Freecodecamp

Tech333

Is freecodecamp the right way to go in order to get a web development job?

I'll be doing a CS degree too.. Is it worth doing 2?

xXxKrisxXx

I think it depends on the organization. I work as a Web Developer on my day job and have a CS Degree. A lot of co-workers have degrees (not all of them are in IT). We hired on a guy who did a 3 month program with a code camp and he doesn't have a CS background. He's been able to hang in there just fine. The code camps pride themselves that their students are able to get in and get out landing a job making good money. The good thing about coder camps vs universities is you're learning up-to-date material and your put in somewhat real world scenarios. The homework I found in my undergraduate program was very weak and out of date.

You'll hear it a lot on here that companies want to see degrees on the resume. It shows some sort of commitment a companies won't hire you without it. I say if you take what you learn in the Web Development Camp and sign-up on Stackoverflow and help there, contribute to open source projects and write your own projects it will all come together for you.

P.s - Also wanted to add in that Code Camps teach on libraries like AngularJS, which is pretty popular. You're not going to find a college class that teaches you how to leverage this framework. Employers are going to like that you have exposure to these things instead of just taking a Javascript or a PHP class.

Tech333

xXxKrisxXx wrote: »

I think it depends on the organization. I work as a Web Developer on my day job and have a CS Degree. A lot of co-workers have degrees (not all of them are in IT). We hired on a guy who did a 3 month program with a code camp and he doesn't have a CS background. He's been able to hang in there just fine. The code camps pride themselves that their students are able to get in and get out landing a job making good money. The good thing about coder camps vs universities is you're learning up-to-date material and your put in somewhat real world scenarios. The homework I found in my undergraduate program was very weak and out of date.

You'll hear it a lot on here that companies want to see degrees on the resume. It shows some sort of commitment a companies won't hire you without it. I say if you take what you learn in the Web Development Camp and sign-up on Stackoverflow and help there, contribute to open source projects and write your own projects it will all come together for you.

P.s - Also wanted to add in that Code Camps teach on libraries like AngularJS, which is pretty popular. You're not going to find a college class that teaches you how to leverage this framework. Employers are going to like that you have exposure to these things instead of just taking a Javascript or a PHP class.

did you have any kind of experience before getting the job despite getting a degree?

if you dont mind me asking what company do you work in?
also by freecodecamp , i mean this : https://www.freecodecamp.com/challenges/commit-to-a-goal-and-a-nonprofit
it's a free online bootcamp which allows you to build up a github portfolio by guiding you through the stages, but the algorithm challenges make you think for yourself and then you volunteer by building websites for non-profits. node.js and expess.js , however angujar.js isn't, although this should be fine, because companies state knowledge of a few frameworks is desireable,please correct me if i'm wrong?
so knowledge, of javascript, jquery, html , css, node.js and angujar.js coupled with a portfolio on github to accompany this and evidence of volunteering to help a non-profit e.g.i can list it on my cv, then at an interview i could log into my account on the computer for the interviewer to evaluate my code maybe??

since it's a free online thing, i'm thinking i'll do a computer science degree just to keep my options open, in case some employers want proof of ability and stuff
would it be worth doing anything extra to make me stand out , or would it make me look like a pathetic saddo with no social life (like nerdy and geeky)? i plan to do sports aswell at uni........how important is it to be well-rounded for those kinda jobs, or the commitment, interest &ability(in terms of problem-solving) more important?

if i apply to a programing/ web development job, would you say it looks better if i have people jobs or if i have volunteering experience with javascript,node.js,express.js, html, css, etc. (full stack web development)

also are there positions of front end development (entry level)?

Tech333

also, just wanted to add would employers accept such certificates without a degree?

would you mind saying which bootcamp this employee attended? does the name of the bootcamp matter, just as much the name of the university would matter?

xXxKrisxXx

A lot of good questions. My co-worker attended this bootcamp: https://www.codercamps.com He said that he quit his day job before enrolling because it was a pretty hard core drill down 8-5 type learning. He did the .NET Full Stack Developer curriculum and he came out being exposed to what my company uses (Web API/MVC, AngularJS, SQL Server). I won't state the company name, but I work in the Education industry for the State of California. If you're in California shoot me a PM and I could get a bit more specific.

