Partially sponsored training course...need your opinions.

huzzx

Hey,

TOday I went to an interview hoping for an intern or full sponsor at a company called IT solutions xchange http://www.tcscenter.com/. Instead I signed up for four programs covering certfitications in Network+, CCNA, MCSA/MCSE. Starting with Net+ this week, alongside with CCNA this Saturday, and MCSA in 4/29. The cost is $8,500 (testsing cost not included). But he offered me a company grant of $4,000 and WIA grant (gov't grant) of 2,500 reducing the price to $2,150 (150 is activation fee).

Now my question is, all I need is to become MCSE, but the director (guy who offered the plan) said getting Net+, and CCNA is the natural progression to MCSE, do you think I need Net+ and CCNA to become MCSE? Would it make getting MCSE easier?

I've already paid for it today, and sat in half a session of Net+. I didnt understand it because this was the 3rd class session (missed 2 classes; one week). They said I can retake the classes for any reason. What's your opinion on these training courses?

I felt studying at home with no hands on experience, no access to resouces and servers would be extremely hard and long for me to achieve. All I have is my A+ cert and personal experience on PC.
Thanks for your time to read this long message and any opinion you offer.

Plantwiz

Well, you've already paid, right? So, go through it I guess and see what you think.

I looked at something a few years back and realized very quickly I could buy an ton of books and hardware on my own and accomplish about the same thing.

It might suit your needs, I couldn't say.

Personally, I think those courses are too much money and falsely promise 'students' a dream of being a fully employeed MSCE at completion.

It takes more than a certificate to land a great paying job - but what do I know

porengo

I'm not as disciplined as some people on this forum, and for me learning in a structured (classroom) environment supports me in learning the material.

With that being said, I have an issue with accelerated classes, especially if you don't have any prior experience in the areas that are being taught. Personally, I would have used the government grant money and applied it some where else. However, you've already paid so take full advantage of what's being offered. Especially the option of taking a class as often as possible.

In terms of Network+ and CCNA supporting you in obtaining your MCSE, it probably isn't the most direct route, but it will support you in the long run. If they had offered A+, Network+ and Security+ it would have satisfied your electives for a MCSA (A+ & Net+) and MCSE (Security+). Plus it's more of a natural progression.

Good luck and keep us posted!

huzzx

I call the "director/recruiter" and he told me that learning about cisco routers is a must in the industry and he put his word on it. He claims that MCSE is the software side while CCNA deals with the hardware side (to my understanding).

Now I'm trying to get my refund on CCNA because that class starts this sat (9:30-5pm). and I'm starting Net+ on the following tuesday and thursday (10-2). I don't want to be taking 2 courses at the same time.

huzzx

Sigh...i approached it like a job interview. I was looking at their grant as "company sponsor" because I was qualify and he liked me. But I gave him all the power during the "interview." I was the client, but didn't realize it. I should of been the one in control. Hopefully I can get 1k back if I can cancel taking CCNA. The form I signed sez the signup fee of 150 is unrefundable. Anyone know any law here if I can do something about this? He convinced me to pay up because there was a class today and I could jump right in.

If anything I hope my experience teaches everyone something. I was just really hoping to get my foot in the door of an entry level IT job. I want to spend months at home with no job just straight up studying from my books and computer. It's unmotivatiing, boring, and I tend to procastinate a lot when I'm not pushed.

strauchr

This seems like a very low tactic by this company.

Presenting themselves as potential career opportunity too inexperienced people trying to get their foot in the door.

I'm not sure who would regulate such institutions in you area but I would complain while going to class and getting the certs - if they won't refund.

If you want to work with just MS products then CCNA is not necessary. I don't have it and I do quite well.

Sie

Not sure on the exact technicallities but it sounds like mis-selling, maybe a trainging osbudsman or Trading Standards?

Im not sure who exactly im sorry.!

eurotrash

i've been through a similar experience in London, where they had an ad for "positions" in whatever company, and offered supposedly subsidized training for those positions.
but ahhh, there was only room for a select few, and we would find out in a few days who had been accepted.

well i found out i was one of those "select few" who had passed, but by then i knew they were a training provider and full of bull, so i passed. and became wiser. then i found out that they say that to everyone, to make them feel that they can't pass up this "great opportunity".

oh, and there was something called a "course contribution" that was, oh, just 6000 pounds. not including the exams, of course.

strauchr

I think your better off working for free and getting some work experience really.

Scammers!

Plantwiz

huzzx wrote:

Sigh...i approached it like a job interview. I was looking at their grant as "company sponsor" because I was qualify and he liked me.

This is what they do. If you don't sign up (as I didn't merely inquired) they call and e-mail you daily.

But I gave him all the power during the "interview." I was the client, but didn't realize it. I should of been the one in control. Hopefully I can get 1k back if I can cancel taking CCNA.

Whenever you are paying money....you are the client

The form I signed sez the signup fee of 150 is unrefundable. Anyone know any law here if I can do something about this?

It's called a contract and if you sign it, YOU take responsibility for having read it, period. No one can 'make' anyone do anything, and while the place or person you spoke with might be 'slippery', you are liable when you sign a contract.

