Opinions on Job Offer

markulous

So right now I work at VMware providing support for various products. I like the company and benefits but a lot of people stepping down and getting laid off is a pretty big bummer. My goal was to get into their Infosec department, but they never are hiring and their director just stepped down so doesn't look like that'll happen.

So since I'm trying to get into an Infosec job, I got an offer from a SIEM software company. The role would be providing product support, identifying attacks, etc. for this SIEM. It's one of the best ones out there also. The offer they gave me is odd though. So right now I make 62k (hourly) with a 3k yearly bonus. They offered me 55k (salary but with no real OT/on call), which is a paycut but it should give me the experience I need there to either move up there to a full blown security position or go somewhere else.

The kicker here is they said after 6 months, there's a mandatory review and as long as I meet the requirements, my salary goes from 55k to 65k. 6 months after that, there's yet another mandatory review, and if the requirements are met, I go from 65k to 75k. I've never heard of anyone doing that. I'm dealing directly with the company and their HR so it's not some 3rd party recruiter feeding me crap. Has anyone ever heard of this? Assuming this requirements are tangible and achievable I think this may be the best opportunity for me to get into an Infosec role.

jeremywatts2005

New job sounds great if you can get it in writing that there is the review and the percentage of the review is x amount of dollars if you complete x. However if it is not in writing then I would be very careful. The old saying is if it is isn't in writing then it does not exist. Verbal promises are great, but they need to put it on paper so you can have something to go back to.

markulous

I sent the recruiter/HR person an email last night asking for that. I think it's only fair that I get something in writing. They stated they aren't doing this for just me, it's anyone that gets hired from here on out, so it should be a written policy they can forward me. I don't need it notarized or in my offer letter, but something I can fall back on to reference would be nice.

Russ5813

The 6 months just sounds like a probationary period and isn't all that uncommon. It's also not unheard of to get a raise after a successful review. I imagine this would be detailed in the formal offer letter they should send you.

If you can afford the pay cut, it sounds like a pretty good deal for the long-term.

636-555-3226

I can't speak for Splunk or Q1 or whoever it is (I'd avoid ArcSight since iirc they're spinning off or cutting back or something their security division), but I've seen a couple of bait & switch tactics just like that from companies in the past. I've also seen companies live up to their promise, but I've seen enough NOT live up to it that I personally wouldn't put a lot of points towards their 6/12 months plans. Maybe counter 60k to start (so you aren't losing much), 70k after 6 months and 80k after 12 months. It's free to ask and it isn't that much of a jump. Once they say no, counter 60k to start, 65k after 6 months and 75k after 12.

I know what you're going through. Job offers are such a pain, esp. the uncertainty with your ability to leverage any counter offers

Hammer80

I concur, definitely get it in writing. HR people still lie they just happen to lie less than 3rd party recruiters. Also get any documentation prior regarding benefits, 401k, etc...

NetworkNewb

Doing product support doesn't sound exciting, but that fact it is a SIEM could definitely be interesting. Wonder if they offer good training incentives since I'm assuming they have to stay on the edge of security.

The offer is definitely different, but as long as they have it in writing I don't see a problem. As long as the requirements aren't anything crazy.

markulous

636-555-3226 wrote: »

I can't speak for Splunk or Q1 or whoever it is (I'd avoid ArcSight since iirc they're spinning off or cutting back or something their security division), but I've seen a couple of bait & switch tactics just like that from companies in the past. I've also seen companies live up to their promise, but I've seen enough NOT live up to it that I personally wouldn't put a lot of points towards their 6/12 months plans. Maybe counter 60k to start (so you aren't losing much), 70k after 6 months and 80k after 12 months. It's free to ask and it isn't that much of a jump. Once they say no, counter 60k to start, 65k after 6 months and 75k after 12.

I know what you're going through. Job offers are such a pain, esp. the uncertainty with your ability to leverage any counter offers

I asked if they'd be willing to go to more or give me a sign on bonus but I guess they set the pay scale "in stone".

