Has anyone ever been called out on for having certifications?

Hello, I was on a phone interview with a very rude employer calling my A+ Certification "a line on a piece of paper". I couldn't believe how rude he was and he like this throughout the whole interview. Some employers think that since you're educated/taken classes in IT and have certifications that you should know EVERYTHING when they test/question you. This guy probably didn't have any certifications so he puts others down that do. I understand some just have experience in the field and don't want to be educated/certified which is fine and that is there choice but to put others down that do have certs is uncalled for. I never heard back from him and I'm glad.

Has this ever happen to you guys or anything similar? How do you guys feel about this? Thanks in advance.

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thomas_

I've never personally experienced that. That person doesn't sound like a person you want to work for. On the flip side, sometimes people will keep grilling you with harder and harder questions to see how much you know and won't stop until you don't know an answer. Some people interpret that as a bad thing, but it can be a really good thing too as long as you know your stuff. Then again it could uust be someone with a complex trying to prove they are smarter than you.

OctalDump

thomas_ wrote: »

That person doesn't sound like a person you want to work for.

It's going to happen sometimes, and you are far better off finding out in the interview than after a month or three of working there.

tmtex

IDK if this follows the subject but I had a phone interview which to start I told the guy I was in a car and asked if he can hear me Ok which was all good, anyway he drilled me with questions and then asked me what records would you work with MS Exchange. I was like oh..umm x, x , MX records!! He then accused me of looking it up. I said I am in a car, he quickly ended it. I was really offended.

Basic85

tmtex wrote: »

IDK if this follows the subject but I had a phone interview which to start I told the guy I was in a car and asked if he can hear me Ok which was all good, anyway he drilled me with questions and then asked me what records would you work with MS Exchange. I was like oh..umm x, x , MX records!! He then accused me of looking it up. I said I am in a car, he quickly ended it. I was really offended.

That's fine. I once had a phone interview in my car as well and the manager ask me if my phone was plugged into a power source because apparently I guess he gets disconnected/hanged up on a lot due to low battery LOL gee I wonder why and after talking to him than I knew, major red flag. He probably looked it up himself or was looking for a reason not to make you an offer. Just remember that the employer has the power to make an offer but you as the candidate have the power to walk away, keep that in mind for future interviews.

xengoreth

Basic85 wrote: »

Some employers think that since you're educated/taken classes in IT and have certifications that you should know EVERYTHING when they test/question you.

There's no replacement for actual experience.

In general a certification should be a reflection of your capabilities and adds legitimacy to one's claim of expertise in a certain area. It doesn't, however, prove expertise. Either you should have professional experience in the topic or you should have lab experience in the technology from studying it. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect questions about one's qualifications given the high percentage of certification holders using brain **** or who otherwise somehow have no expertise whatsoever in the certification they claim to have.

Danielm7

Not really in a very bad way, I did have one interview where they worked with a lot of Cisco gear and the guy said something like "oh you have your CCNA, I don't, but I don't think you need that to know how to do your job, so let me see what you know..." He really didn't even ask anything all that deep, like, describe the 3 way handshake, etc, I thought when he said it he was going to start asking me really unusual CLI commands.

Actually, now that I think about it I did have one person who commented on my degree and certs during another interview for a place I did end up working at. He said something about how he doesn't need them in his role (systems architect). I found out as I worked there that he was generally known as the guy who BSed his way into his position and didn't know very much of anything. I guess he was just insecure.

636-555-3226

Some hiring people put value in certs, some don't. As a hiring peep, I put a lot of value in certs (esp. for people who use them as a way to better their knowledge on a particular subject and then test themselves to verify they do actually know it) but then I verify that you actually learned the material contained in the cert. I usually have a prepared set of questions starting at the 101-level and then progressing into 201, 301, 401, 501, 601 levels to judge where you are. I usually go off the beaten track, though, as the conversation steers one way or the other. I also always tell people to let me know when they've reached the level of their knowledge and that not knowing the answer to a question is an acceptable answer. Not a day goes by that I don't have to look something up, so I don't expect people I hire to know every single thing about technology, either.