Can you get out of it? It will cost you more in attorney fees. Call it a lesson learned.

He convinced me to pay up because there was a class today and I could jump right in.

Measure twice cut once Or research first next time. Many people here can assist you with questions about 'stuff' in the industry. We'll help when we can.

If anything I hope my experience teaches everyone something. I was just really hoping to get my foot in the door of an entry level IT job. I want to spend months at home with no job just straight up studying from my books and computer. It's unmotivatiing, boring, and I tend to procastinate a lot when I'm not pushed.

You may wish to consider another field instead of IT. IT people, good IT people HAVE TO READ, RESEARCH and learn things on their own. Who will prepare you for the new software that is being release? You will need to know about it BEFORE the books hit the shelves in the stores.

Depending on your capacity at your employer, as an IT person you will likely be involved in budgeting, projecting, and recommending products, monies, labor etc.. to keep the company you work for profitable.

There won't be a class to take for everything that is new out there, you will need to motivate yourself to do it. If the industry isn't exciting for you at this stage....I'm not certain what will be interesting later on.
FWIW

huzzx

_omni_ wrote:

oh, and there was something called a "course contribution" that was, oh, just 6000 pounds. not including the exams, of course.

^Exactly! And what did you decide to do? At least you were lucky enough to be given time to decide. This guy was really good at selling.

plantwiz wrote:

You may wish to consider another field instead of IT. IT people, good IT people HAVE TO READ, RESEARCH and learn things on their own. Who will prepare you for the new software that is being release? You will need to know about it BEFORE the books hit the shelves in the stores.

I'm already learning and researching things but only at a personal level. I find out which drives are the fastest, which ram, which vid card etc...for my personal computer upgrade. But once I get a few years working in the IT industry, I can transfer that into the corperate level and research technology gear towards the professional world.
I don't think there's anything else for me at the moment. I've already been out of college for two years with no career job trying to find something in my field and failing. Computer is what I'm good with and I'm tech savvy. My cousin is in this industry and has a pretty high position. I just need to become MSCE and see where I can start.

I appreciate the posts, and gave me good input. Its a lesson learned indeed.

Plantwiz

huzzx wrote:

plantwiz wrote:

You may wish to consider another field instead of IT. IT people, good IT people HAVE TO READ, RESEARCH and learn things on their own. Who will prepare you for the new software that is being release? You will need to know about it BEFORE the books hit the shelves in the stores.

I'm already learning and researching things but only at a personal level....

There isn't a difference IMNSHO


BTW - a few days back you indicated you had a lot of 'experience' not in IT perse, but in Life. If you are really just out of college as stated above, I think you may want to consider a couple extra college courses, or go back and get a Computer Science background.

Certifications alone will not make a person competent in the field, and neither will having family members in the industry There are no shortcuts if you desire to be successful. Lucky, maybe different, but not successful. And have I known a few who got lucky didn't last real long.

What do I know ? :P

eurotrash

huzzx wrote:

^Exactly! And what did you decide to do? At least you were lucky enough to be given time to decide. This guy was really good at selling.

well at the time i was quite naive and didn't know all i know now about training providers. but i researched them on the net and found some complaints about them, so decided they weren't for me.

huzzx

I just got a call from the director (guy who signed me up), he assured me that this is a job training for their company. After I get my certs, he'll send me out to their clients (its a consultiing firm mainly). http://www.itsxchange.com/
He also mentioned that I could do internship towards the end of my Net+ course, when I mentioned about my financial situation. And he reiterated how important CCNA is in all companines.

Kevin.Smith

Hey man I got ripped off too. $24,500 for 6 months, 2 nights a week, 4 hours a night. Except everyhting was inculded. Once I got my MCSA I realized I paid way too much. You just have to make the best of it. Keep bugging the guy about the internship, theres nothing better than real work experience. Untill then your not allowed to complain if you're procrastinating. Set goals for yourself in terms of learning what you need for the test. Focus on Network+, the CCNA classes are just a bonus. You don't need to be CCNA certified.

drainey

1. Selling is what these people do. It's their job and you can't blame them for being good at it. (I fell for it also)

2. I took a 6 month accelerated MCSE course with no win2k experience (knew a fair bit about win95 but then was out of IT for awhile) and graduated with a 3.5 (3 days a week 4 hours a night). Mostly the instructor reviewed what we needed to know for each chapter in the book and it was up to us to learn it on our time. Some did well, others failed badly. It's all in how you approach it. My approach was I paid $8000 to learn this so I was damn well going to.

3. Net+ is good to have and while CCNA isn't required it certainly won't hurt, especially if you really apply yourself and learn.

