Recruiter told me I don't qualify because of my current pay grade

TheFORCE

So i received a LinkedIN message yesterday about a Manager role for an unknown company. This position happens to be my dream job presently and the next step in my career. So after reading the job description, i followed up and contacted the recruiter.
Recruiter called a few minutes later and told me the job requirements in terms of responsibilities which i met with flying colors and even he mentioned that my qualifications are impressive.

Then he asked me about my current salary, I wish I hadn't because as soon as I mentioned my salary he said "Well this position pays around 120K-125k and you are not close to the pay grade, if you were close to the 95k-100k it would be different. This company is looking for someone with prior senior titles" At this point I got a little upset and basically told him, that because I do not make something close to the 120k that should not disqualify me from being considered. He then told me that I'm 2 pay grades below being considered for a manager position and that I should get a "senior" job first that is closer to the 100k mark and then move to the manager position. I then tried to defend myself a bit and told them that just because my title currently doesn't say senior doesn't mean i do not have seniority in the industry.

After that he started with the managerial questions asking if i have ever managed people and i told them that I have not but I have been the lead in all my positions and even though people dont directly report to me, i direct and delegate their daily tasks and projects. He then told me that they are looking for someone who has been a manager for a small team of 2-4 people and now is ready to manage 5-8 people and again told me that I'm not ready yet.

So i tried to look confident and told the recruiter, "why dont you submit my resume and see if the hiring manager even though i do not have previous managerial experience maybe they will like my experience so much that they will at at least give me a chance to a phone call", He then said that it is his job to review resumes and only send those that qualify the most. This position would be a 40k jump from my current role, just to put in perspective the 2 pay grade range.

Anyway, from now on I'm not providing my salary anymore lesson learned.

scaredoftests

That is so dumb.

OctalDump

This is strange. What has salary got to do with your ability to perform the job?

I get that the management experience could be important, although in practice it probably isn't that big a deal. But to make it about pay grades is silly.

powerfool

It's just a way for employers to not have to think or put forth effort. The premise is that since you are not at a higher pay grade already, you do not have the requisite experience and skill to move up some incremental amount. This is why I don't provide my current salary. If they say that they can't go forward without that info, I walk. That isn't the kind of place that I would like to work.

thomas_

Almost sounds like you should have said "Ok, bye" and hung up the phone after he said you don't qualify. It doesn't appear that trying to convince him did any good. If you cut the conversation short it might have caught the recruiter off guard and maybe fonsider you more since you didn't need him enough to try to give a justification of why you qualify for the position. Or that might not have helped either.

It sounds like the recruiter is just looking for the slam dunk, no brainer candidate choice to maximize his chance of getting a commission. All of the other reasons he gave are just nonsense considering your very valid rebuttals to his objections.

Sometimes I wonder if there is such a thing as "salary envy" where recruiters and HR types don't want to give some one a pay raise because they're upset to see someone get that big of a pay bump when they know they have no hopes of receiving a big jump like that themselves, especially if the candidate is making right around the same amount of money as themselves. I think if the candidate is already making more money than the recruiter/HR it's not as big of a deal because at that point you're already more "valuable" than them as indicated by your higher pay.

Finally, I need to really build up my savings, so if I ever get on a call with arecruiter like that I can tell him off. While reading your post several phrases popped to mind. I wonder how many people that recruiter has managed in his life time?

Kreken

The recruiters judge your potential value based on your current compensation. You don't have to agree with it but that's the way it is. My advice is to give them your total compensation value (base + bonus + benefits) instead of just base salary. Wait till you get into 150K+ range and they will start to ask you for a copy of W2 (1099) to verify your rate...

Edit: After I posted, I saw a lot more replies and it looks like you guys seem to confuse the HR department with a recruiter. With a recruiter, money talk is the beginning and with HR - right before or when the offer is made.

thomas_

Edit: After I posted, I saw a lot more replies and it looks like you guys seem to confuse the HR department with a recruiter. With a recruiter, money talk is the beginning and with HR - right before or when the offer is made.

