Graduate School?

globalenjoi

Hey everyone. I'm less than a year into the IT field, so as I gain experience I'm also trying to study for certifications and build my credibility. My undergraduate degree is not in a technical field (foreign languages) so I'm looking for a more technical degree for grad school.

So far, I've been primarily looking at UMUC, Penn State, and Johns Hopkins. Each seem to have good online programs, and none of them require a GRE score (I don't really want to spend time studying for the GRE when that time could be better spent studying for a new certification that could directly impact my career). There's a ton of info here about WGU and UMUC, but can anyone offer insight on Penn State or Johns Hopkins online offerings?

danny069

What programs specifically are you looking at? If its cyber security, I looked into both, and John's Hopkins is a very tough program, that being said it has great notoriety. Penn State was appealing and I don't know much about WGU. I never really planned to go all online, I wanted to be physically present because I feel you learn and network properly. Also, what is your location? I plan to go to Fordham University in the Fall doing their cyber security Master's program, it's hybrid, you meet two full weekends a month (some Friday, all day Sat. and Sun.) and the rest is online. 30 credits they want you to complete in 1 year. All they require is at least a 3.0, no GRE.

kiki162

Hopkins isn't too bad to get into, it's all of the pre-req's that you will need to start. The MS in cybersecurity req. I think around 5 pre-req's, mainly math based courses, and a programming course as well.

UMUC MS in cybersecurity doesn't have pre-req's, is cheaper, and shorter with only 6 classes.

Georgia Tech has an online MS in CS, that is difficult to get into from what I've heard, but is a tough program.

globalenjoi

I have been primarily looking at the cyber security programs of each school. I'd love to go to actual classes, but I'm in Oklahoma City and there really aren't any good graduate programs close nearby. I would have to quit my job and move to do that, and I'm definitely not wanting to let go of my current position. So that steers me towards an online program.

The name attached to Hopkins seems valuable, but is it worth the added difficulty? Is it going to teach me more than Penn State? Comparing the two, I did have some reservations about the degree title. It looks like Penn State programs are Masters of Professional Studies, while UMUC and Johns Hopkins are Masters of Science. Will employers care? I guess I'm kind of concerned that Penn State might provide more real and useful education, as well as prepare me for some certifications, while Johns Hopkins could be more theory and concepts, as it's a known research university.

As far as expense goes, I'm not terribly concerned, as I've still got about 30 months of my GI bill to use. That should cover the majority, if not all, of any public institution, and a solid chunk of a private school. I probably wouldn't even be looking at grad school right now if it wasn't going to be paid for.

danny069

I do like the Penn State program a little better than John's Hopkins because it seems like it has a lot of hands on learning while Hopkins has slightly more theory. They are both credible schools. Employer's will not care if it is called Master of Science or Masters of Professional Studies, they are both Master's Degrees. Congrats to you for using your GI Bill for your Masters. Please let us know which school you decide.

Khaos1911

I'm currently a graduate student in the Penn State (world campus) MPS in Information Science: Cyber Security and Info Assurance program. I like it alot and I generally hate school, lol. This is my first semester, taking two courses simultaneously. Open book/note/google quizzes every week are about 30% of your grade (multi-choice and some essay questions), there's a term paper in each class that's roughly 3500 words (but it's a group effort), Some discussion activities around Info Sec topics where you just provide opinions and expound on some questions being asked, .etc, about 4 two-page papers (Discussion activities) you have to write throughout the semester which are pretty interesting, and some hands on labs where you configure kerberos on some windows servers, set up VPN concentrators on some VMs, some pentesting labs where you do some XSS and buffer overflows on vms, stuff like that. All in all it's pretty interesting so far and has kept my attention. You'll definitely be putting in some hours on all your papers. My irst semester and I can't tell you how many words I've written in this 3 month span

My best advice, is to try and get a good, well rounded team. That first week when you do your introductions, definitely try to team up with the folks who put alot of effort into their intro and have some good experience, it'll make life soooo much easier for you. I can't stress having a good team enough. Going in I expected to be the guy that did most of the work on the team, which is true in one class. But my network management squad are some beasts and we have the highest score on the class in all our assignments so far, so again....Try your best to team up with an experienced, well-rounded group. You can send me a private message if you have any specific questions.

historian1974

For security, I'd like to offer the following for consideration:

https://www.captechu.edu/academics/graduate-academics/cyber-information-security-ms

dmoore44

I looked at the JHU program, but there's a pre-req for 1 year of calculus taken recently... and It's been a while for me in that regard. I didn't want to have to go take a few calc classes before I started the program, so I scratched it off my list.

