Am I a so called "Legit CCNA"?

Muhammed H

May be a dumb question that doesn't have any specific answer. But seriously what does a "legit CCNA" means
in real world. I found many people in this forum used that quite a few times in the past.

Does that mean someone who passed the exam using **** is an "illegit CCNA" ?

Or someone who passed in a legal way but never touched a real Cisco switch/router?

I passed CCNA almost 3 years back and in a legal way (No ****). I studied Todd/Odom's books, did labs in packet tracer, spend hours working on subnet, summarization maths, etc. But never worked on real Cisco equipment.

In my job I mostly deal with windows servers and VMWARE.

Now its time to renew my CCNA and I am following the same path as I did 3- years back.

Am I a "legit CCNA" by your definition?

danny069

I never used the word "legit CCNA" and nobody here should be using **** anyway. You're only cheating yourself if you do. Sure you are a CCNA, but you never had a chance to apply your skills in the real world. It's like a champion that has the belt but has never defended it. It doesn't mean you don't know your stuff, but once you have the chance to apply those skills, ie: using your knowledge to overcome challenges and problem solve, it truly validates your certification.

gkca

No doubts about you being a "legit CCNA" - you passed the test, so you are a CCNA. But I'd think twice whether it's worth the effort and money to renew a certification on something you don't actually actively work with.

thomas_

I would consider you a legit CCNA. During an interview I had the interviewer ask if my CCNA was a "NOC CCNA". I wasn't sure how to answer that one since I've never worked in a NOC. However, after working with a few different NOCs over the phone I must say I haven't been terribly impressed with the people on the other end of the line.0

Iristheangel

Legit CCNA == Knows the material and passed the test without cheating. Pretty simple there.

Paper CCNA == Maybe passed the test some time ago, stopped labbing or never got exposure and forgot a lot of it so they are simply a CCNA on paper. It happens a lot but it's hardly an ethical issue. Usually just takes cracking the book open and some labbing to go back to the above

Fake CCNA/Dumper/<Fill in colorful adjective> == Someone who dumped and passed the exam because of it. I don't care about the amount of justification of "Cisco words it weirdly and I need to check but I still read the book," "I don't have enough money to retake the exam," "I still know my stuff," etc. Whatever the excuse, someone who does that could have studied longer to raise their chances of a pass and worked their butt off like the rest of us. I don't like the justifications and excuses because I had to work my butt off doing two full time jobs in my early IT career to pay for certs and study materials.

thomas_

Iristheangel wrote: »

Paper CCNA == Maybe passed the test some time ago, stopped labbing or never got exposure and forgot a lot of it so they are simply a CCNA on paper. It happens a lot but it's hardly an ethical issue. Usually just takes cracking the book open and some labbing to go back to the above

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like if you've never been in a NOC environment or dealt with every single aspect that the CCNA covers on a day to day basis, then people equate a paper CCNA being no different than a "fake CCNA".

What really kills me is when I go into an interview and I meet a guy who adminsters a practical test that got hired on knowing nothing. He obviously knew his stuff when I met him, but it frustrates me that I couldn't find a job for a junior role when I know a lot more than nothing and would pick the skills I needed really fast. Maybe I'll have better luck the next time I'm job hunting.

bigdogz

I have seen my share of fake CCNA's and in the end they get burned and will lose to someone who has some knowledge.

Good Luck on the exam.

colemic

To me, if you could troubleshoot/solve a problem that wasn't explicitly covered on the test, you're legit. Although I certainly understand the logic behind Iris' groupings (and I also agree with her)

Iristheangel

thomas_ wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like if you've never been in a NOC environment or dealt with every single aspect that the CCNA covers on a day to day basis, then people equate a paper CCNA being no different than a "fake CCNA".

What really kills me is when I go into an interview and I meet a guy who adminsters a practical test that got hired on knowing nothing. He obviously knew his stuff when I met him, but it frustrates me that I couldn't find a job for a junior role when I know a lot more than nothing and would pick the skills I needed really fast. Maybe I'll have better luck the next time I'm job hunting.