Before I started working with this company, I did have a little bit of a programming background. I didn't have a Stack Overflow or a Github to show my employer, but I was actively contracting on a website called oDesk (now known as upwork) and elance. I was able to provide them with my contractor profile which shows each contractors profile rated 1-5, shows the amount of jobs you completed, your portfolio, feed back and more. Having and building up your Github is always good. Working with non-profits and other companies doing their website is always good for you to have something to show. I also recommend you sign up for www.upwork.com and fill out a detailed profile, earn experience and make money programming. Connect with people that you meet off of Upwork via LinkedIn and have them paste your Upwork Feedback or draft a recommendation on LinkedIn and +1 your skills.

Regarding certifications and web development, I know there are some (Microsoft for the ASP.NET stuff). I've also seen a PHP Certification, and wouldn't doubt there's more for other languages. There isn't an abundant amount of certifications for development like there are for the Information Security Field. I think certifications help but the employer is going to take a look at what you've done. If it's a programming job you're applying for, definitely have a github account and urls to projects you've worked on. I've seen Application Security and Penetration Testing job listings where if you have a Github you're regularly contributing to, they're willing to view it (and consider it a plus).

If you're really into front-end web development, check out the MEAN stack. Although it's listed as more of a Full-Stack development model, you get your NodeJS. Front-end web development is honestly where it's at these days. You're right about companies listing that knowledge of frameworks is desirable, but at least pick up on an MVVM JS Framework. There's a lot out there like Knockout, Backbone, Angular, etc. Hands down the popular one (Google-backed) is AngularJS. My recommendation is learning TypeScript because Angular 2 will eventually be rolling out and Angular developers highly recommend using TypeScript. My boss was really skeptical about TypeScript taking off. We attended a Microsoft Conference where of course they were pushing it, but even more recently I had the opportunity to attend Angular Summit and it's clear that TypeScript is going to catch on big with Angular JS developers moving forward.

Regarding doing anything to make you stand out, you can show that you're going beyond volunteering your time for websites. You can show you're actually being paid to code (which counts as work experience) by working on a site like Upwork. Keep staying as active as you can. Being as well rounded as you can is fine, but for programming jobs - they wouldn't be shocked if you were a bit of an introvert and/or nerdy. The interests and ability definitely have to be there. With a job like development, you're essentially critically thinking all day. Your whole job is solving solutions to things. I've seen more right-brained creative folks have more of a niche for front-end web development more on the HTML5/CSS3 side and not being heavily interested in getting down with javascript. Their specialties are more creating themes, UX Design, etc.

Ultimately I say just dive in and play around with the languages. The Free Code Camp sounds cool, but I don't know how note worthy completing something like that is on a resume. At least with the Coders Camp I linked you to, it's worth noting that the class was taught by someone who put in time with Microsoft and you're literally doing it all day 5 days a week. I can't justify the tuition, but if you have it go for it. Feel free to ask other questions if anything, I'm here to help.

GirlyGirl

Kris,

I went to the website you listed. I only click on links someone post once a month, you seemed pretty legitimate. Trying to find a price on that site is like trying to find Waldo. I started to smile when the site started discussing financing and yes they will check your credit score. I have been to a bootcamp or training or two in my lifetime and spent thousands of out of the pocket money. You mentioned you can't justify the tuition, I personally can't find the tuition. I am semi-uninterested already when a training provider starts talking about checking credit scores and financing, and I have never heard of them before. I also have never heard of financed training, unless someone pays with a credit card. I guess the question is, how much is the training? I am pretty sure it's expensive since they're talking about "financing" but I am just curious. Maybe it's on the website and once I started reading about credit scores and financing I clicked that red X so fast I missed it. If it's on the site, please forgive me

Tech333

xXxKrisxXx wrote: »

A lot of good questions. My co-worker attended this bootcamp: https://www.codercamps.com He said that he quit his day job before enrolling because it was a pretty hard core drill down 8-5 type learning. He did the .NET Full Stack Developer curriculum and he came out being exposed to what my company uses (Web API/MVC, AngularJS, SQL Server). I won't state the company name, but I work in the Education industry for the State of California. If you're in California shoot me a PM and I could get a bit more specific.

Before I started working with this company, I did have a little bit of a programming background. I didn't have a Stack Overflow or a Github to show my employer, but I was actively contracting on a website called oDesk (now known as upwork) and elance. I was able to provide them with my contractor profile which shows each contractors profile rated 1-5, shows the amount of jobs you completed, your portfolio, feed back and more. Having and building up your Github is always good. Working with non-profits and other companies doing their website is always good for you to have something to show. I also recommend you sign up for www.upwork.com and fill out a detailed profile, earn experience and make money programming. Connect with people that you meet off of Upwork via LinkedIn and have them paste your Upwork Feedback or draft a recommendation on LinkedIn and +1 your skills.