Anyway, there's a few ways of thinking about the type of knowledge and skills you'll walk away with - programs that teach management skills, technical/theoretical skills, and practical skills. So, recommendations could be tailored to what sort of instruction you're looking for. Also, we're in the same boat - I'm using my GI Bill benefits to pay for my MS - it's been pretty seamless so far.

If you're interested in a program that will help you on your way towards a management position, check out Northwestern's MS: Information Systems (there's an InfoSec concentration)

If you're seeking something technical, check out Syracuse's MS: Computer Engineering (there's a concentration in security), there's also a new MS: Cybersecurity.

If you want a blend of management and technical, check out the link to Carnegie Mellon's programs in my signature (there's an MSIT: InfoSec, as well as an MS: InfoSec Policy and Management program that might appeal to you).

If you're seeking a program that will give you practical skills, then Utica's MS: Cybersecurity always appealed to me.

There are several other well regarded schools that offer online programs for you to consider, like Purdue, Stanford, and several state schools like University of Maryland College Park, Virginia Tech, and more.

OctalDump

dmoore44 wrote: »

I looked at the JHU program, but there's a pre-req for 1 year of calculus taken recently... and It's been a while for me in that regard. I didn't want to have to go take a few calc classes before I started the program, so I scratched it off my list.

I'm wondering what the calculus is needed for. My guess is that they might dive deep (or even not so deep) into encryption and hashing algorithms. Is there somewhere else that 'serious' mathematics might be needed in a program like this?

the_Grinch

Have you looked at DSU? Two programs I think would fit your budget and what you are looking to do. Also it has the NSA Center of Academic Excellence designation along with being one of the few schools that is also a CAE in Cyber Operations.

Master of Science in Information Assurance and Computer Security | Dakota State University

Master of Science in Applied Computer Science | Dakota State University

My boss is currently in their DSc for Cyber Security and the stories of the work he has to do are pretty amazing (difficult, but interesting). I was accepted to their Masters in Applied Computer Science program and only needed some programming pre-reqs. The price can't be beat that's for sure!

Irregardless of your school if you have post-911 GI Bill make sure you look into the Yellow Ribbon Program. Most institutions have it and it basically takes whatever you have in your GI Bill and then covers everything else thus you pay nothing (I'd assume books are on your dime, but don't know for sure).

dmoore44

OctalDump wrote: »

I'm wondering what the calculus is needed for. My guess is that they might dive deep (or even not so deep) into encryption and hashing algorithms. Is there somewhere else that 'serious' mathematics might be needed in a program like this?

If I remember correctly, they do get in to the math in the crypto course(s), but I think there's also some analytics courses that are math heavy.

FSF150

the_Grinch wrote: »

Irregardless of your school if you have post-911 GI Bill make sure you look into the Yellow Ribbon Program. Most institutions have it and it basically takes whatever you have in your GI Bill and then covers everything else thus you pay nothing (I'd assume books are on your dime, but don't know for sure).

Some schools include books with the tuition. Norwich did that - very convenient for me!

<- GI Bill/Yellow Ribbon guy.

the_Grinch

FSF150 wrote: »

Some schools include books with the tuition. Norwich did that - very convenient for me!

<- GI Bill/Yellow Ribbon guy.

Excellent! Good info for the vets we have here on the forums!

kiki162

For JHU, und.edu has a ton of online classes that will take care of your math req.


Pre-req's for the JHU MS in Cybersecurity program

(1) one year of calculus;
(2) one mathematics course beyond calculus (e.g., discrete mathematics, linear algebra, or differential equations);
(3) a programming course using Java or C++;
(4) a course in data structures; and
(5) a course in computer organization.

If you change your major to ISE, then there are less pre-req's.

globalenjoi

Soooo much good feedback here, guys, I really appreciate it.

I'm expecting to have to take pre-reqs at nearly any school I choose, because I've never taken a programming course, and my highest math is college algebra. I've started a free Java course through University of Helsinki, which is odd but kind of neat, as well as some other stuff. I considered just doing a second undergrad program to get something out of the pre-reqs, but the general consensus seems to be that since I'm already working in IT, it'd be a waste of time.

Am I doing it wrong by trying to acquire/develop some technical skills in a graduate program? I'm new to the IT field and trying to push in to security, so technical skills seem very valuable.

nikgenius

Has anyone explored Champlain College's Online Master of Science in Information Security Operations (MSISO)? Debating between Norwich University's MSISA (Master of Science in Information Security and Assurance) and Champlain College's MSISO. Which would would you pick and why?

nikgenius

Debating between Norwich University's MSISA (Master of Science in Information Security and Assurance) and Champlain College's MSISO. Which would would you pick and why?

globalenjoi

Hey guys, been a bit since I posted! I submitted an application to Penn State last month, but I found out today that I didn't make the cut. No reason was given other than it being competitive, so I don't know what exactly prevented me from being admitted, but I guess it could be anything since I don't have much experience, a non-technical undergraduate degree, and no GRE scores. So I'm thinking, now what? I don't think I have enough time to aim for a fall start with any school, but I don't want to waste the fall semester. I think I could apply for the SANS Technology Institute, since they have rolling starts and my GI Bill could be used, but I don't know much about the long-term benefit of their degree program since it's very new.

