References

What would you do if you were in this situation.....

I have worked at jobs where the Manager is no longer there, or has moved onto a different company, or the company is no longer in existence.... And the last retail position I had I know the manager would not give a good reference if he was to be called. So in that situation is it ok to use co workers as managerial references? Or better yet is it ever ok to use friends or family as managerial references?

For example. the retail job I had, I was hired by a District Manager, but I was working with a Team Lead. But I was hired to be the team lead, but had to work part time hrs. I did everything managerial but I was not considered the lead because I only worked part time... but on my resume I have myself listed as the Team Lead/Manager because I technically was a Manager. But the manager I reported to was my co worker who I know would not give a good reference.

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IronmanX

ITSpectre wrote: »

I have worked at jobs where the Manager is no longer there, or has moved onto a different company, or the company is no longer in existence....

Try and get ahold of those managers and see if you can use them for references. I don't think it mattes that they are no longer at the place you use to work at.

NetworkNewb

So you don't you have a previous job where a manager liked you... hmmm

Why wouldn't you still give them the name of the manager you previously worked with, even if they did move on to another job? They were your manager. And if they liked you, they would most likely be fine with giving you a reference. Usually not too difficult to find or figure out someone's email (or some way to contact a person) online even if you haven't kept in touch with them.

DPG

ITSpectre wrote: »

So in that situation is it ok to use co workers as managerial references? Or better yet is it ever ok to use friends or family as managerial references?

Don't lie.

ITSpectre

NetworkNewb wrote: »

So you don't you have a previous job where a manager liked you... hmmm

Why wouldn't you still give them the name of the manager you previously worked with, even if they did move on to another job? They were your manager. And if they liked you, they would most likely be fine with giving you a reference. Usually not too difficult to find or figure out someone's email (or some way to contact a person) online even if you haven't kept in touch with them.

The short story is the manager did not like me because I did all of the work and he got all the credit. We were supposed to run the store together, but it was me who really ran the store and did well at it... and he really didn't do anything. So he resented me for that.

ITSpectre

IronmanX wrote: »

Try and get ahold of those managers and see if you can use them for references. I don't think it mattes that they are no longer at the place you use to work at.

Ive reached out to my old co worker who was a Manager with me... and the Manager that was over both of us. and got no reply. I reached out to both of them on different occasions and I even went to the store I used to work at to ask my old co worker personally and got nothing.

Iristheangel

It's hard and I definitely feel you. As far as the manager, I wouldn't give his name. I believe they'll only verify you dates of employment and maybe ask if they would hire you again but that's it. If that company has an HR team or number to call for verification, I would refer the potential employer to that number just to verify basic information.

As far as other references, maybe find a good list of coworkers that you were close to and have them verify you as a reference as a non-managerial reference.

ITSpectre

Long story short this happened a few years ago....

When we both worked at the store I did all of the managerial work and he just sold things when he felt like it. He got all the credit for selling AND the managerial work that I did. So I talked to him about it at work... I gave it some time and then after talking with him did not work, I went to our manager and requested we all talk about it together. Ever since I went to our manager I found out both of them were talking behind my back about me doing all the work and how they both thought I was playing a "game". What I did was documented everything. When I came in and the store was a mess I documented it. When nothing was done when my co worker was working, I documented it. In short I resigned from that job to get a full time IT job...

ITSpectre

Iristheangel wrote: »

It's hard and I definitely feel you. As far as the manager, I wouldn't give his name. I believe they'll only verify you dates of employment and maybe ask if they would hire you again but that's it. If that company has an HR team or number to call for verification, I would refer the potential employer to that number just to verify basic information.

As far as other references, maybe find a good list of coworkers that you were close to and have them verify you as a reference as a non-managerial reference.

Right for my retail job I def have a reference for that...Im not using the managers name but im using a co worker that also worked with me.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it

networker050184

Is it for a "managerial reference" or just a professional reference? Mine are usually current or former coworkers. I've never had anyone ask specifically for a past manager.

ITSpectre

networker050184 wrote: »

Is it for a "managerial reference" or just a professional reference? Mine are usually current or former coworkers. I've never had anyone ask specifically for a past manager.

I have had jobs ask for both. 1 Manager reference for each job on my resume (I have 3 listed) and at least 2 current/past co workers that can validate my skills.

ITSpectre

networker050184 wrote: »

Is it for a "managerial reference" or just a professional reference? Mine are usually current or former coworkers. I've never had anyone ask specifically for a past manager.

The funk that im in is I have 3 jobs listed on my resume.... 1 retail, 1 tech support, 1 IT job. That way it shows that I went from retail into IT. So the Managers from my retail job none of them are there not even the District manager. none of my co workers work there either. So If I had to list a managerial reference I would have to give the number to HR...