Regarding certifications and web development, I know there are some (Microsoft for the ASP.NET stuff). I've also seen a PHP Certification, and wouldn't doubt there's more for other languages. There isn't an abundant amount of certifications for development like there are for the Information Security Field. I think certifications help but the employer is going to take a look at what you've done. If it's a programming job you're applying for, definitely have a github account and urls to projects you've worked on. I've seen Application Security and Penetration Testing job listings where if you have a Github you're regularly contributing to, they're willing to view it (and consider it a plus).

If you're really into front-end web development, check out the MEAN stack. Although it's listed as more of a Full-Stack development model, you get your NodeJS. Front-end web development is honestly where it's at these days. You're right about companies listing that knowledge of frameworks is desirable, but at least pick up on an MVVM JS Framework. There's a lot out there like Knockout, Backbone, Angular, etc. Hands down the popular one (Google-backed) is AngularJS. My recommendation is learning TypeScript because Angular 2 will eventually be rolling out and Angular developers highly recommend using TypeScript. My boss was really skeptical about TypeScript taking off. We attended a Microsoft Conference where of course they were pushing it, but even more recently I had the opportunity to attend Angular Summit and it's clear that TypeScript is going to catch on big with Angular JS developers moving forward.

Regarding doing anything to make you stand out, you can show that you're going beyond volunteering your time for websites. You can show you're actually being paid to code (which counts as work experience) by working on a site like Upwork. Keep staying as active as you can. Being as well rounded as you can is fine, but for programming jobs - they wouldn't be shocked if you were a bit of an introvert and/or nerdy. The interests and ability definitely have to be there. With a job like development, you're essentially critically thinking all day. Your whole job is solving solutions to things. I've seen more right-brained creative folks have more of a niche for front-end web development more on the HTML5/CSS3 side and not being heavily interested in getting down with javascript. Their specialties are more creating themes, UX Design, etc.

Ultimately I say just dive in and play around with the languages. The Free Code Camp sounds cool, but I don't know how note worthy completing something like that is on a resume. At least with the Coders Camp I linked you to, it's worth noting that the class was taught by someone who put in time with Microsoft and you're literally doing it all day 5 days a week. I can't justify the tuition, but if you have it go for it. Feel free to ask other questions if anything, I'm here to help.

Would volunteering count as work experience?

Either way, it would demonstrate your passion I suppose and look good..

I wouldn't do a computer science degree and a paid bootcamp though. It's a waste of time and money, and I'm partly going to unI for the social life.

Freecodecamp does list the MEAN stack as a certificate.
So if I know node and express would I be less employable than someone who knows angular?

xXxKrisxXx

Hey GirlyGirl,

Click on any course you're interested in and scroll down to the bottom to find tuition: https://www.codercamps.com/Camps/DotNet It's definitely pricey. You may of not heard of it, I certainly haven't but they're legitimate. I've heard of people taking their courses and heading straight over to Silicon Valley being able to land developer jobs. What you don't hear about is if they're able to maintain them.

Volunteering does count as experience, but I'm trying to get you paid by suggesting you sign up on a site such as Upwork. On the side you can always print out business cards. Use something like meetup.com to find groups in your area that maybe you'd be interested in hanging out with. See if they have a website and offer to code one for them. The choice between picking between a degree and a bootcamp is very tough, I don't want to sway you in 1 over the other. For myself, I just wish I would've gotten my Degree from a legitimate non-profit school. I went with one of those For Profit schools where you're way overcharged and you come out being exposed to a little bit of everything. If you have money just laying around and want to try to get in quickly, coder camps is worth a shot. Just be ready to hit it very hard. You're literally learning and working with this stuff at least 40 hours a week I heard. It's basically like having a full-time job doing it and you're not just working on solving small problems for a few months.

If you list node and express, I dont think it makes you less employable than someone who knows angular. It's just been my experience that developers will pick a stack. If you went with something like MEAN, it stands for Mongo-DB, Express, Angular, and Node. You'd literally be doing Angular for your front-end code. Pick a stack and stick with it. Be it LAM(Python/Django, PHP, <strikethrough>Perl</strikethrough>), MEAN, etc. Companies choose to use certain technologies over others for various reasons. When it comes down to it, there's more than enough jobs out there to where once you've completed the program (Degree or some Bootcamp) the jobs will be there.

Tech333

xXxKrisxXx wrote: »

Hey GirlyGirl,

Click on any course you're interested in and scroll down to the bottom to find tuition: https://www.codercamps.com/Camps/DotNet It's definitely pricey. You may of not heard of it, I certainly haven't but they're legitimate. I've heard of people taking their courses and heading straight over to Silicon Valley being able to land developer jobs. What you don't hear about is if they're able to maintain them.

