Good reason to go for CCNP?

Hi, i recently got my CCNA and prior to that the Network+ along with my BSc in computer science a couple of years previously. I have not actually been employed per say in a networking role before and have been doing self employed computer/network technician roles to support my learning and myself in general since leaving university. I decided that networking is the way i wanted to go because i really enjoy it to and i think I'm good at it as well. However, i have found it hard to find jobs in network engineering positions or along those lines. I can probably get a role as a first line support technician working with windows server because there are just so many more of them about when compared to Cisco networking jobs where I'm from, but this is just not what i want and i dont have the passion for windows server like i do whe working in networking and with Cisco equipment in general. I did have an interview last week for a network engineer position that i thought i did really well in and was able to answer every technical question they asked me with relative ease. When i received feedback from it they said they really like me as a person and with knowledge to, but my experience is what held me back. My question is how do i get the "experience" if I'm not given a chance?
That's why I'm considering going for the CCNP, that will put me ahead of people who might have the same qualifications as me but will probably not have the CCNP, i have looked at some of the material and i can definitely do it. I'm just wondering if its a good idea to pursue and it'll get me anywhere? It's just frustrating when you know you can do the role but since i haven't been in that position before, getting the chance is so difficult. I'm thinking the CCNP will help me stand out even more and will relinquish any doubts employers have over my "experience"?

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koz24

Go for it. It could also hurt you though, since if you are "over qualified" an employer might be afraid you will leave them for something better at the drop of a hat. You will have to explain why you went for CCNP with limited experience. Don't BS them, tell them the truth: you wanted more knowledge to have an advantage over other candidates. As a CCNP someone should give you a chance in a JR Network Engineer or JR Network Admin role.

Silverymoon

It is very hard to get a CCNP level job. This video explains why.
Hey Employers! ...don't try to find the qualities of the person you just FIRED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG95-F_RZVE

Robbo777

Well my plan would be to get applying for the CCNA level and junior level roles in networking engineering and hope that the CCNP will help me get an advantage in getting those positions

shortstop20

Robbo777 wrote: »

Well my plan would be to get applying for the CCNA level and junior level roles in networking engineering and hope that the CCNP will help me get an advantage in getting those positions

I don't agree with this line of thought. Work on another CCNA or just study various parts of networking like understanding how TCP works or how to interpret packet captures.

Silverymoon

If you really want to try and get a CCNP job, you need to create a blog, videos or a likedin profile of your studies. Something used to show evidence of your skills to someone who is doing recruitment. Most CCNA jobs state 3 years experience in the same role were I live. The problem with getting a ccna job with a ccnp is that many companies will ask for skills a CCIE R&S has. Like MPLS for example, not covered at the CCNA or CCNP but a major part of the CCIE. When you go to interview you not only have to know your ccnp but also many CCIE topics. This is for a ccna job, the recruitment agencies are really trying to find a replacement for a guy the employer showed the door too. Now they are looking for a CCIE written, with a whole load of skills and experience but at the wage of a CCNA. The employee they had before had all these skills but they let him leave, let him go or fired him.

Heres an example of the problem, no CCNA could do this job after his exam: CCNA level Customer Engineer- BT Wholesale Broadband - MANCHESTER - CWJobs.co.ukBroadband/Ethernet - CCNA level 2nd line Customer Engineer- MANCHESTER
CCNA level Customer Engineering - broadband/ethernet position for our leading edge ISP/Telco client that requires a broad range of network skills from broadband through to VPN technologies. Of particular interest will engineers with an ISP background with experience of offering 2nd line support for the BT Wholesale Broadband and Ethernet product sets. It is expected that a major part of the role will be working with core engineering and transmission teams to assist in the roll-out of the emerging portfolio of networking products. An appreciation of how fully converged networks supporting data and voice products are managed and deployed is desired.
You will be offering 2nd line support to the customer facing support teams and act as centre of expertise for related problems and escalation into our suppliers. You will also work closely with our projects and provisioning teams to ensure that customer related projects are efficiently and seamlessly transitioned into the in-service environment. Knowledge of Cisco CPE configuration and deployment is required and essential part of this role.
You will be expected to be available for ‘out-of-hours’ support and be part of the ‘on-call’ rota.
Qualifications/Skill Required
Essential
·Highly IP literate, preferably with CCNA qualifications
·Sound knowledge of DNS, Radius
·Routing protocols, internal and external, RIP, OSPF, BGP plus a clear understanding of how the Internet is structured in terms of peering and transit relationships.
·In depth experience of BT IPStream, Datastream and 21C replacements, WBC & WBMC.
·Sound experience of supporting ADSL variants and CPE interfacing to DSLAM/MSAN
·Familiar with common Internet protocols, e.g. SNMP, SMTP, ICMP
·Confident in use of network analysis and packet-sniffing tools
·Configuring and deploying QoS enabled networks to support converged data and voice networks
·Advanced knowledge of routers, switches, firewalls, Access Control Lists (ACLs)
Desirable
·Knowledge of core routing devices to support MPLS based VPN, e.g. Redback, Juniper, Cisco