Yeah it definitely is a pain. I can live with the paycut but I think it's only fair I get it in writing for the pay increases. I'll get good experience here to get a Security Analyst or other blue team position I think, so worst case is they don't follow through and I go somewhere else with a better resume.

markulous

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Doing product support doesn't sound exciting, but that fact it is a SIEM could definitely be interesting. Wonder if they offer good training incentives since I'm assuming they have to stay on the edge of security.

The offer is definitely different, but as long as they have it in writing I don't see a problem. As long as the requirements aren't anything crazy.

Product support isn't exciting but with only about 2 years IT experience, it's expected.

They seem to offer good training and growth opportunities for positions that aren't support related.

Danielm7

So the really you'd "lose" 5K in those 6 months, but then be back at your same level with the chance of making 10K more in a year, to get into a field you want to get into that has a higher pay scale from that point forward. I'd do it.

markulous

Yeah, exactly. It was a bit unexpected simply because I was expecting 67-70k right off the bat, but this way is acceptable. It's a good company, great glassdoor reviews, and great experience so I can't really complain.

On a side note, the recruiter replied and is getting me the goals/objectives in writing shortly. At that point I'll put in my notice and sign the offer letter.

EnderWiggin

I'd say don't count on the increase, expect it to not happen. If the job is appealing without, then go for it. That way, if you don't get the bump in rate, it's no big deal. But if you do, it's a very nice bonus.

gespenstern

I get depressed each time seeing how much you guys make. VMware pays 62k? In Denver, CO? Nuts, will never work there. I'd drop them for almost any opportunity (but would never accept a paycut -- completely out of question) and would try to negotiate 75k plus bennies right away and more later. If VMware matches with counteroffer -- I ask them to raise and maybe then I agree. With your certs and education -- head for more, head for making 6 figures as a short-term goal!

GSXR750K2

Congrats...if you sign it that is.

Sounds like I'm a little late, but you know where I stand on the matter based on our conversations. I'm underutilized in an area that isn't IT heavy and I'm quite overpaid for doing it. I'd jump at the chance to move to a larger city to learn new skills while honing my existing ones, and I expect to take pay a cut doing it.

TheFORCE

I'd counter for more from this new company. Don't count on the increase, few are the companies that deliver what they promise. You are in demand, you should be rewarded for it.

iBrokeIT

What do the reviews on Glassdoor look like? I say do it, it's definitely a gamble but it at least it gets you in the field with the SIEM experience. If they don't start living up to their promises you can always take your new skills and experience elsewhere after a year...

markulous

Glassdoor reviews are some of the best I've seen. Only complaint was from tenured employees there getting paid less than new people off the street, which is why they modified this pay structure.

The recruiter called me yesterday and said he literally made me the offer as soon as they figured out this pay structure so they don't have anything officially written up for the raises but did briefly go over what the objectives are for it. I told him if he could write up a rough draft and get it to me that it would be good enough. So hopefully today or early next week it'll happen so I can put in my notice.

kohr-ah

I am going with everyone else and saying if in writing, he** why not.

I am sorry, however, to hear VMware isn't working out. I know you were very happy and excited there but at least you seem very passionate about this new position.

markulous

Yeah, I mean it's not a bad place at all to work. And I'm not desperate to jump ship, but this seems more along the lines of what I'm aiming to do rather than being a vm/sys admin.

Mitechniq

I would also make the same recommendation, do not accept the job unless you are willing to live with the original compensation offer, or they put the salary increase in writing. From time to time we live emotionally and get excited about a job offer. We come on to this forum to get people's opinions that are informative and have no emotional ties with your decision. Do not undervalue your worth that is a mistake I made for eight years based on loyalty, emotions and comfort. I just did a quick search on Indeed.com for VCP in Denver, and there are over 19 positions with a 75k and above salary.


