going to be able to provide that to you. It's more that we don't use one resource for any CCIE study. The depth and breadth of those exams make that hard. If you're still wondering what part of the lab topics you should be researching outside of what INE is providing you videos for, I would recommend most of them unless you feel like you're an expert in any one of those topics. Videos are a start - they're not a complete resource for a CCIE.

dppagc

There must be a reason why he said there is 400 topics right.
I have already read the exam blueprint many times already but it doesnt list 400 topics.

gorebrush

Not sure where anyone comes up with "400" topics - there aren't.

Bardlebee

Uh, I am counting every line in the exam topic list.

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/community/certifications/ccie_routing_switching/written_exam_v5/exam-topics

As always you should do your own research into these things. I'm just a random guy from the internet. So if you were to count every line item as a topic, yeah you would get about 400. But gorebrush is right, in reality there aren't 400 topics. Sorry to confuse you.

Many of the line items are bogus (Implement and troubleshoot for every protocol for example)

Again, you should consider that I don't know what I'm talking about and inform yourself on that. Taking it not by line item, its much much less.

Whether there are 20 topics broken down into 400 or truly 400 topics you need to be an expert in all of it. Which takes many nights of studying as I can attest (not an expert yet). Of course the link is for the written, but the lab is about the same in scope.

gorebrush

OK yeah there are many "line items"

I always just looked at it as: -

Layer 2
Routing
EIGRP
BGP
OSPF
RIP
Multicast
MPLS
etc - very high level. But I get what you mean.