You still can pick out Paper CCNAs vs dumpers. I studied for about 3-4 months to get my CCENT and CCNA. I got my first real networking job about 8 months later since I was working my butt off on finishing my degree and my CISSP, I really didn't have time to keep the labbing up. That being said, I probably didn't remember all my commands but I could remember how STP works, or how a packet finds the gateway and is routed (ARP, the mac address table on a switch being updated, packet switched at L2 and how a switch does it differently than a hub, how the router checks its routing table and then rewrites the L2 before sending it to the next hop, etc etc etc). You still remember the concepts if you're a paper CCNA for the most part - you just aren't in the nitty-gritty (i.e. remembering the ADs of routing protocols off the top of your head).

The dumpers just look at you with a glazed look on their face when you ask them to explain to you how STP works or how packet moves across the network or how a switch is different than a hub

E Double U

Muhammed H wrote: »

But seriously what does a "legit CCNA" means in real world.

Am I a "legit CCNA" by your definition?

I've never seen legit CCNA on a resume or a job posting. It has whatever meaning you give it. Don't let us define you.

bermovick

I have been sorely tempted to somehow incorporate that I'm a "legit" CCNP during interviews. As a government contractor, dumping is EXTREMELY prevalent. Typically person X is hired by the contractor and is told they have to get their Security+ and CCNA or MCSA in a month or two. I get pretty pissed off that the CCNP I bring to the table has no more weight than that of someone who dumped theirs brings (and if they're on the prime, they probably get the tier 2 / functional lead position, despite getting a "deer in the headlights" look when sat down in front of a command prompt [not that I have first-hand experience of that exact situation])

olaHalo

bermovick wrote: »

I have been sorely tempted to somehow incorporate that I'm a "legit" CCNP during interviews. As a government contractor, dumping is EXTREMELY prevalent. Typically person X is hired by the contractor and is told they have to get their Security+ and CCNA or MCSA in a month or two. I get pretty pissed off that the CCNP I bring to the table has no more weight than that of someone who dumped theirs brings (and if they're on the prime, they probably get the tier 2 / functional lead position, despite getting a "deer in the headlights" look when sat down in front of a command prompt [not that I have first-hand experience of that exact situation])

How did they get hired in the first place?
Is it because they have clearance and not many people can compete for those jobs?

I do not understand how people ever get hired based on certs that they cheated to get. Does no one screen their employees?

bpenn

bermovick wrote: »

As a government contractor, dumping is EXTREMELY prevalent.

This couldn't be closer to the truth. All of our lead sys admins and IA people were required to be IAT level 3 for 8570 and that requires CASP or CISSP. I don't think anyone actually studied legit for the CASP (they circulated **** through each other) and NOBODY took the CISSP.

Ede890

bermovick wrote: »

I have been sorely tempted to somehow incorporate that I'm a "legit" CCNP during interviews. As a government contractor, dumping is EXTREMELY prevalent. Typically person X is hired by the contractor and is told they have to get their Security+ and CCNA or MCSA in a month or two. I get pretty pissed off that the CCNP I bring to the table has no more weight than that of someone who dumped theirs brings (and if they're on the prime, they probably get the tier 2 / functional lead position, despite getting a "deer in the headlights" look when sat down in front of a command prompt [not that I have first-hand experience of that exact situation])

I understand your pain. I have witness this too in Govt. Contracting and it literally hurts my brain to sit there and watch a dumber struggle because they cheated on the test.

Kai123

bermovick wrote: »

I have been sorely tempted to somehow incorporate that I'm a "legit" CCNP during interviews. As a government contractor, dumping is EXTREMELY prevalent. Typically person X is hired by the contractor and is told they have to get their Security+ and CCNA or MCSA in a month or two. I get pretty pissed off that the CCNP I bring to the table has no more weight than that of someone who dumped theirs brings (and if they're on the prime, they probably get the tier 2 / functional lead position, despite getting a "deer in the headlights" look when sat down in front of a command prompt [not that I have first-hand experience of that exact situation])

I gained my CCNA at a fairly big college, and the second week before the exams we were gently guided towards ****. One of the other students found out after looking for **** and everyone was overjoyed. One guy even said something like "no need to study, we have the ****!". The course was great but some students just didn't get it so it was a lifeline for them, and it allowed the college to tout a high pass rate.

It blew my mind. Everyone who worked hard at the course are in great careers now though, everyone else has kinda fell off the face of the earth.

It opened my mind to the route that people must take after getting the CCNA. I needed the CCNA for my role in the NOC but literally about 10% of the CCNA course material is used in work. If I took the CCNA tomorrow I'd probably fail. It must get people into help-desk, not using the CCNA at all bar knowing the foundations, and they get through that way, through slow exposure and experience.