Volunteering does count as experience, but I'm trying to get you paid by suggesting you sign up on a site such as Upwork. On the side you can always print out business cards. Use something like meetup.com to find groups in your area that maybe you'd be interested in hanging out with. See if they have a website and offer to code one for them. The choice between picking between a degree and a bootcamp is very tough, I don't want to sway you in 1 over the other. For myself, I just wish I would've gotten my Degree from a legitimate non-profit school. I went with one of those For Profit schools where you're way overcharged and you come out being exposed to a little bit of everything. If you have money just laying around and want to try to get in quickly, coder camps is worth a shot. Just be ready to hit it very hard. You're literally learning and working with this stuff at least 40 hours a week I heard. It's basically like having a full-time job doing it and you're not just working on solving small problems for a few months.

If you list node and express, I dont think it makes you less employable than someone who knows angular. It's just been my experience that developers will pick a stack. If you went with something like MEAN, it stands for Mongo-DB, Express, Angular, and Node. You'd literally be doing Angular for your front-end code. Pick a stack and stick with it. Be it LAM(Python/Django, PHP, <strikethrough>Perl</strikethrough>), MEAN, etc. Companies choose to use certain technologies over others for various reasons. When it comes down to it, there's more than enough jobs out there to where once you've completed the program (Degree or some Bootcamp) the jobs will be there.

Mongo DB, node, express, react and bootstrap are on freecodecamp

'if you have money just lying around'
I laughed at that. Bootcamp save money assuming the graduate salary would be similar to a university graduate.
Student loans are also available at bootcamps, just as it is at university.

The thing is most jobs seem to require experience- would projects dome at university that count as the degree qualification count as experience?

xXxKrisxXx

I should clarify here, I'm not advocating paying the tuition. We all know that employers screen for CS Degrees, but if you have experience and you can show it on your resume hopefully they'll look past the degree as a filter thing and bring you in for an interview. Feel free to use Free Code Camp, I'm not saying don't use it. I think if you use Free Code Camp and gain experience that you can show, it will look great.

The question about a degree versus experience is something people are always questioning. Why do they want to hire freshers out of school versus someone who's been doing it for several years and/or has an extensive background of proven experience? My response is more based around suggestions that exist out there that can get you to succeed. At the end of the day, a capstone project may not always count as experience, but it's something you'll see listed. Not all schools are going to properly prepare you for what to expect in the real world. Get in there, get your hands dirty and see if it's something you can pick up and see yourself doing for a career.

Tech333

xXxKrisxXx wrote: »

I should clarify here, I'm not advocating paying the tuition. We all know that employers screen for CS Degrees, but if you have experience and you can show it on your resume hopefully they'll look past the degree as a filter thing and bring you in for an interview. Feel free to use Free Code Camp, I'm not saying don't use it. I think if you use Free Code Camp and gain experience that you can show, it will look great.

The question about a degree versus experience is something people are always questioning. Why do they want to hire freshers out of school versus someone who's been doing it for several years and/or has an extensive background of proven experience? My response is more based around suggestions that exist out there that can get you to succeed. At the end of the day, a capstone project may not always count as experience, but it's something you'll see listed. Not all schools are going to properly prepare you for what to expect in the real world. Get in there, get your hands dirty and see if it's something you can pick up and see yourself doing for a career.

i wanted to ask u something that's awkward askng publicly so i snet u message.
thanks for the advice, and for clearing that your not on one side or the other of the bootcamp vs.degree debate

Networking_Student

I'm in WGU undergoing Software Development Course.

All students in WGU's IT programs have to take a web fundamentals class at the least. Just as we have to take a JavaScript class in addition to it all. Overall, I'm using codeacademy for its fullstack developer course-line. WHich apparently exceeds Microsoft's 480 exam which I'll be taking that as well on my own dime.

Overall, if you're doing CS, you should be as versatile with code you can be. As I've found a lot of jobs will throw you literally either direction.

Tech333

Networking_Student wrote: »

I'm in WGU undergoing Software Development Course.

All students in WGU's IT programs have to take a web fundamentals class at the least. Just as we have to take a JavaScript class in addition to it all. Overall, I'm using codeacademy for its fullstack developer course-line. WHich apparently exceeds Microsoft's 480 exam which I'll be taking that as well on my own dime.

Overall, if you're doing CS, you should be as versatile with code you can be. As I've found a lot of jobs will throw you literally either direction.

"a lot of jobs will throw you literally either direction" - how so?