·Sound experience of configuring switching technologies – Spanning Tree Protocol, VLANs, Dot1q,QinQ.
·Experience of supporting interfaces to BT broadband handover points, IPCentrals, BRAS
·Interworking between IP and TDM protocols (Time-division multiplexing?), SIP/C7/Q931

·Session Border Controllers
·Linux skills
Applicants will typically be qualified to degree level in an engineering or related technical discipline and at least 3 years’ experience in a technical customer facing role in an ISP/Telecommunications environment. An essential requirement will be a good knowledge of broadband technologies and demonstrable experience of working with BT Wholesale and the processes/tools employed for diagnosing in-service problems.
Salary: £25k - £30K dependent on experience + on-call payments + Excellent benefits

Robbo777

I'm really just trying to get a CCNA job at the moment to be honest! I really do this i am more than capable of doing whatever is potenially required! its just where do i go from here because i think i have all the required qualifications for one and I'm studying to do the CCNP to which is going well.
I just dont know what else to do to be honest. Is it just a case of carry on applying or do I need the CCNP to get me the edge? Or will it even be helpful to me in my current situation?

Cheers

kohr-ah

Go for it.

Doesn't mean you cant keep applying for jobs.
If the employer asks you can tell them you have a passion for this. You enjoy it and want to further your knowledge in it.
Even at a junior level it will help you understand what you see and let you ask more in depth questions.

Otherwise you can always pick a subconcentration CCNA if you'd like also. But if R/S is your passion start the CCNP.

Robbo777

I have tried applying for CCNA roles but i am just not getting anywhere unfortunately, its just frustrating to be honest. How do the people who are in network engineer roles now get into them? At some point they would've had to of had no experience also, so had did they even get a job in it to start with?

koz24

Robbo777 wrote: »

I have tried applying for CCNA roles but i am just not getting anywhere unfortunately, its just frustrating to be honest. How do the people who are in network engineer roles now get into them? At some point they would've had to of had no experience also, so had did they even get a job in it to start with?

There are so many things that could be the problem here it's hard to imagine just one. It could be your resume. It could be your delivery and how you present yourself. It could be salary demands-- are you asking for the moon in NOC roles? It could be the technical interview. Are you getting to the technical interviews and past the HR screen? We have to know more information of where you're getting dropped.

Robbo777

koz24 wrote: »

There are so many things that could be the problem here it's hard to imagine just one. It could be your resume. It could be your delivery and how you present yourself. It could be salary demands-- are you asking for the moon in NOC roles? It could be the technical interview. Are you getting to the technical interviews and past the HR screen? We have to know more information of where you're getting dropped.

I honestly dont care about the money at the moment, whatever gets me into one. The last interview (the only one so far) i answered all the questions correctly and was told that after the interview, the feedback also was very positive as they really liked me. It literally only came down the experience.
My resume is very well done in my honest opinion and is not the problem.
Is it just going to come down to getting lucky with someone taking a gamble on someone with no "industry experience" or should i just be going for the windows roles that are not related to cisco or networking in my opinion whatsoever.
I wonder how people get networking roles because the other option is Windows server roles, i personally dont see the connection between them and cisco related networking engineer roles? The 2 aren't connected or dont overlap apart from the slightest bit of ip configuration in windows! as far as every else you study for in the CCNA etc... nothing is touched in windows roles. So i suppose my question is how does anyone get themselves into cisco jobs when there are no junior roles either and the roles that you have to start on are windows related? Not an ounce of real networking in them?

ande0255

For me it was pure luck, I had 2-3 years with mixed pc hard support, helpdesk support, etc. I got a random message from a recruiter on Linkedin, from a staffing agency that was a startup business with 2 people working their, that got me a job interview at a local MSP for the voice group.

