Being Lowballed by A Recruiter?!

nascar_paulnascar_paul Posts: 287Member ■■■□□□□□□□
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Had a great interview yesterday with a great organization in Midtown Atlanta. Job would be Sr. Technician doing remote support in, and maintenance of a VDI. The problem is this: the recruiter that forwarded me the information on the position is quoting 25/hour for six months contract to perm and 50K afterwards.

However, after seeing the environment, interviewing with the VP of IT, the Director, Lead Network Engineer and Lead Tech and getting more information on the position, I think that I've been seriously low balled by the recruiter.

I'm currently waiting on the organization's response to the interview, but I think that I'm going to have to have a serious conversation about what I expect to be paid for the contract period.

What's the best way to broach this subject, and how hard should my line be on what I'm paid for the contract period if I'm offered the job?
2017 Goals: 70-411 [X], 74-409 [X], 70-533 [X], VCP5-DCV [], LX0-103 [], LX0-104 []
"I PLAN to fail!" - No One Ever
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Comments

  • JockVSJockJockVSJock Posts: 1,118Member
    You first mistake, going thru a recruiter. Apply direct if you can.

    Recruiters don't care about you or your career.

    Stop wasting your time.
    ***Freedom of Speech, Just Watch What You Say*** Example, Beware of CompTIA Certs (Deleted From Google Cached)

    "Its easier to deceive the masses then to convince the masses that they have been deceived."
    -unknown
  • cknapp78cknapp78 Posts: 213Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Not sure what the going rate is for Atlanta but the contract rate does seem a little low if they are going to flip you for 50K after 6 months.

    Usually when I work a contract role I shoot for 20% higher than the salaried rate because I have to pay for my own insurance. So if I was going after a job that the salaried role is for 120,000 per year, I usually ask for between 68-75 per hour. In your case I would expect at least 30 per hour if they are going to flip at 50K.

    If the contract is short term I can usually overlook a lower contract rate since I will be finished quickly but if it is in the range of 12 to 18 months, I will even ask for higher since I have to foot my own expenses even longer.

    Best of luck to you.
  • KrekenKreken Posts: 284Member
    With a recruiter, you have to negotiate the salary/rate prior to submitting you as a candidate to a company. Part of the reason you were selected for the interview could have been the rate you asked. You can go back and ask for more but I don't think it will accomplish much and could possibly cost you an offer.
  • cknapp78cknapp78 Posts: 213Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    @JockVSJock - For the most part I will agree. Been an independent consultant for over 18 years and have deal with recruiters far more than I ever wanted to. Usually have good luck with internal recruiters rather than 3rd party recruiters. Probably because they are usually working for a salary with a bonus structure as opposed to straight commission.
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    You wasted your time with this one. recruiters do not care and will lowball you every time. if you take the job, you have to deal with the lowball offer.
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
  • JockVSJockJockVSJock Posts: 1,118Member
    cknapp78 wrote: »
    Usually when I work a contract role I shoot for 20% higher than the salaried rate because I have to pay for my own insurance. So if I was going after a job that the salaried role is for 120,000 per year, I usually ask for between 68-75 per hour. In your case I would expect at least 30 per hour if they are going to flip at 50K.

    If the contract is short term I can usually overlook a lower contract rate since I will be finished quickly but if it is in the range of 12 to 18 months, I will even ask for higher since I have to foot my own expenses even longer.

    Best of luck to you.

    I like what you saying, and nobody has ever coached me on this.

    For an hourly rate, I like this from this thread:
    And when a recruiter asks me what my last salary was, I LIE. I always tell them $3 to $6 above what I really made.

    http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/119241-recruiters-waste-your-time-2.html

    So if you have to get into bed with Satan, this is how you negotiate your salary.


    We honestly need a thread/sticky on how to deal with recruiters, if you need to deal with them!!! Because this subject comes up over and over and over and over again!!!

    I'm tired of seeing my fellow techies screwed over by someone who doesn't care.
    ***Freedom of Speech, Just Watch What You Say*** Example, Beware of CompTIA Certs (Deleted From Google Cached)

    "Its easier to deceive the masses then to convince the masses that they have been deceived."
    -unknown
  • cknapp78cknapp78 Posts: 213Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    The one thing I won't do when dealing with recruiters, companies, etc... is lie. If a recruiter asks my what my last role paid, I tell him that it's confidential and then immediately tell him what I want for the role we are discussing. If he bites, great. If not, get off my phone.
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    cknapp78 wrote: »
    The one thing I won't do when dealing with recruiters, companies, etc... is lie. If a recruiter asks my what my last role paid, I tell him that it's confidential and then immediately tell him what I want for the role we are discussing. If he bites, great. If not, get off my phone.

    Good sound advice. I was always told to not even mention what I was prev paid in my last position. and if they press the issue either say "Im not at liberty to discuss that I would like to talk about it in the interview" or lie and say that I made more than I really did in my job.

    The reason why recruiters ask for salary range is to see how much they can lowball you. I have noticed however that reg employees will work with you VS recruiters will always lowball you.
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    JockVSJock wrote: »
    I like what you saying, and nobody has ever coached me on this.