Food for Thought

markulous

I got it in writing on the 6 months mandatory review and what the objectives are so I signed the offer letter. I'm not going to go nuts if the raises don't happen but looks good so far. Put in my two weeks just now.

Mow

Congratulations!

bpenn

markulous wrote: »

I got it in writing on the 6 months mandatory review and what the objectives are so I signed the offer letter. I'm not going to go nuts if the raises don't happen but looks good so far. Put in my two weeks just now.

Awesome, heres to learning new technology and gaining valuable experience! If the salary doesnt end up the way you want, perhaps the knowledge gained can propel you instead.

markulous

That's what I'm hoping. Being a guru with a SIEM (a popular one at that) and witnessing attacks first hand and advising large companies on them should easily get me an Analyst job if these guys don't live up to their end. Either way, it's win/win for me.

coffeeluvr

Congratulations!!

IaHawk

Congrats and best of luck!

impelse

Congrats, the important part is you got the foot in Security, if they do not honor the writing part you can go to another place with already some experience in security

abelamorales

markulous wrote: »

So right now I work at VMware providing support for various products. I like the company and benefits but a lot of people stepping down and getting laid off is a pretty big bummer. My goal was to get into their Infosec department, but they never are hiring and their director just stepped down so doesn't look like that'll happen.

So since I'm trying to get into an Infosec job, I got an offer from a SIEM software company. The role would be providing product support, identifying attacks, etc. for this SIEM. It's one of the best ones out there also. The offer they gave me is odd though. So right now I make 62k (hourly) with a 3k yearly bonus. They offered me 55k (salary but with no real OT/on call), which is a paycut but it should give me the experience I need there to either move up there to a full blown security position or go somewhere else.

The kicker here is they said after 6 months, there's a mandatory review and as long as I meet the requirements, my salary goes from 55k to 65k. 6 months after that, there's yet another mandatory review, and if the requirements are met, I go from 65k to 75k. I've never heard of anyone doing that. I'm dealing directly with the company and their HR so it's not some 3rd party recruiter feeding me crap. Has anyone ever heard of this? Assuming this requirements are tangible and achievable I think this may be the best opportunity for me to get into an Infosec role.

The way I would approach this is ask for $70K salary, no need for a review. Don't undercut yourself! If they like you, they will fork out the cash to get you onboard. The market is really strong right now and finding the right candidates is tough, so use this to your advantage.

I would spend 2-3 years there learning the technology, the ins and out. You can then easily become a presales engineer making $170K a year plus crazy bonuses and opportunities to travel.

Deathmage

abelamorales wrote: »

The way I would approach this is ask for $70K salary, no need for a review. Don't undercut yourself! If they like you, they will fork out the cash to get you onboard. The market is really strong right now and finding the right candidates is tough, so use this to your advantage.

I would spend 2-3 years there learning the technology, the ins and out. You can then easily become a presales engineer making $170K a year plus crazy bonuses and opportunities to travel.

my most recent job that I just accepted, I had three other offers and I just kept going until one of them stop. Lets just say it's above 150k, NEVER leave money on the table....

TechGuru80

I would find out what the review is based on. Are you rated on up-selling services? Do you have a quota for something? How many people get the increase at each point? What kind of turnover exists?

I previously worked in sales and am very aware of "commission" type structures, which this seems to be similar even if just based on metrics. I would also think about your exit strategy. Are you trying to leave after a year or two? It might not matter as much if you are looking for short term. I am pretty confident I know which company this is for...very interesting.

abelamorales

Deathmage wrote: »

my most recent job that I just accepted, I had three other offers and I just kept going until one of them stop. Lets just say it's above 150k, NEVER leave money on the table....

Good stuff - I never understood why people find it taboo to ask for more money. Earn what you are worth, finding good people in this market is very tough. Employers know that we are working to make a good living, we're not working for our own health. If you are well compensated and enjoy the work, you will stay longer.