If I was interviewing somewhere and the employer starting devaluing the certification, I would let them know my opinion on certs. Yes, there are some sketchy ones out there (looking at you India-based infosec org.....), but many certifications (esp. the popular ones), do provide value to people that go into them with an open mind and want to learn more about a particular field. Sure, CompTIA's A+ isn't the same as the GIAC Security Expert, but if I found a 20-year old who passed A+ I'd tell them that's great news and helps to indicate they may know more than their peers and is a great way to challenge and better themselves. Belittling the work someone presumably puts into something they appear to care about isn't a great approach to a relationship....

ITSpectre

Normally people that do not hold some value in certs are the people you want to avoid. They dislike and de-value certs because THEY do not have any, or know anything about tech themselves. You can always tell people that are paper certified VS people that actually learned the info.
I was on a interview one time and the manager asked me "What is more important a certification or a degree" I replied "They both hold value with the recipient and the employer... the added value benefits both parties". The Manager then babbled about how certs are meaningless.... but I saw that he had 3 certs... so I asked him "sir since certs are meaningless then you wasted your time with yours as well correct?" He ended the interview and I never heard from him again.... later on a friend told me they fired him a week later due to lacking performance at work.....

lol.... payback.

Trucido

Yeah I can't see why someone would berate you for having certifications.. especially a recruiter/hiring manager. Maybe their life sucks, their job sucks, and they can't find the right person, and the fact that you're over qualified for the position makes them angry?

Who knows. Humans are a puzzle of emotions and greed.
Mostly greed.

aderon

I've never been called out in an interview about it, but I have had some interviewers question whether they were all up to date or if some of them had expired.

Once I've started working at a place however, I try not to discuss my cert count. If I'm asked, I usually just say "a few" and if they continue to ask I might give em like the top 3. But, yeah 9 times out of 10 if someone with experience, but no certifications finds out how many certifications I have, either via linkedin or some other method, there's always the same played-out conversation of how they didn't need them, that they learned the hard way, etc. It's fairly annoying and I'm assuming it comes from some bad experience they've had with cert dumpers who don't know anything or just insecurity in their own abilities.

Basic85

I agree with most of your guys comments. When I get certified I never claim to be an expert, it's a way for me to gain more knowledge and some jobs do require/prefer to be certified so it doesn't hurt either way. Some employers are just jealous/insecure that you have something that they don't so instead of getting certified themselves they attack you the candidate.

powerfool

I can't say that I have exactly had that experience. I did have an employer (was company president) that questioned why I was pursuing certificates (implying that they didn't have value... that was indeed his intent), and I responded back that the training regiment was something that was developed by a third-party and has some level of "completeness"... he was actually impressed by that logic.

Otherwise, the closest thing I have had to that was a new boss that I got (he was the 4th boss I had at this particular job), he reviewed my resume and we had our first one-on-one meeting and he was being dismissive of me as just a "tech guy". Now, this was intended as a jab because he was intimidated by me... I had less than zero respect for this guy... but I had applied for the job on two previous occasions and didn't get it. I always took this as an opportunity to learn from my new boss because obviously the employer saw something in them so I could find some way to improve my position. Not this guy. He was a "friend" of his boss and he was paranoid. All good, though. His opinion didn't bother me because it wasn't founded. My entire time at that company, I focused on meeting business objectives, reducing cost, sharing knowledge and increasing capabilities of our team; truly a business focused mindset on my part. So, no problem for me.

Someone who is outright dismissive of the certifications either doesn't have any or just isn't in-tune with the industry. Sure, they don't guarantee knowledge, but it surely doesn't prove anything to the opposite.

NetworkNewb

ITSpectre wrote: »

I was on a interview one time and the manager asked me "What is more important a certification or a degree" I replied "They both hold value with the recipient and the employer... the added value benefits both parties". The Manager then babbled about how certs are meaningless.... but I saw that he had 3 certs... so I asked him "sir since certs are meaningless then you wasted your time with yours as well correct?" He ended the interview and I never heard from him again....