The second job on my resume is the Tech Support job where I was the manager but had to work part time hrs... That is the job where the manager resented me and I tried to do the right thing and talk it out with him personally.... AND talk it out with the manager above us...

the third job is the IT job. that job I just started.

ITSpectre

Iris I blame you for that long post because now I feel guilty about my references.....
kidding about the blaming you part

Iristheangel

LoL. Maybe a good thing to consider is dropping the retail gig if it's just that bad and doesn't have anything to do with IT? I don't list my call center jobs from when I was younger.

Also if you're looking to get some extra experience to maybe fill the gaps, maybe consider some side stuff like Onforce.com, Workmarket.com, etc? Pimp yourself for services on Craigslist? Go to meetup.com and linkedin and start joining groups and engaging in conversations and meet people.

ITSpectre

Iristheangel wrote: »

LoL. Maybe a good thing to consider is dropping the retail gig if it's just that bad and doesn't have anything to do with IT? I don't list my call center jobs from when I was younger.

Also if you're looking to get some extra experience to maybe fill the gaps, maybe consider some side stuff like Onforce.com, Workmarket.com, etc? Pimp yourself for services on Craigslist? Go to meetup.com and linkedin and start joining groups and engaging in conversations and meet people.

I see what your saying. The issue is I worked there for a year and 3 months and the job was tech support. But the retail gig before that has nothing to do with IT but I was told to put it on there because it shows where I came into IT. Because I have had employers ask "well what did you do before IT"

Iristheangel

You have some IT experience now so it's not so necessary to put down your previous jobs. It probably mattered more before just to show you had some work experience. If anyone asks you in an interview what you did before IT, you could just simply say that you worked in retail and move on. I did similar when I first started out. I had a lot of random jobs for 8 years of my adult life before I started into IT and some of those I would not want anywhere near my resume now. The list includes:
- Telemarketing multiple times
- Phone banker
- Credit card customer service
- Signature gatherer for petitions
- Water sales
- Cashier at Rubios
- 3 months in a phone customer service for a company well-known for making pills that are supposed to make men... um... bigger (think lots of angry insecure men calling in because they want to cancel their subscription because that magic pill didn't work)
- Security guard

No way in hell any of that's ever going on my resume again

ITSpectre

Iristheangel wrote: »

You have some IT experience now so it's not so necessary to put down your previous jobs. It probably mattered more before just to show you had some work experience. If anyone asks you in an interview what you did before IT, you could just simply say that you worked in retail and move on. I did similar when I first started out. I had a lot of random jobs for 8 years of my adult life before I started into IT and some of those I would not want anywhere near my resume now. The list includes:
- Telemarketing multiple times
- Phone banker
- Credit card customer service
- Signature gatherer for petitions
- Water sales
- Cashier at Rubios
- 3 months in a phone customer service for a company well-known for making pills that are supposed to make men... um... bigger (think lots of angry insecure men calling in because they want to cancel their subscription because that magic pill didn't work)
- Security guard

No way in hell any of that's ever going on my resume again

Ok good. So that settles the retail job of my resume I will take that off....
Now is it ok to use a co worker, or friend as the reference for the Tech support job where I had the terrible manager?

Iristheangel

ITSpectre wrote: »

Ok good. So that settles the retail job of my resume I will take that off....
Now is it ok to use a co worker, or friend as the reference for the Tech support job where I had the terrible manager?

If you're very clear that the coworker is a professional co-worker and the friend is a personal reference. People do it all the time. They might not want their boss to know they're leaving yet or create issues at work. Just don't say "Bob is my boss" when, in fact, he is not.

ITSpectre

Iristheangel wrote: »

If you're very clear that the coworker is a professional co-worker and the friend is a personal reference. People do it all the time. They might not want their boss to know they're leaving yet or create issues at work. Just don't say "Bob is my boss" when, in fact, he is not.

Ok I got it.... I can use friends and co workers as professional references. But how can I get around the hurdle of managerial references? Because I don't want to use the managers from my last job (tech support) because both of them were terrible.

Iristheangel

ITSpectre wrote: »

Ok I got it.... I can use friends and co workers as professional references. But how can I get around the hurdle of managerial references? Because I don't want to use the managers from my last job (tech support) because both of them were terrible.

ITSpectre wrote: »

I have worked at jobs where the Manager is no longer there, or has moved onto a different company, or the company is no longer in existence.... And the last retail position I had I know the manager would not give a good reference if he was to be called.

Didn't you say the manager is no longer there and moved on? If that's the case, just give them HR's number and have them do the basic reference of your dates, rate of pay, etc. I don't think I've ever been forced to let any employer contact all my previous managers. Even most applications will have something like:
1) List your previous employers
2) Is it ok if we contact your current employer? Yes/No
3) Please list three professional references not related to you

Your friends would not be a professional reference unless you worked with them. They would be a character reference but a lot of companies are still ok with that. Especially if you're still new in your IT career and you're getting lower-tier jobs.