    For an hourly rate, I like this from this thread:



    http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/119241-recruiters-waste-your-time-2.html

    So if you have to get into bed with Satan, this is how you negotiate your salary.


    We honestly need a thread/sticky on how to deal with recruiters, if you need to deal with them!!! Because this subject comes up over and over and over and over again!!!

    I'm tired of seeing my fellow techies screwed over by someone who doesn't care.

    I can help and start it if you wish sir. I can also share my experiences with recruiters when I get home from work that is.

    icon_study.gif
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
  • bgold87bgold87 Posts: 112Member
    $25 an hour is $48,000 a year, then you go to $50k afterward. Are you upset about the $2k in general that missing or the $50k?
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Posts: 438Member
    bgold87 wrote: »
    $25 an hour is $48,000 a year, then you go to $50k afterward. Are you upset about the $2k in general that missing or the $50k?

    Actually $25/hr is $52,000 a year.
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    TomkoTech wrote: »
    Actually $25/hr is $52,000 a year.

    right so to go from 52k a year down to 50k a year is a pay cut of 2k
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
  • JockVSJockJockVSJock Posts: 1,118Member
    cknapp78 wrote: »
    The one thing I won't do when dealing with recruiters, companies, etc... is lie. If a recruiter asks my what my last role paid, I tell him that it's confidential and then immediately tell him what I want for the role we are discussing. If he bites, great. If not, get off my phone.

    We do no agree on this, especially seeing how recruiter's behave unethically.

    Remember, there is no honor among thieves and goals at the end of the day is to get paid.
    ***Freedom of Speech, Just Watch What You Say*** Example, Beware of CompTIA Certs (Deleted From Google Cached)

    "Its easier to deceive the masses then to convince the masses that they have been deceived."
    -unknown
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Posts: 438Member
    TomkoTech wrote: »
    Actually $25/hr is $52,000 a year.

    Not necessarily. When you are contracted through a staffing agency/recruiting firm the company you are doing the work for doesn't provide you benefits. When you are brought on full time you get the vacation/pto days, medical/dental/vision insurance, potential bonuses, and whatever other incentives you work out when accepting the job. While yes the company will be paying YOU $2,000 less in salary they will be paying more overall for your employment.
  • nascar_paulnascar_paul Posts: 287Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    bgold87 wrote: »
    $25 an hour is $48,000 a year, then you go to $50k afterward. Are you upset about the $2k in general that missing or the $50k?

    I'm not upset about either. I think that the hourly rate that I was quoted by the recruiter is lower than the rate that the company is truly offering, and that the recruiter wants to pocket the difference.

    In this case the recruiter is a necessary evil. This organization staffs for IT positions through the Robert Half exclusively, so without the recruiter, I would have never heard of the opportunity.

    Bottom line for me is that I'm willing to accept the loss of potential income if necessary for the position, but I don't think that it should be necessary. Asking shouldn't make me a less viable candidate, if the organization thinks that I can be a good fit for the role. I would think that the recruiter would prefer less commission over losing a candidate. This is business. I won't be angry at another person for attempting to maximize their return, but I see it as being my job to do the same thing for myself.
    2017 Goals: 70-411 [X], 74-409 [X], 70-533 [X], VCP5-DCV [], LX0-103 [], LX0-104 []
    "I PLAN to fail!" - No One Ever
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    I'm not upset about either. I think that the hourly rate that I was quoted by the recruiter is lower than the rate that the company is truly offering, and that the recruiter wants to pocket the difference.

    In this case the recruiter is a necessary evil. This organization staffs for IT positions through the Robert Half exclusively, so without the recruiter, I would have never heard of the opportunity.

    Bottom line for me is that I'm willing to accept the loss of potential income if necessary for the position, but I don't think that it should be necessary. Asking shouldn't make me a less viable candidate, if the organization thinks that I can be a good fit for the role. I would think that the recruiter would prefer less commission over losing a candidate. This is business. I won't be angry at another person for attempting to maximize their return, but I see it as being my job to do the same thing for myself.

    Oh no.... Robert Half strikes again... if you choose to go that route I will have to bless you with holy water, and arm you with a IronMan suit, zelda shield, and a Fallout 4 vault tec bunker key...
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Posts: 438Member
    Well you do realize that the way recruiters get paid is by the hours you work yes? There are exceptions, but typically if you are working FOR the staffing agency in that they are the ones cutting your check the company you are doing the work for pays the staffing firm X amount of dollars and the staffing firm pays you your agreed upon amount which is typically less.

    If the fulltime non-contract salary after 6 months is going to be $50,000 I don't think there is anything nefarious at all going on with the staffing company. They are probably making $28-30 an hour that you work, and paying you your agreed upon $25.
  • nascar_paulnascar_paul Posts: 287Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I think that you're right with one exception: I believe that the rate being paid the staffing agency is actually closer to $30-35.