Saying that, I work with Network Engineers from other companies and its shocking. Certs but no knowledge. They get by, fake-it-till-you-make-it, earning a great wage and picking it up as they go along.

koz24

olaHalo wrote: »

How did they get hired in the first place?
Is it because they have clearance and not many people can compete for those jobs?

I do not understand how people ever get hired based on certs that they cheated to get. Does no one screen their employees?

You'd be surprised at how many places do not properly interview candidates. That is how the dumpers get through. As a job seeker I am particularly careful with places that don't have difficult technical interviews and/or a lab setup to test candidates on hands-on knowledge. It tells me they are either incompetent themselves or lazy and puts a big question mark on the other employees who work there.

Personally I look forward to difficult interviews because I can back up anything on my resume and it makes me feel safer that I won't be working for or with idiots.

Hondabuff

Iristheangel wrote: »

You still can pick out Paper CCNAs vs dumpers. I studied for about 3-4 months to get my CCENT and CCNA. I got my first real networking job about 8 months later since I was working my butt off on finishing my degree and my CISSP, I really didn't have time to keep the labbing up. That being said, I probably didn't remember all my commands but I could remember how STP works, or how a packet finds the gateway and is routed (ARP, the mac address table on a switch being updated, packet switched at L2 and how a switch does it differently than a hub, how the router checks its routing table and then rewrites the L2 before sending it to the next hop, etc etc etc). You still remember the concepts if you're a paper CCNA for the most part - you just aren't in the nitty-gritty (i.e. remembering the ADs of routing protocols off the top of your head).

The dumpers just look at you with a glazed look on their face when you ask them to explain to you how STP works or how packet moves across the network or how a switch is different than a hub

A "Legit" CCNA is someone who works(ed) on a network and can give you a real life example of an issue with "insert protocol name" here. Like the time I changed the ACL in a config and made the network disappear! Learned the importance of the "reload in 20" command. Or why this "service timestamps log datetime localtime show-timezone year
" is such an awesome command when your trying to find out what's going on with your gear in a production environment with Tacacs and Syslog server.

thaiguy314

bpenn wrote: »

This couldn't be closer to the truth. All of our lead sys admins and IA people were required to be IAT level 3 for 8570 and that requires CASP or CISSP. I don't think anyone actually studied legit for the CASP (they circulated **** through each other) and NOBODY took the CISSP.

I feel your pain. My OBC for Signal Officer School was the last class where security+ and network+ were optional (either they'll pay for a voucher or you can request a waiver to be exempt from taking it so it wouldn't hurt your overall course grade). Classes after mine were required to pass security+ AND network+ in order to pass the course and be Army Signal Officers. I busted my ass studying security+ in my off time on top of classes, field time, and socializing and barely passed but passed. Out of my class of 50+ only 4 of us passed. Come to find out classes after us were circulating **** like crazy too. These cheating assholes were leaving with Sec+ AND Net+ by studying no more than a week. I was so pissed.

I didn't agree with the Army's policy to make it mandatory because it just degrades the value of the cert when a couple hundred cheaters are getting it every 6 months. This was back in 2012. Knowing some of those idiots, someone probably ruined it and maybe the Army changed the policy. Who knows?

Iristheangel

Hondabuff wrote: »

A "Legit" CCNA is someone who works(ed) on a network and can give you a real life example of an issue with "insert protocol name" here. Like the time I changed the ACL in a config and made the network disappear! Learned the importance of the "reload in 20" command. Or why this "service timestamps log datetime localtime show-timezone year
" is such an awesome command when your trying to find out what's going on with your gear in a production environment with Tacacs and Syslog server.

I would say that qualifier that someone has worked on a network would be post-CCNA to some degree. If a CCNA is an entry level certification, it's hard to being a "legit" <insert entry-level certification> holder would mean that you have experience in production.

joelsfood

I got my first CCNA with limited network experience, Odom's book and a stack of 3750s and 2600s on my desk. I never felt it wasn't legit (and I then used it to land a network job where I could put said skills to use in the real world). My only concern is learning (whether with books or a job) vs dumping.

Tom789

If you got the cert the right way and retained the information why wouldnt you be "legit" CCNA. No need to concern yourself with such things.