Don't overthink it. You're not applying for the FBI. Most employers aren't going to stress if they can't talk to every person you've ever worked with.

Russell77

This is why Linked In is so important. Contacts for Life.

ITSpectre

Iristheangel wrote: »

Didn't you say the manager is no longer there and moved on? If that's the case, just give them HR's number and have them do the basic reference of your dates, rate of pay, etc. I don't think I've ever been forced to let any employer contact all my previous managers. Even most applications will have something like:
1) List your previous employers
2) Is it ok if we contact your current employer? Yes/No
3) Please list three professional references not related to you

Your friends would not be a professional reference unless you worked with them. They would be a character reference but a lot of companies are still ok with that. Especially if you're still new in your IT career and you're getting lower-tier jobs.

Don't overthink it. You're not applying for the FBI. Most employers aren't going to stress if they can't talk to every person you've ever worked with.

LOL funny you should say that.... I actually almost got a Secret Clearance so thats why im overthinking it... I had to fill out the SF86 and go through the dreaded 2 hr long interview with the DoD person.... what stopped me was finances... so once I get them straight I can get my official clearance.... I have not been declined... I just have to go before the DoD judge and appeal the decision....:)

TechGuru80

Was the person managing you? Also make sure it's not deceiving especially if you have the same title. Do not start a trail of lies because that could be immediate grounds for termination.

thomas_

ITSpectre wrote: »

For example. the retail job I had, I was hired by a District Manager, but I was working with a Team Lead. But I was hired to be the team lead, but had to work part time hrs. I did everything managerial but I was not considered the lead because I only worked part time... but on my resume I have myself listed as the Team Lead/Manager because I technically was a Manager. But the manager I reported to was my co worker who I know would not give a good reference.

You contradict yourself in this paragraph. Based off of this paragraph alone I would say that you were not the supervisor/team lead and your "coworker" was actually your supervisor/team lead, but you failed to realize it. It makes no sense for a business to have an actual manager that is only part-time, unless you are considering being an "MOD" as being the manager. If anything you might have been an assistant team lead or something to that effect.

When we both worked at the store I did all of the managerial work and he just sold things when he felt like it. He got all the credit for selling AND the managerial work that I did. So I talked to him about it at work... I gave it some time and then after talking with him did not work, I went to our manager and requested we all talk about it together. Ever since I went to our manager I found out both of them were talking behind my back about me doing all the work and how they both thought I was playing a "game". What I did was documented everything. When I came in and the store was a mess I documented it. When nothing was done when my co worker was working, I documented it. In short I resigned from that job to get a full time IT job...

This post makes me think that the other guy was the supervisor/team lead. Just because you are doing the "managerial work" doesn't make you the supervisor/team lead. Lots of managers and bosses have their underlings do their work for them and take credit for it. The fact that you talked it out with the Manager above the both of you and that manager agreed with your "coworker" and thought you were playing a game makes me believe even further that you were not the supervisor/team lead.

In short, it just seems like you are trying to justify listing yourself on a resume as being a supervisor/team lead when you really shouldn't be. At most it seems to me that you were "equals", but I'm leaning more towards the other guy was the team lead and you were an assistant team lead of sorts.

ITSpectre

thomas_ wrote: »

You contradict yourself in this paragraph. Based off of this paragraph alone I would say that you were not the supervisor/team lead and your "coworker" was actually your supervisor/team lead, but you failed to realize it. It makes no sense for a business to have an actual manager that is only part-time, unless you are considering being an "MOD" as being the manager. If anything you might have been an assistant team lead or something to that effect.

This post makes me think that the other guy was the supervisor/team lead. Just because you are doing the "managerial work" doesn't make you the supervisor/team lead. Lots of managers and bosses have their underlings do their work for them and take credit for it. The fact that you talked it out with the Manager above the both of you and that manager agreed with your "coworker" and thought you were playing a game makes me believe even further that you were not the supervisor/team lead.

In short, it just seems like you are trying to justify listing yourself on a resume as being a supervisor/team lead when you really shouldn't be. At most it seems to me that you were "equals", but I'm leaning more towards the other guy was the team lead and you were an assistant team lead of sorts.

I understand where you are coming from but at the same time I was hired on as full time... and in the company that I was working for the only people that are full time are Team Leads. So essentially there were two full timers there me and the manager.... but I was the one working the part time hrs... when my time sheet even said "full time employee"

Sheiko37

I read through this thread but can't follow it at all.

You had a manager who wasn't really a manager who you went over and talked to your manager's manager, but he doesn't like you (or was that the first manager, who's not really a manager), and you were hired as a team lead but the position wasn't actually a team lead, but you did managerial duties so you call yourself both manager / team lead on your resume, part time.

...do you have anyone who managed you in any way, with which you have not burnt a bridge? If so, contact them, ask for a reference.