Anyone have any opinions or recommendations for alternate schools, or possible plans for a fall without starting a graduate program?

danny069

You still have time to enroll in fall if the master's program you choose accepts rolling admissions. SANS is very expensive, not worth the tuition in my opinion, and also depending how much your GI bill will cover. If you decide to take the semester off you can study for some security certifications until the Spring semester starts.

globalenjoi

I was planning to work on the CEH exam, though lately I've spent more time using SamuraiWTF and Mutillidae in my virtual lab since that is what my company uses. I'm a bit torn as they really don't seem to care much about the CEH exam and care more about the GSEC and other SANS stuff. I'll have to search around a bit to see how much of the SANS program would be covered by the GI bill, since it's a private program. I can use the GI bill to reimburse for certification exams, but it's really a waste because one test is equal to one month of benefit, while also missing out on the $750 per month housing stipend.

FSF150

globalenjoi wrote: »

I was planning to work on the CEH exam, though lately I've spent more time using SamuraiWTF and Mutillidae in my virtual lab since that is what my company uses. I'm a bit torn as they really don't seem to care much about the CEH exam and care more about the GSEC and other SANS stuff. I'll have to search around a bit to see how much of the SANS program would be covered by the GI bill, since it's a private program. I can use the GI bill to reimburse for certification exams, but it's really a waste because one test is equal to one month of benefit, while also missing out on the $750 per month housing stipend.

With all of the other options out there which allow you to stretch your GI Bill much farther, I wouldn't be keen on blowing my Post-9/11 benefits on SANS, unless you have no plans for further formal education (even then).

Your company won't sponsor it?

globalenjoi

FSF150 wrote: »

With all of the other options out there which allow you to stretch your GI Bill much farther, I wouldn't bee keen on blowing my Post-9/11 benefits on SANS, unless you have no plans for further formal education (even then).

Your company won't sponsor it?

They definitely won't cover the entire graduate program for sure. They send our information security people to the SANS courses, but I'm not part of that team. I would like to get on the team, so I'm trying to make myself more appealing and more qualified when internal positions open. I think getting started on a SANS degree would definitely give me a boost, but I do have concerns about the degree, because it is definitely expensive and I don't know much about the success of graduates.

jeremywatts2005

Dude I know I sound like a broken record check out Champlain College Masters of Sci Digital Forensic Sci. With you foreign language experience you would make an awesome forensic investigator. Just saying the Masters is a very hands on technical program with great job prospects waiting on the other side. They also have a career services department and most of the instructors are from the government side working in digital forensics, incident response and information security.

globalenjoi

I checked out Champlain College, but it looks a little different what I'm looking for, since I'd like to steer towards more pentesting courses.

I applied to Utica College this week. I found out today that someone I work with is attending WGU and highly recommends it, though they are working on an MBA because they already have a solid technical background and industry certs like CISSP. I'm still digging because I can't tell if the MS in Cybersecurity and Information Assurance program at WGU is more technical or if its more policy and concept-driven. I started an application to Norwich as well, after reading more in another thread about the Vulnerability Management track.

Speaking with someone in our infosec team today, he encouraged me to consider the SANS program. I'm just really hesitant on that program because it's very hard to track down any real results from people that have completed the program. It really looks like most just start, attend some and gain some certifications, and then quit before finishing out the program within the 5 year period.

If anyone has any other feedback to add, I'm all ears. Penn State was the one I wanted, but I don't know if it's worth waiting around another year to try and re-apply when I might be able to complete a year somewhere else in that time. Utica College is my 2nd place pick because the Cyber Operations track seems pretty solid for technical learning.

globalenjoi

So today a coworker suggested something to me and I wanted to see what people here thought. She is currently attending WGU working on her MBA. She recommended that I apply to WGU for the MSCSIA program, and at the same time, work on a graduate certificate from the SANS Technology Institute. Since the tuition for WGU is so low, using the GI Bill would allow me to make progress on a graduate program while also completing at least 2 SANS courses per year. Does this sound like it would be too much of a load? I've never taken any SANS courses, and the people I know that have taken them have all done the on-location training instead of the on demand training, so I don't have much feedback on what they are like. Would it be possible to work on these two things simultaneously?

dmoore44

The GI Bill won't cover the cost for SANS training courses, just the reimbursement for the exam fee; the only way to get a SANS cert AND have the GI Bill pay for it is to go through their masters program.

globalenjoi

dmoore44 wrote: »

The GI Bill won't cover the cost for SANS training courses, just the reimbursement for the exam fee; the only way to get a SANS cert AND have the GI Bill pay for it is to go through their masters program.