Since I'm the "guys" you are referring to, I was actually making a blanket statement covering recruiters and HR both. I've read in other threads with HR giving pushback about a candidate getting paid too much over what they were previously paid. I am very aware of the differences between an HR department, internal recruiters, and external recruiters.

JockVSJock

Do you know the name of the company? Can you apply directly?

Mitechniq

If they ask me my current salary, I tell them my salary expectation. I haven't had one recruiter ask me again the same question.

Sheiko37

It sounds like the managerial questions would've come up in the interviews and you may not have gotten the position anyway.

told me the job requirements in terms of responsibilities which i met with flying colors

started with the managerial questions asking if i have ever managed people and i told them that I have not

These two sentences are at odds.

TheFORCE

Sheiko37 wrote: »

It sounds like the managerial questions would've come up in the interviews and you may not have gotten the position anyway.


These two sentences are at odds.

There isnt only one responsibly in the job description. There were others too that a manager has to be involved on a daily basis which is something that i currently do. I was referring to the experience required by the job, technically speaking yes I have never managed people as far as HR is concernes but I do have people that look up to me for directions and to delegate tasks and projects, I think that should account for something when aiming for your first managerial role, no? Otherwise how am I going to get mangerial experience if my experience is not considered instead my current salary is.
Funny thing is most jobs now mention compensation based on experience not based on current salary. This is really interesting topic though as the feedback and questions will make us all better negotiators.

PCExpert

Hi TheFORCE,

I'm sure you're aware of what I'm about to say, (and this could be made into a separate thread, indeed there is a thread on another forum just dedicated to this subject), but rule number one:

NEVER, EVER, EVER believe/trust ANYTHING a recruitment agent tells you (unless you happen to know it's true, of course) !!!!

You don't mention whether this agency was a specialist or generalist, but in the main, recruitment agents are dodgy as h*ll, and only care about one thing - their commission.

I don't want to labour the point, but as soon as you started effectively arguing with him, if it had been me, I would have put the phone down.
Your CV (if you'd got it right), should have really told the agent everything they needed to know. (however I accept that there is a certain level of flexibility required there).

Always ask who the client is - if they won't tell, put the phone down. (it could be a non-existent job)

Oh, and NEVER put references on a CV.

Just my tuppence!

networker050184

You should be thanking the guy for helping you avoid working for a company that doesn't value talent. Dodged a bullet!

tmtex

Yes I have the same problem but back words. I was laid off from a position as a Service Desk Manager( Company was acquired and all IT moved to CA) anyway I was making 107. Service Desk, Helpdesk, Desktop managers roles are very rare to come around so I am looking for just a IT admin/Dekstop support. Once they ask what my salary was, they basically hang up.


Recruiters are like car salesman, never trust them. I NEVER has one do anything for me.

powerfool

Mitechniq wrote: »

If they ask me my current salary, I tell them my salary expectation. I haven't had one recruiter ask me again the same question.

I have had them request my W2, as Kreken stated. I told them not to worry about. It just peeved me off. And I wasn't exaggerating my current salary in the slightest... my W2 would have been sufficient for them to pay me what I requested (as they already agreed, they just wanted to see it to verify).

The funny thing is, that company (a small consulting company) has had some issues. The owner is trying to distance himself from the company and is now an IT director for one of my clients at my current gig. I think what is happening is he is still running the company and they are not doing as well as he would like, so he has a flexible day job plus this. What is really sketchy is that I think some of his "engineers" also work for the new company. So, he is basically subsidizing his company with another company's money without their knowledge. So yeah, I see why they were not very trusting... they aren't very trustworthy folks themselves.

YesOffense

This is why I try to no longer disclose current salary. Was up for a gig i was uber qualified for, with a current connection as a reference that let me know the range and I asked for something within that. Was told by the recruiter that they don't make that high of a jump after letting them know my salary at the time. Which makes no sense, as that's what the current staff makes.

YesOffense

TheFORCE wrote: »

So i received a LinkedIN message yesterday about a Manager role for an unknown company. This position happens to be my dream job presently and the next step in my career. So after reading the job description, i followed up and contacted the recruiter.
Recruiter called a few minutes later and told me the job requirements in terms of responsibilities which i met with flying colors and even he mentioned that my qualifications are impressive.

