What Certs To Get First UK IT Job?

sferg410

Hello, I am in the UK, 38 plenty of personal home computer experience (not programming) and need to make a career change in to IT Industry. I am not to worried about starting on a fairly low pay (£18k) for a year or 2.

I am A+ certified and advertise locally as a guy to fix/improve/speed up your computers etc.

What I would like to know is what certs would be advised to break into IT and get that first job in any IT area really.
I have been working through the Microsoft Windows 7 book for the 70-680 exam, which I guess I would follow with the 70-685 exam but so much of it seems so out of date.

Would people recommend these 2 exams as the next logical step or others?
CompTIA is not that well know in the UK and they seem extremely over-priced and not that sought after.
What after (or maybe before) the Win 7 exams..... Win 8? Win 10? ITIL?
Should I be studying the server 2012 MCSA exams first rather than Win 7?
I have done and passed the Stanley College VMware online course so I am able to study for the VCP-DCV exam if it would be recommended.

I was hoping to get an entry level job just from my A+ and general experience but that is not going to happen so could really use some advice.
Thanks

Pseudonym

A+, Network+, ITIL Foundation.

I actually got a desktop support job with just my A+ and experience of repairing PCs, laptops etc. Passed net+ 2 days after I got my job. CompTIA is very much recognised here, but more importantly it will give you the knowledge to get through an interview. Net+ is a must. The desktop certs, and especially the server certs aren't entry level, and if anything could put an employer off, as they might see you as high risk in terms of ship jumping.

sferg410

Pseudonym wrote: »

A+, Network+, ITIL Foundation.

I actually got a desktop support job with just my A+ and experience of repairing PCs, laptops etc. Passed net+ 2 days after I got my job. CompTIA is very much recognised here, but more importantly it will give you the knowledge to get through an interview. Net+ is a must. The desktop certs, and especially the server certs aren't entry level, and if anything could put an employer off, as they might see you as high risk in terms of ship jumping.

OK good opinion. Does anyone else agree the CompTIA Network+ is a must for getting started in IT in the UK?
Would CCENT not be a better choice due to being half of a CCNA, which of course is a good cert and in turn would supersede the Network+?

I am also wondering if it is a good idea to study 2 things at once or 1 thing fully and that done in a quicker time for example from what Pseudonym said, study Network+ and ITIL Foundation at the same time or just Network+, pass that and then ITIL. Anyone have an opinion on that?
Thanks

sferg410

Any further opinions?

Tom789

Do you have a more preferable IT area where you would like to work ? Easy way would be to start in IT service desk in a bigger company (shouldnt be hard to get a job offer) and show a desire to improve and excel there to get offered internal promotion.

sferg410

Tom789 wrote: »

Do you have a more preferable IT area where you would like to work ? Easy way would be to start in IT service desk in a bigger company (shouldnt be hard to get a job offer) and show a desire to improve and excel there to get offered internal promotion.

"shouldn't be hard to get a job offer" - are you joking????I might do some work for myself but i have been looking for an entry level kind or service desk position for just over a year now and NOTHING!!!Everything goes through recruitment agencies now, probably apply for at least one thing everyday that just goes to an agency and in general, nothing ever in response. I have had just 3 unsuccesful interviews in a year!

UncleB

sferg410 wrote: »

"shouldn't be hard to get a job offer" - are you joking????I might do some work for myself but i have been looking for an entry level kind or service desk position for just over a year now and NOTHING!!!Everything goes through recruitment agencies now, probably apply for at least one thing everyday that just goes to an agency and in general, nothing ever in response. I have had just 3 unsuccesful interviews in a year!

I have 28 years experience in IT and about 40 certs to my name and it can still take hundreds of job applications to get a decent position. Don't let that put you off though as there are ways to get recognised.

Certs wise I would add Windows 8, ITIL Foundation and when you can afford it, the other CompTIA exams discussed earlier in the thread.

