Can you define "CCIE level experience"?

I was reading in the other topic here about how much it cost to get your CCIE, and there were references to "CCIE level job experience" rather than just the cert itself, being required for some jobs.

So this has me wondering, what exactly is "CCIE level job experience"? What can a newly made CCIE do that a CCNP with 5 years' experience can't? Would it be in certain categories, like Routing and Switching, more so than others, like maybe Wireless?

Could it be that a CCNP R&S might be running and maintaining a network for a large company, but if said company were to expand to a new building in a new area, and its network had to be entirely created, they'd want a CCIE to do that instead?

I think this question is open to a wide range of opinions.

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networker050184

People with certifications have such a varying level of knowledge and experience I think saying 'CCIE level' or any certification level makes no sense. Expert level in networking to me means you can build a scalable network design that fits the needs of the applications that run over it. Much easier said than done!

Bardlebee

Its pretty much the same statement I tell people, which is probably a shared view "certifications will get you the interview, your experience and actual knowledge will get you the job".

This is why you hear so often people are tired of interviewing CCNP's and even CCIE's with no idea on what they are doing. Not just that they don't remember some stuff they learned, but legitimately don't have the level skill that the certification assumes you would. The most damning of these instances is if a CCIE R/S for example doesn't understand how EIGRP Query's work as opposed to a CCIE R/S not knowing how some granular function multicast works. One of the two you may not work with all day every day, so its excusable, but a CCIE should know some basic functions of popular IGP's.

It all comes down to personal preference. But someone without certs could get a job just as easily as someone with a CCIE. If they both are equal in knowledge and strengths that is. The question really is, who will get to the interview room when looking at resumes. Obviously the CCIE would, given equal experience. Perhaps the non-cert guy would too, but its just an example. At the end of the day, the cert is just a paper.

EDIT: A big reason I got my bachelors degree was for the "preferred bachelors" or "required bachelors" stamp for HR filters. Honestly, I think that is the main reason I spent all those years on it, because I didn't learn much networking from it. :P

AwesomeGarrett

I would define "CCIE level experience" as a network engineer which has experience with the protocol on the CCIE syllabus.

lostindaylight

To me it means someone who has been responsible for network infrastructure where the scope of impact for a failure or outage is organization affecting.

At that level you need to be able to see the big picture, but you you need to understand the details.

And more than just technical knowledge, you have to know when how to stage and implement changes safely, how to quickly diagnose problems in a large infrastructure, and how to work with people; inclusive of all the individual issues and agendas they bring to the table, and get things done. It means knowing which battles to fight and which ones to let go.

A comparison might be a single engine Cessna pilot who has been studying how to fly a commercial jets and has passed every exam in the field, versus a 747 pilot with a decade of experience. On paper they may have passed the same exams and the cessna pilot's technical knowledge may be more up to date, but which one are you going to entrust your well-being to?

Experience does not necessarily equate to ability, you can suck at something for ten years. In this case, it comes down to having the tools and know how to work at a given level of responsibility.

-lid

AwesomeGarrett

I like it but to me that sounds like a job description for any senior network role. The CCIE only certifies your skills with the technology.

Lid, would you consider what you wrote as "CCIE level experience"?

lostindaylight

Awesome,

yes, but the qualifier would be the size and complexity of the infrastructure. Hence the airplane analogy.

DPG

I would say that it is someone that can come in and clean up another CCIE's poorly built/managed network.

powmia

DPG wrote: »

I would say that it is someone that can come in and clean up another CCIE's poorly built/managed network.

LOL

Other than that. If you held a job as a CCIE or a job that other CCIE's have held, that's CCIE level experience.