I knew about the actual certification exam and pursuing the courses individually, but would this be the same if I applied for a graduate certificate program where the courses can be applied to the actual graduate degree? I can't seem to find a clear answer because most searches just seem to result in articles about certification tests, not actual graduate certificate programs. SANS Institute and SANS Technology Institute are both listed in the VA database of approved programs, and even within the certificate programs the individual courses have credit hours assigned. Wording in the SANS documentation regarding veteran benefits seems to indicate that the benefits can be applied to their certificate programs.

I'll have to do more digging after work. I may be grasping at straws, but if it's possible, I think completing a SANS graduate certificate program at this point would be pretty valuable since I'm looking for more technical programs.

OctalDump

globalenjoi wrote: »

I knew about the actual certification exam and pursuing the courses individually, but would this be the same if I applied for a graduate certificate program where the courses can be applied to the actual graduate degree? I can't seem to find a clear answer because most searches just seem to result in articles about certification tests, not actual graduate certificate programs. SANS Institute and SANS Technology Institute are both listed in the VA database of approved programs, and even within the certificate programs the individual courses have credit hours assigned. Wording in the SANS documentation regarding veteran benefits seems to indicate that the benefits can be applied to their certificate programs.

I'll have to do more digging after work. I may be grasping at straws, but if it's possible, I think completing a SANS graduate certificate program at this point would be pretty valuable since I'm looking for more technical programs.

I think that there is a difference between SANS Technology Institute that does the Master's and Graduate Certificates etc and the SANS Institute that runs the courses that lead to GIAC certifications. I'm not sure why SANS likes these convoluted structures. My gut says that the SANS Technology Institute will be covered under the GI Bill, but the SANS Institute short courses won't be. I think that it is worth following up. sans.edu is SANS Technology institute, sans.org is SANS Institute.

Masters Degree in Information Security - SANS Technology Institute is probably a good place to start. There's an email address on that page.

globalenjoi

OctalDump wrote: »

I think that there is a difference between SANS Technology Institute that does the Master's and Graduate Certificates etc and the SANS Institute that runs the courses that lead to GIAC certifications. I'm not sure why SANS likes these convoluted structures. My gut says that the SANS Technology Institute will be covered under the GI Bill, but the SANS Institute short courses won't be. I think that it is worth following up. sans.edu is SANS Technology institute, sans.org is SANS Institute.

Masters Degree in Information Security - SANS Technology Institute is probably a good place to start. There's an email address on that page.

Yeah, I sent an email to the SANS email dedicated to VA benefits last night to get some clarification. I'm really hoping for good news, because I think using the benefit to cover 4 SANS courses would be pretty helpful, since those courses cost buckets and buckets of money. I think it'd be good technical training for me as well.

globalenjoi

Got a reply from SANS Technology Institute that I think is worth sharing, so I'll be posting it on the SANS board here too.

"Thank you for your email. All of STI’s graduate certificate programs are eligible for GI Bill benefits. Which program are you interested in?

The major difference with how benefits are administered at STI is that we do not operate a traditional academic calendar. We operate course terms. Each course in your certificate program will last between 150-90 days (depending on the program and course). The rate of pursuit is also calculated per course. For example, if you enroll in a 3 credit hour course lasting 90 days, you would be considered full time. Our formula for a full time rate of pursuit is based off 1 credit hour per month of enrollment.


I look forward to working with you to start the enrollment process.


Regards,
Matthew


Matthew H. Scott, M.A.
School Certifying Official, VA Education Benefits
SANS Technology Institute (STI) (www.sans.edu/veterans)
[URL="tel:%28303%29%20953-9471"](303) 953-9471[/URL]"


So I think this is what I will do for now, use part of my GI bill on a certificate get a few SANS courses and certifications along the way. I think it'll help quite a bit since I'm looking for more technical training, and I can cover the cost of WGU on my own if I decide to go that route this year.

OctalDump

globalenjoi wrote: »

Got a reply from SANS Technology Institute that I think is worth sharing, so I'll be posting it on the SANS board here too.

So I think this is what I will do for now, use part of my GI bill on a certificate get a few SANS courses and certifications along the way. I think it'll help quite a bit since I'm looking for more technical training, and I can cover the cost of WGU on my own if I decide to go that route this year.

That's pretty awesome news. The only downside on those GIAC certifications is the price, so finding away around that is very nice. Good luck!