    I don't expect anyone to work for free on my behalf, and I don't begrudge the agency any of their earnings. I'm simply trying to gauge a fair amount that will work well for me moving forward.
    2017 Goals: 70-411 [X], 74-409 [X], 70-533 [X], VCP5-DCV [], LX0-103 [], LX0-104 []
    "I PLAN to fail!" - No One Ever
  • Eston21Eston21 Posts: 71Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    Do you people not know how business works ?? The staffing agency is trying to make money period. And since you are going through the agency it is probably too late to apply directly. When it comes to staffing agencies on this forum it is the same complaining all the time. Either go find your own job or quit whining about them working on your behalf.
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    Eston21 wrote: »
    Do you people not know how business works ?? The staffing agency is trying to make money period. And since you are going through the agency it is probably too late to apply directly. When it comes to staffing agencies on this forum it is the same complaining all the time. Either go find your own job or quit whining about them working on your behalf.

    The reason we whine is because Staffing Agencys RARELY work on your behalf... They usually just headhunt, and waste peoples time. Their main focus is trying to see how low they can pay you.... and get other businesses to allow them to recruit for them.
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
  • Eston21Eston21 Posts: 71Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    That is not their job. They are not their to work on your behalf. You act like they are your agent. If you feel they waste your time than don't use them.
  • nascar_paulnascar_paul Posts: 287Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I think that the tone of the discussion has gotten negative, but there is no reason for it to be.

    I'm personally just looking for a couple of tips to help craft the most beneficial deal for myself and my family. The basic numbers are good. The opportunity is amazing, and I'm grateful for the experience no matter what the final decision. I'm just being cautious to make sure that I have few or no regrets about my final decision.

    Any other ideas on confirming the amounts being discussed and firming the best rate available? I think that the information that I've gotten so far is super helpful!
    icon_thumright.gif
    2017 Goals: 70-411 [X], 74-409 [X], 70-533 [X], VCP5-DCV [], LX0-103 [], LX0-104 []
    "I PLAN to fail!" - No One Ever
  • broli720broli720 Posts: 394Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    I think you already know how to approach this. Just ask for more money and highlight the reasons some have given (paying for your own benefits). Let them counter after that.
  • NOC-NinjaNOC-Ninja Posts: 1,403Member
    I always tell them what I want first before we talk.
  • Legacy UserLegacy User Posts: 0Unregistered / Not Logged In ■□□□□□□□□□
    @ OP

    Well if you were comfortable with the rate during the original conversation why should your feelings change after? The way those conversations usually go on the first call is:

    Recruiter: How much are you making in your current role or How much are you looking for your next role

    You: Tell them how much you want

    Recruiter: They either say that works or is to high and try to weasel you down.

    You: Either respond agreeing or trying to negotiate

    Final result the call ends with a rate that you both are comfortable with. The way I see it if you were fine with it already it shouldn't make a difference afterwards. Its a rate that you agreed on. Also, you said you would love the experience so get the experience then look for another role paying what you think you deserve.
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    NOC-Ninja wrote: »
    I always tell them what I want first before we talk.

    *in spice girls voice*

    SOOOOoooOOOoooo tell me what you want, what you really really want

    icon_cool.gif
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
  • tpatt100tpatt100 Posts: 2,989Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    I've gotten hired direct work through recruiters but I won't work for a recruiting firm since they are taking a cut of what you would be paid if you were a direct hire.

    I remember years ago back when I lived in South Carolina so much factor work was through temp agencies.... I remember the temp recruiter who hired me telling me not to tell anybody at the factory what I was getting because it was usually more than the full timers. Yeah right.....
  • nascar_paulnascar_paul Posts: 287Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    dmarcisco wrote: »
    Final result the call ends with a rate that you both are comfortable with. The way I see it if you were fine with it already it shouldn't make a difference afterwards. Its a rate that you agreed on. Also, you said you would love the experience so get the experience then look for another role paying what you think you deserve.

    When I initially spoke with the recruiter, I haven't interviewed or searched the market for going on three years. The business is also located in mid town Atlanta and I live and work in the northern suburbs of the city, so I simply didn't have complete information on market rates. The rates that we agreed on initially seemed fine, but after having a chance to meat with the organization's IT management team they seemed (slightly) low.

    But the news is great so far. The interview was great and when following up with the recruiter, I expressed my concerns and we're working towards something that everyone thinks is fair. I appreciate all of the great advice that I've been given in this thread. This place has been a gold mine for my career!

    Thanks again guys!
    icon_thumright.gif
    2017 Goals: 70-411 [X], 74-409 [X], 70-533 [X], VCP5-DCV [], LX0-103 [], LX0-104 []
    "I PLAN to fail!" - No One Ever
  • cyberguyprcyberguypr Senior Member Posts: 6,751Mod Mod
    That is a very understanding company if they allowed you to "meat" with them. Around here that's more of a 4th meeting kind of thing icon_smile.gif
  • ThomasITguyThomasITguy Posts: 181Banned
    That is a good company.... ones that "meat" with employees lol
    It's not about if you win or loose..... its how you play the game.
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