Certs are only a secondary issue for you though - you need experience (yes, catch 22 I know), so look at places you can volunteer time to help them with their IT (charities, community associations etc) which will grow your confidence, help you network and look good on the CV.

You also need to get smarter on targeting the companies who may hire you - get onto LinkedIn and look for jobs on there - apply for loads and keep on doing it (it can take a lot of attempts so don't lose heart).

For jobs, Jobserve.co.uk is the main job site - get setup on there and use search criteria words like support, helpdesk and desktop to narrow down the results - be willing to take a lower rate to start just to get the experience if you can possibly afford it.

Also go old school and write to loads of local companies to ask if they have any openings for an entry level IT person on their helpdesk - it will cost you postage and envelopes/paper but has been known to get results.

The market is hot at the moment so there are plenty of posts and not so many applicants so you should be able to get some interviews if you get your CV polished to use the right sort of words and phrases that recruiters look for. There are plenty of examples of this on this site.

Understanding the market and not letting it crush your spirit is going to help a lot, so prepare for it like a battle plan, work out what you need, your strategy of attack, how to keep enough reserves to cover unexpected events and a timeline for the attack - well more like a siege...

We can help you to an extent, but it sounds like you have already done the hard part and decided on your career then made the first big steps.

Good luck with your search
Iain

sferg410

Thanks for that helpful reply. Hard to find actual companies now though, an example of how tech has made things harder.. Before you could just go to relevant sections of the Yellow Pages and find lots of companies in industry you are looking for...

You might be able to help with a question though.. I am guessing ITIL Foundation would be a lot quicker to study for than the Network+, would it be worth doing that first to get it done and on the CV? I don't really know anything about it and how important it is to employers.

xnx

A+ is pointless in the UK unfortunately, in my experience anyway!

You'll just have to find a company willing to take the chance with you... people do discriminate

sferg410

xnx wrote: »

A+ is pointless in the UK unfortunately, in my experience anyway!

You'll just have to find a company willing to take the chance with you... people do discriminate

I am not really concerned about A+ as I already have it, so if it means anything or not is just not relevant. But what can I say when you have such awful taste in a football team!

varelg

So the decision is to get into IT, some certs and experience already there. Seems like you already got into IT but would like to work for someone else?
Maybe it's time to consider which segment of IT you'd like to get in? My impression is you'd like to stick with end-user support. In that case, I'd add an Apple cert and get some extra Apple expertise. Their customer base is mainly composed of people who aren't exactly do-it-yourselvers, so there's an opening there for someone who'd like to stick with desktop support. But I don't know what's the market penetration of Apple in the UK...

sferg410

No one gives a **** about Apple in the UK and I rarely see a job spec that asks for any kind of Apple qualification. Maybe a bit of experience of using it but that is about it.
I pretty much think any kind of Apple cert would be a waste of time and money in the UK.

As for area, I would like to end up doing network and server stuff, actually get to play with the hardware and set it all up, not just admin on group policy forever!! Cisco and the like so obviously future certs would be CCNP, Linux etc. but it is way to early for that. Also you dont generally just walk into that kind of job, usually have to do some help desk first.

Finally I am not really in the IT sector. I can fix computers, i advertise and try to get a bit of work from private users, but not much work is forthcoming. If i could earn 50k working for myself doing that kind of thing i would, but that does not seem likely so i am looking for a employed position which will never make me well off either i doubt. Very few do well working for someone else!! But that's life.

UncleB

If you have looked at the market in the UK much you will notice that a £50k salary probably is not going to happen until you have a fair bit of experience and specialisation to offer:
1st Line Support/Helpdesk salaries in UK - reed.co.uk
Average salary: £25,678
2nd Line Support salaries in UK - reed.co.uk
Average salary: £31,011

Most companies no longer even fix computers - they are on a 3 year warranty so get replaced if they fail either under warranty or as a write-off as it is not cost effective to mess about replacing components.