4. Many have already said it but it bears repeating. Certs alone will not get you a job. Keep working on your pc and see if you can get others to pay you to fix theirs(I do little jobs for $30/Hr) so you can get more excperience to put on your resume. Don't be afraid to help a buddy, or family member, or someone you heard about set up a home network either. The more hands on you can get the better. Even if it's unpaid. Buy a couple of cheap pc's and network them. Get a trial version of Server (might come with one of your classes) and set up a server. Set up Active Directory. Set up DNS. Basically if you learn it in class or read it somewhere. Try to get some hands on with it to reinforce what you learned. (This aproach impressed my current boss enough for him to give me a shot)

5. I have had an IT job for three years now and have finished my A+, got my Net+ (both self-study) and am self-studing for the CWNA right now. Like others have said. IT is constantly changing and IT people have to change with or before it. If that's not for you then I'd recommend another career field. Not being an IT person doesn't mean you won't work with or need to be good with computers. My wife is a CPA but she's also one of the best end-users I've seen. Very knowledgable about the apps she uses, and not afraid to dig into one and see how it works and how to tweak it. Makes her very valuable to the accounting group within the hospital where she works.

6. GOOD LUCK!!

5.

huzzx

I attended my 1st CCNA class today, which was suppose to be from 9:30-5pm, which actually ran from 10-4pm with 45mins break. So thats about 5 hours of class for 4 weeks just to pass CCNA. I was talking to a couple of students during lunch today. It seems they're just getting the voucher not company grant as I have. I'll find out more next week to see if these people are actually paying the full $8,500 if without voucher.

Plantwiz

huzzx,

I hope you can find out PDQ what you have yourself locked into. Are you required to work for this place when everything is all done? And what sort of limitation have they placed on you if you are required to work for them and you quit?

I'm a little concerned your going to learn a hard life lesson with this experience.

All the best with it!

PW

huzzx

Hah no, im not *required to work for them. As he specified that its against the law.

What do you mean by PDQ?

Plantwiz

Maybe I'm dating myself, but PDQ = Pretty Darn Quick. I guess it isn't used as often as it once was.

smokey79

What ever happened with this ?
I received a call from this woman Deborah at the itsxchange place. She was an extremely fast talker, and told stupid jokes right from the beginning, so I knew she was into sales. They seem to be good at what they do which is selling/scamming people who are looking for jobs. She proceeded to rip apart every aspect of my resume over the phone, then told me she could make me an "engineer" like them. When I started to question the money involved and legitimacy, she said "oh forget it" and hung up the phone.

Just wondering how your experience with them turned out ?

huzzx

haha she's good but not that good. She didn't make it seem like its a job opportunity. She should of told you to come in for an interview, then rip apart your resume during the interview. Which would be MUCH more effective into convincing you how much you need this.

Right now I'm freaken sitting home into my 1.5month out of 2 month for my MCSA class to resume in july. I finished their CCNA and Network+ class. ANd BOTH SUX. They cover like just the general IDEA, basics, overview of what the exam covers. Its for those who have no knowledge of computer whatsoever. After taking their 4 week class for each course, I still needed month of my own self studying time to pass the Network+ exam. STill needed to read books, take practice exams. Because there were so many MANY small things topics/details that the courses does not cover. The courses is just a lil intro into what the exam is about. I got ripped off, them bastards.

I hoping MSCA classes are different. WIth more hands on. Its good for me because I don't have access to the programs, OS, and equipment on these exams.

smokey79

Sorry you were ripped off by these losers. It's a learning experience, and at least it seems to be keeping you on track for the exams.

ngmtechexams

I think the best thing to do is contact Microsoft and / or Cisco to see if the cetner is certified like they say they are. If not Microsoft and / or Cisco will go after them. If they are certified and you think they need to improve you should voice those concerns to Microsoft and / or Cisco as well, after all they're reponsible for verifying the quality and legitamacy of the program when they approve it.

You can also go to www.bbb.org and click on Business under File a Complaint, from there you can fill out a wizard form with any complaints you have about the program in which the Better Business Bureau will follow up.

mnky06

I'm glad I didn't do this...

The women Deborah called me a few weeks ago and told me she had some positions available and she would like to discuss my resume more and come in for an interview. I went and she was absolutely insane. She kept talking, then staring at me - dead silence for a few minutes at a time. Then she goes on about how I need to take these classes and blah blah. She kept saying how she was so smart and she knew all these people - I probably had more knowledge in my pinky than she did in her entire brain. I was so pissed that she wasted my time, I told her I would think about it and she told me she would email me. She never did, must have realized that I wasn't interested and I wasn't going to fall for her scam. I do want to get certifications but not A+...screw that. I just finished with my BSIT and am not about to sit through a class in stuff I knew in HS. I want to get Microsoft, Cisco and security certifcations. They are really the only ones that you need.

On a side note, if you ever met this women she is the ugliest thing you will ever see in your entire life, not like that has anything to do this, but it just annoyed me more that I had to stare at her while she was wasting my time.

Kaminsky

mnky06 wrote:

I'm glad I didn't do this...

On a side note, if you ever met this women she is the ugliest thing you will ever see in your entire life, not like that has anything to do this, but it just annoyed me more that I had to stare at her while she was wasting my time.

LOL

Wish this woman would phone me. I tell Barclaycard off when they phone me for a missed payment and have them backpeddling fast considering the monthly interest they makeout of me. Would love to have a conversation with this peasant.