Then he asked me about my current salary, I wish I hadn't because as soon as I mentioned my salary he said "Well this position pays around 120K-125k and you are not close to the pay grade, if you were close to the 95k-100k it would be different. This company is looking for someone with prior senior titles" At this point I got a little upset and basically told him, that because I do not make something close to the 120k that should not disqualify me from being considered. He then told me that I'm 2 pay grades below being considered for a manager position and that I should get a "senior" job first that is closer to the 100k mark and then move to the manager position. I then tried to defend myself a bit and told them that just because my title currently doesn't say senior doesn't mean i do not have seniority in the industry.

After that he started with the managerial questions asking if i have ever managed people and i told them that I have not but I have been the lead in all my positions and even though people dont directly report to me, i direct and delegate their daily tasks and projects. He then told me that they are looking for someone who has been a manager for a small team of 2-4 people and now is ready to manage 5-8 people and again told me that I'm not ready yet.

So i tried to look confident and told the recruiter, "why dont you submit my resume and see if the hiring manager even though i do not have previous managerial experience maybe they will like my experience so much that they will at at least give me a chance to a phone call", He then said that it is his job to review resumes and only send those that qualify the most. This position would be a 40k jump from my current role, just to put in perspective the 2 pay grade range.

Anyway, from now on I'm not providing my salary anymore lesson learned.

For future reference, a Lead is managerial, you have that experience. Having done a few manager interviews vs technical, you have to tune in to being a manager. Some where the tech was def above my head, it didn't matter to the interviewer. It was pretty much "yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll train you, but how do you handle a teammate not pulling his weight?"

markulous

Just embellish about what you make to them to avoid this kind of garbage. Factor in every single piece of compensation (salary, benefits, perks, etc) and slightly increase it if you have to. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you make now, but they'll put emphasis on it and use it to determine too many things.

NOC-Ninja

I always ask "what is the salary range" before I provide my resume.
They come back and say X to X range and I tell them, I only entertain this X range.
Maybe that will work for you.

TacoRocket

Something I have started doing with recruiters is telling them that what I make is under NDA. Makes them come up with the number first.

networker050184

markulous wrote: »

Just embellish about what you make to them to avoid this kind of garbage. Factor in every single piece of compensation (salary, benefits, perks, etc) and slightly increase it if you have to. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you make now, but they'll put emphasis on it and use it to determine too many things.

Why would you even want to work for a place you have to lie to get hired at though? What happens when raise time comes around? Wouldn't you rather just work for a place that values your skill set and what you bring to the table?

markulous

networker050184 wrote: »

Why would you even want to work for a place you have to lie to get hired at though? What happens when raise time comes around? Wouldn't you rather just work for a place that values your skill set and what you bring to the table?

If it's a company recruiter then yes, but I thought we were talking about 3rd party recruiters. They really don't represent the company in any way, they are just a necessary evil.

fredrikjj

It's because what you currently do and make is the strongest available signal to a recruiter. If one company is paying you X to do Y, that makes it more likely that another company will also be willing to pay you X to do Y. So if the recruiter has say 5 candidates, it makes sense to go forward with the ones that are closest in pay and responsibility to the role they are trying to fill. It doesn't make sense if your goal is to find the best candidate, because that would require you to actually spend time interviewing them and so on to evaluate their abilities, but a recruiter usually doesn't have the skills necessary to do that interview anyway. But that doesn't matter because their goal is usually to fill the role with someone that's acceptable and low risk.

Low risk is important because each employee usually has very limited upside, but more or less unlimited downside risk. This makes it so that someone that has already done the exact role that's being recruited for probably is overvalued because that person is perceived as being less likely of messing up.

The obvious solution here would be to just not tell them your current salary, and make up some excuse, but then you will most likely just annoy this recruiter because you took away that signal or indicator that they are looking for. On the other hand, if you do give them the real number and it's too low, you'll be disqualified for that reason. So you can't really win unless you give a false number, which I would be tempted to do if the recruiter is such an amateur that they don't know what kind of salary you make in your current position. But maybe you can get sued for stuff like that in the US so you should perhaps not take that advice, I don't know.