Cisco and server stuff is a small part of most companies IT headcount with the majority working on support, app dev and other roles (project management, service delivery, training etc) so the higher up the tree you go, the less jobs available. Just to manage your expectations - you are better placed to start on the helpdesk or desktop support and work up from there.

For finding companies - every company uses IT and any with more than 100 employees will have a dedicated support person in most cases, so walk round your neighborhood, list the bigger companies you see and write to their HR dept asking to be considered for a role. It may take many hundreds of applications but it is a way to keep busy.

Look on all the job sites and agency boards (although most use Jobserve), linkedIn and ask anyone you know if they have an IT department you can send a letter to.

It is like a full time job in itself to find one, but then it is the first step on a journey of a thousand miles....

Keep your chin up old chap
Iain

Tom789

sferg410 wrote: »

"shouldn't be hard to get a job offer" - are you joking????I might do some work for myself but i have been looking for an entry level kind or service desk position for just over a year now and NOTHING!!!Everything goes through recruitment agencies now, probably apply for at least one thing everyday that just goes to an agency and in general, nothing ever in response. I have had just 3 unsuccesful interviews in a year!

I was not joking. It might be different and more difficult in the UK. Im from other EU country and saw what kind of people were being hired for service desk positions constantly (for a multinational financial services company none the less) - the more important aspect was very good spoken and written English and the training was provided on the job (university degree was required). Plenty of people who proved themselves made out to a much better positions within a year or two as well! I think its best for you to keep trying to improve your skills. Also, do the recruiting companies give you any suggestions why you are being passed upon or just straight up ignore you ?

varelg

sferg410 wrote: »

As for area, I would like to end up doing network and server stuff, actually get to play with the hardware and set it all up, not just admin on group policy forever!! Cisco and the like so obviously future certs would be CCNP, Linux etc. but it is way to early for that. Also you dont generally just walk into that kind of job, usually have to do some help desk first.

Wait... What?! Plenty of admins would beg to disagree with your thinking "help desk labor and then from there we'll see". Seems like you already set the goals for yourself and where you want to be. So why not just reach for them starting today? Is your thing Linux? Networks? Then jump on it today. There's no graduation requirement of any kind.
There is this buzzword " cloud " so maybe you should consider getting a cert focused on the cloud. I am thinking of Amazon range of certs. Combined with an entry level Linux cert, like Linux Essentials or some equivalent, and you got yourself a 2.0 resume.

sferg410

Tom789 wrote: »

I was not joking. It might be different and more difficult in the UK. Im from other EU country and saw what kind of people were being hired for service desk positions constantly (for a multinational financial services company none the less) - the more important aspect was very good spoken and written English and the training was provided on the job (university degree was required). Plenty of people who proved themselves made out to a much better positions within a year or two as well! I think its best for you to keep trying to improve your skills. Also, do the recruiting companies give you any suggestions why you are being passed upon or just straight up ignore you ?

They are recruitment companies, they just ignore you.

UncleB

A useful technique here is to get the eye of the recruitment agent with you cover letter.
Let's say for example you were applying for a Jobserve ad for a service desk ninja position through an agency - start with the name of the agent (this shows it is not just a boiler plate application letter) and work from there, for example:

Dear Bob,

Re: JS-12345678 - Service Desk Ninja Required, London

I would like to apply for the Service Desk Ninja position based in London.

To save your valuable time, here are the headlines for me:

* MUST be ITIL Certified - I have ITIL Foundation and Expert certifications
* Previous experience of getting to work on time and looking awake - I fly my winged horse Pegasus to work so never get stuck in traffic
* know Citrix inside out - I've been fixing Citrix faults for 10 years so yes - I'm its daddy!
* At LEAST 3 years Windows 7 experience - how about 7 years - I was working on beta testing it and supported it ever since

I am a Service Desk Ninja with 10 years experience in a wide range of Microsoft and Citrix products and have a black belt with chrome throwing stars to boot - I love the work and it shows in how well I get on with resolving the calls and keeping the customers happy.