I went into the interview and they started with the technical questions, and I told them flat out I couldn't answer many if any technical phone questions if any due to lack of experience, but that I have a constant desire to learn new technologies both on and off work hours.

The manager heeled his engineer sitting next to him to grill me on the technical side, and just had a personality chat to see if he had a good vibe from me, I walked out thinking there is no way I am getting that job, and almost 2.5 years later here I am working on literally all things networking across all vendor platforms.

Just cast your net as wide as possible, eventually you will get your chance, you just need to wait for your break and stay ready to tackle it once it happens. I kept trying to talk myself out of changing jobs for several days, because there is always a reason to fear change, but I ultimately took the leap and it payed off pretty well experience wise.

Now I just need to find a job that will pay me what my skill set is worth, and I am all set

Good luck to you sir!

koz24

Robbo777 wrote: »

I honestly dont care about the money at the moment, whatever gets me into one. The last interview (the only one so far) i answered all the questions correctly and was told that after the interview, the feedback also was very positive as they really liked me. It literally only came down the experience.
My resume is very well done in my honest opinion and is not the problem.
Is it just going to come down to getting lucky with someone taking a gamble on someone with no "industry experience" or should i just be going for the windows roles that are not related to cisco or networking in my opinion whatsoever.
I wonder how people get networking roles because the other option is Windows server roles, i personally dont see the connection between them and cisco related networking engineer roles? The 2 aren't connected or dont overlap apart from the slightest bit of ip configuration in windows! as far as every else you study for in the CCNA etc... nothing is touched in windows roles. So i suppose my question is how does anyone get themselves into cisco jobs when there are no junior roles either and the roles that you have to start on are windows related? Not an ounce of real networking in them?

Wait so you've only had one interview so far? You got to have some patience man. You could have been the second option there but the first candidate was just better, it happens. Come back after say 10 or so interviews and if you still haven't landed a gig then there is a problem somewhere.

As far as Windows, some smaller companies want a jack of all trades who can do Cisco, Microsoft, VMWare, etc. You should be targetting Junior/NOC type roles that are Cisco only if that's what you want to do. You can get MCSA certified, it won't hurt, but it will take a while.

ImYourOnlyDJ

If I'm reading correctly all of your IT employment has been self employed? You may have good luck going to a small business or MSP. In corporate IT you typically have to spend time in trenches working a lower level positions (Help Desk, Desktop Support, etc) before you can get to where you want. The times of getting a CCNA and jumping into a network admin or engineer position are pretty much over. Sure there are exceptions especially if you know the right people and if you are really bright. So I would recommend getting into as high of a position (Help Desk, NOC Tech, Desktop Support) as you can in a company that has a networking positions. Once you get in shine bright and let your intentions to be in networking be known.

For me I landed A+ and Net+ then got a Help Desk job. From there I landed the CCENT worked hard and was moved to a network/system technician. Here I really shined bright, took the CCNA, and am in the process of moving to a network engineer position.

ImYourOnlyDJ

Robbo777 wrote: »

Is it just going to come down to getting lucky with someone taking a gamble on someone with no "industry experience" or should i just be going for the windows roles that are not related to cisco or networking in my opinion whatsoever.
I wonder how people get networking roles because the other option is Windows server roles, i personally dont see the connection between them and cisco related networking engineer roles? The 2 aren't connected or dont overlap apart from the slightest bit of ip configuration in windows! as far as every else you study for in the CCNA etc... nothing is touched in windows roles. So i suppose my question is how does anyone get themselves into cisco jobs when there are no junior roles either and the roles that you have to start on are windows related? Not an ounce of real networking in them?

Just to touch on this networking positions are typically no longer considered entry level. In most cases its far easier to get into networking if you have systems experience than it is to jump right into networking as or from an entry level position. I've heard stories of engineers getting walked out the door for only ten minutes of down time and most IT managers are very very careful about who they let touch the networking gear.