Degree, Certs, no experience. Not sure where to turn...

Remedymp

networker050184 wrote: »

According to who?

According to ISC and ISACA. If you put down credential that you do NOT have, what else do you call it?

doctorlexus

Remedymp wrote: »

It is unethical to list that certification (or any) on your resume if you do NOT have it. It does not matter If it is "in progress".

Whole lot of people better get to removing their in-progress degrees then.

networker050184

Remedymp wrote: »

According to ISC and ISACA. If you put down credential that you do NOT have, what else do you call it?

Putting in progress is certainly not the same as saying you have it. It's unethical to say you have a degree you don't have as well, but putting in progress there is perfectly fine as well.


Yeah, what doctorlexus said!

mdhisapro

Except to pursue a degree you are making a monetary commitment, and you can list related classes you have completed if you haven't quite met the requirements for the degree.

Where as most certifications don't require the commitment. By listing certifications you haven't acquired yet you are wasting everyones time and diluting the worth of it.

What do you consider in progress ... I could be performing self study for any certification under the sun and call it in progress. Save it for when you have it.

Yes we are all literate here, just apparently some of us don't use common sense. If you are pursuing a certification and care to explain it further during an interview because things are clicking by all means. But its just stupid, and bad practice to announce things you haven't finished on your resume.

mdhisapro

Talk is cheap. When you put crap like that on your resume you are basically telling the interviewer that you are trying to get past the HR nonsense filters in the application process. If you don't have something own it. Get the interview, and show what you do know. If you are too scared to take the exam, you don't deserve to be listing it.

Remedymp

networker050184 wrote: »

Putting in progress is certainly not the same as saying you have it. It's unethical to say you have a degree you don't have as well, but putting in progress there is perfectly fine as well.


Yeah, what doctorlexus said!

You're NOT enrolled in a Certification. You either have it or you don't. You're enrolled in a degree program that has classes that can be verified via the institution you're attending. The organization that you're joining explicitly states this in their charter.

Why anyone would want to debate the idea of committing fraud is beyond me.

doctorlexus

Remedymp wrote: »

Why anyone would want to debate the idea of committing fraud is beyond me.

As far as I can tell, only you and mdhisapro think putting "OSCP (in progress)" on a resume is fraud. I really don't want to debate with you because you're irrational and silly. And I cringe a little bit at the fact that I even responded to you again. But what can I say, I'm not perfect.

thomas_

You either have a degree or you don't. If you are putting down a degree as in progress then you are devaluing my degree.

It still amazes me that people want to apply different standards to in progress degrees than to in progress certs. If you want to say both of them are inappropriate to put on your resume, then I can support that. However, don't say one is appropriate and the other is not. Your argument doesn't hold water no matter what your reasoning other than the fact you probably have an in progress degree that you put down on your resume.

networker050184

Remedymp wrote: »

Why anyone would want to debate the idea of committing fraud is beyond me.

Yeah me too. Not sure what that has to do with this conversation though.

anhtran35

PMP( in Progress )
CISSP( in Progress )

Prepare to answer questions on what progress you are making like when are you scheduled to take the exam etc...

botnick

Keep in mind that OffSec's certs are a monetary commitment far before you test. You have to pay for the lab time, the exam materials and an exam attempt in advance, to the tune of $800 minimum. For the OSCP I have cracked at least 15 machines on their student network, gotten access to the bonus networks, and got fairly close to passing the exam on my first attempt.

Retries are only $60, it's their labs that are the most expensive part. It's very common for a student (even an experienced infosec practitioner) to have to purchase a few lab packages and exam attempts to crack this cert. More common than not from what I understand. There is definitely a huge element of 'progress' to the process. Now at the end of the day my rationale for listing it is to show where I'm taking my career as well as sparking some interest if an employer is in the know about OffSec training. If I listed it without (in progress) and was attempting to use the cert to leverage my way into actual pen test positions, that would be unethical. I'm applying to L1 support positions so it's not even close.

ISC2 is a little different, I've looked into their stuff and done a fair bit of research (no interest in testing yet due to their exp requirements). They are very strict about how you list their certs, for example if you pass the CISSP but do not get endorsed and list on your linkedin 'CISSP' as opposed to 'Associate of the ISC2, passed CISSP exam', that presents a huge problem. And plus if you haven't even passed an ISC2 exam all you can really say is that you read the material. They're actually quite unique in their requirements.

So at the end of the day it's really just a matter of personal preference. At least in this case.

RoyalRaven

anhtran35 wrote: »

Detroit? There lies the problem. 20 years ago I resided in Baltimore. I relocated to DC/VA area where there are an abundance of IT jobs. You probably need to relocate to a city that has similar opportunities.

That's not the problem. Familiar with the market. Plenty of jobs for IT.

OP needs to network with IT persons and get their name out. Have to go out and sell yourself and find others who can help. Someone will give you a chance, but you have to create opportunities by networking.

plopbangcrash

In regards to the CISSP putting anything on a resume or site other than "Associate of (ISC)²" without passing the exam AND completing the endorsement process if caught will get your cert revoked and get you banned from future certification through ISC2. Not all certs are as heavy handed ,but, honestly no one cares if you are in the process of completing a cert or not, you either have it or you don't. The only reason companies care whether you are in progress on a degree or a certification is if the company has a legal or business requirement for the certs such as government work or simply to meet HR requirements.

RoyalRaven

Also, my stance is to not list certs-in-progress, only earned. Those are earned at time of completion by the organization providing the tests. You do have to apply and get accepted for degree programs though, so I see that differently. You have an organization (the school) backing you as a valid candidate for completion.

I have certs I tell folks I'm working on but never write them down. Some never actually materialize, whereas the major commitment for a degree is a whole different subject. Just speaking from times I've reviewed resumes...we always care about what's been achieved, but always take anything in the pipeline/in-the-works with a grain of salt because its not proven yet. It's resume filler, just like if I said I'm going to write a book someday.

thomas_

Just because you enroll in college doesn't mean you are going to complete your degree:

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40

RoyalRaven

thomas_ wrote: »

Just because you enroll in college doesn't mean you are going to complete your degree:

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40

Those stats are a favorite of the "Intro" class teachers on the first day. "Guess what class....half of you sitting in this room won't end up graduating! Work hard and stay committed and you won't be one of them.."

networker050184

plopbangcrash wrote: »

Not all certs are as heavy handed ,but, honestly no one cares if you are in the process of completing a cert or not, you either have it or you don't.

Completely untrue. I care if someone is working towards a certification. I've been specifically told that I was contacted because I had an in process certification (CCNP) on my resume before.

jamesleecoleman

Hey from Grand Rapids!!

I suggest checking out BCBS, Consumers powers, FORD or GM (I think). There have been some Infosec jobs on the companies websites.

sandman748

There's nothing wrong with putting "In progress" next to a cert as long as its listed last and completely transparent.

You better be prepared to get grilled on it though. If I see in progress on a candidates resume I'll be spending a lot of time on that section during the interview to make sure it's actually in progress.

My favorite is the people who put CCIE written as a completed certificate. I put in extra effort to screen out those guys.