I have ITIL Foundation, MCPs in Windows 7, 8 and Server 2012 and a Ninja Cycling Proficiency certificates.

I am available on 2 weeks notice (available for interviews immediately) and can provide references as part of a conditional offer.

thank you

You need to put in the key "must have" points from the ad to make sure you get their boxes ticked in the first few seconds otherwise it will be passed over for the next application.

Notice period is useful as some need an urgent start so they know if you are even a contender.

Add a bit more about your skills and experience but keep it brief and don't forget to attach your CV with a phone number (they rarely use email for some reason until you are already in the running for an interview). Add the phone number to the cover letter too.

I've used that technique recently and am getting about a 20% call rate from agencies compared to less than 5% a year ago.

I hope it helps.
Iain

sferg410

Very good points on technique etc. there, problem is, I do not have the experience or much else yet, so can't really put together any kind of letter like that.
Apart from my A+ cert and the fact that I have used home computers for about 35 years and know my way around them pretty well, there is not a lot else to put in a letter.

jonny72

I'm surprised you're struggling to find an entry level job, maybe it's the area you're in or you're doing something wrong with your cv / job applications.

A few tips;

- Get as much experience as you can in IT and make the most of it on your CV. A great way to do this is to volunteer with a charity, they are always looking for people with IT skills, it looks good on your CV and it's good experience.
- Make sure you're CV is as good as it can be, get some advice and help with it from a friend or on this forum.
- Apply for every job you can find on job listing websites, just send your CV which will speed things up.
- Send a speculative application to every local IT support company you can, with a cover letter. They are going to be your best option.
- CompTIA are great certs to have but not many people know what they are. Instead, go for Windows desktop exams and ITIL foundation.

sferg410

So it seems stuck in the same place... One person says do CompTIA Network+ maybe even Security+ as they are entry level certs, another says don't bother with CompTIA, do Windows certs....
One says Windows are not entry level certs and most say the Windows 7 certs are actually really rather hard to pass.
The only thing people seem to agree on is ITIL Foundation, which is exactly hard, neither is it actually a tech cert.
Talk about confusing!!!!!!!

UncleB

sferg410 wrote: »

One person says do CompTIA Network+ maybe even Security+ as they are entry level certs, another says don't bother with CompTIA, do Windows certs....
One says Windows are not entry level certs and most say the Windows 7 certs are actually really rather hard to pass.
The only thing people seem to agree on is ITIL Foundation, which is exactly hard, neither is it actually a tech cert.
Talk about confusing!!!!!!!

Ah, such is the wonderful, many textured world of IT!

There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to the knowledge you gain through the certs as different companies use different technology and different hiring managers have their own opinions on what matters.

You are looking for common certs that most will want so you are on the right track with:
helpdesk / desktop support roles - ITIL and probably Windows 8.1 (I think Win 7 has been discontinued and 8.1 is rapidly going the same way)
network support - Comptia Network+ and possibly Security+

Not many companies bother with the internals of computers anymore so the A+ is not so relevant now.

The above should give you a good starting point, but until you have a role then I would not invest too much in areas that don't really get you interested. Once you have a role, that's when you can really go to town and make the most of the exposure to cement the learning you get from doing more certs, with the added bonus that your employer should pay for the exams and books (but probably not the course fees or time off, so get good at self study).

Sorry it isn't more clear cut, but this reflects the market. PM me if you want any specific help.

Good luck.
Iain

sferg410

I think I will do Network+ then as my network knowledge in not great and I would like to eventually do network support and actually be hands on with equipment etc.

All Windows 8 exam are being discontinued in July this year.
Windows 7 exams still running however the Win 7 MCSA has already been cancelled. If you do the 2 Win 7 exams you will still have a Win 7 MCSA in your head and personally I would still put it on my CV but Microsoft won't officially issue you with a Win 7 MCSA, all very silly really, but that's Microsoft for you. Currently there is no Windows OS MCSA apart from Server.

jonny72

As I said the main Comptia certs are great but from my experiences not many people that do recruitment are familiar with them, or at least not as familiar as they are with the Microsoft, VMware and Cisco certification programmes. For an MSP the Microsoft and VMware certs are more important as some of them help towards them getting partner status, I've seen people recruited purely due to them having a cert that was urgently needed for that purpose.

The Microsoft exams will be harder than Comptia, though you don't need to get a certification - passing an individual exam would be fine to start with.

The main thing is to get some experience on your CV, paid or unpaid, anything will do.

UncleB

sferg410 wrote: »

Currently there is no Windows OS MCSA apart from Server.

The Win 10 MCSA is out now - it is a little confusing as you need some Win 8.1 exams to complete it, but some background to it is elsewhere on these boards:
http://www.techexams.net/forums/windows-10-exams/115916-mcsa-windows-10-released.html

I picked up the training materials for it and will run through it in the next few weeks.

Network+ is the way to go for your interests by the sound of it. I always found networking far too dull and disconnected from the end users for my tastes, but then again I'm a people person

thanks
Iain

sferg410

Networking to dull... is it?

I always got the impression that Windows support is just sat on a help desk replying to emails and phone calls all day, all pretty much about the same issues.

Basically I wouldn't want to get stuck at a computer implementing group policies all day for a career!

dustervoice

When i migrated to UK i had both A+ and N+ on my CV. During many interviews i was asked "what are they?" That's when i knew those certs were just taking up an extra line. Now they are both removed and expired. After N+ i would suggest you do CCNA or some other vendor certs for networking.

sferg410

I agree and think that is the case, it is also an expensive exam.

I did start going through a CCENT book a while back but it was just like a foreign language to me.

I would rather go straight into something more worthy like CCENT/CCNA R&S, but is it to difficult for someone with no real world server/router experience or would Network+ be worth it for the general overall education it would give compared to CCNA which of course is Cisco specific?

Ede890

I would say if anything do the network+ first it's just basic networking fundamentals you need to know before looking at ccent in my opinion and it makes it easier. now am not saying actually take the exam for net+ but learn the material then from there move on to Cisco stuff if you want to CCNA cert. Atleast that's what I did....

barberj66

If you are looking for some experience it may be worth trying some local schools/colleges/universities to see if you can volunteer if you have the spare time. They tend to be understaffed at times and during the holidays when the students are not around a lot of work is done replacing kit and upgrading systems. It would at least give you some items to put on your CV.

If you are looking towards networking don't be put off with the CCNA being Cisco specific you will find a lot of the background knowledge is relevant across all disciplines of networking and even though the commands on the switches are Cisco specific you will find they can be carried across other vendors. I did my CCNA years ago when working with Cisco switches then we swapped all out to Dell then my current company use HP. I've managed to be able to do anything I've needed to across all of them. Once you have that base level of knowledge picking other things up becomes easier.

Also if you haven't already upload your CV to all the job websites, most interview's I've had and positions gained I've never applied for the recruiters have contact me. I appreciate without experience this may be harder for you but get yourself out there. If you come across a good person at a recruitment agency and they realise you are willing to work and put the time and effort in they will put in some hours trying to find you a position.

Most of all keep going you will get that break you need there's always that one opportunity out there that comes good!

Fadakartel

sferg410 wrote: »

I agree and think that is the case, it is also an expensive exam.

I did start going through a CCENT book a while back but it was just like a foreign language to me.

I would rather go straight into something more worthy like CCENT/CCNA R&S, but is it to difficult for someone with no real world server/router experience or would Network+ be worth it for the general overall education it would give compared to CCNA which of course is Cisco specific?

You could check out the Cisco networking academy. personally I went through the Cisco academy to get my CCNA since I had no real world experience.