Belittling the person interviewing you for a position (even if they are in the wrong...) , great strategy

Techytach

Might have been a "stress interview" maybe?

ITHokie

That has never happened to me, but, if some moron actually came at me with that line, I would shut it down immediately. I would be diplomatic about it, but I have a very low tolerance for glaring ignorance in my industry. It might be different if my career wasn't very established though...

EnderWiggin

I agree that certifications are just lines on a resume. Just as everything else is. You put down what you've accomplished, but if you can't back it up, then it's worthless.

Basic85

Techytach wrote: »

Might have been a "stress interview" maybe?

It might be but I seriously doubt it. It was a "stressful" interview rather he meant do it is anyone's guess though he was extremely condescending. Some of the other interviews I've been on employers didn't care if I was certified either way and to my shock didn't really test me, just ask me if I knew this and that. Agreed ITHokie, I wouldn't tolerate it if it were to happen again, I would just kindly end the interview and walk out/hang up.

I consider certification/education a good learning tool and a stepping stone for potential career advancement. There are companies out there that pay for their employees to be certified in a week bootcamp for thousands of dollars, if it were a waste of money/time why would a company do that? Also vendors put a lot of money into these certifications programs like Microsoft and Cisco. There's always going to be haters and haters are going to hate. I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing to better myself and my future.

Cyberscum

I work with guys that have been in the IT industry for 15-20+ years and most of them think certs are for idiots. They are some of the most knowledgeable people I have and most likely will ever meet.

We are constantly arguing about this very subject and here is the reality...

...most certs are solely there to make companies rich. They don't care about you, your career, your exp. All they care about is your money. Look at all of the boot camps for CISSP, CCNP, CEH and a million others. 8570 pushed certs to become so devalued that it has become a joke. I have personally seen gov sponsered boot camps where instructors were "coaching" tests.

But...certs have become a requirement in IT, just like IT degrees soon will. It is reality. Where there is money to be made in a capitalist economy people will make it. Lobbyists will make laws and regs to make requirements and while they get rich on the back end the only one who suffers is us. The gov is littered with IT guys that know absolutely nothing about IT. I would imagine the civilian world is the same.

IT was once a career where your value was solely based on your knowledge... it no longer is. It has become what the nursing boom was five to seven years ago. Degree mill after degree mill to take peoples money. Until the IT career as a whole stands up and refuses to apply for jobs that req certs and degrees we are destined for all the same crap requirements as every other job out there.

I digress. Point is that some people hate certs, not because of what they are, but what they stand for. Just another way to control and segregate. We choose to accept it or refuse to accept it. The guys I work with refuse to get certs even though the company requires it. Their philosophy is this, "if you don't think I'm qualified then fire me". Needless to say some of the have waivers for their "cert" requirements.

Brush it off and just keep learning. You know what your worth is, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

GSXR750K2

There's always the possibility the guy had tried to work in IT but wasn't cut out for the continuous learning involved and is relegated to a position where he sees certs that remind him how lazy he is.

Some certs mean more to companies than others for a variety of reasons. For example, if a company has enough Cisco certified people at a certain level then the company gets discounts on Cisco products (at least they used to). They may value their employees' practical knowledge more than certs, but the certs are a value from a business (dollar) perspective so the company may be willing to invest in itself by investing in its employees' education. So the best bet is to have the cert and the knowledge.

Remember, an interview is a two-way street...they want to know if you're the right fit for them and you should find out if they are the right fit for you. Nowhere is it written that you have to wait for the interviewer to end the discussion. Sometimes you'll run across those kinds people and the best thing to do is thank them for their time and let them know that you have enough information to make a decision about the position, especially if things are going sideways quickly. It catches them off guard, it keeps you from being berated further, and it's a diplomatic way to tell them what they can do with their selfie stick.

ITSpectre

GSXR750K2 wrote: »

There's always the possibility the guy had tried to work in IT but wasn't cut out for the continuous learning involved and is relegated to a position where he sees certs that remind him how lazy he is.

Some certs mean more to companies than others for a variety of reasons. For example, if a company has enough Cisco certified people at a certain level then the company gets discounts on Cisco products (at least they used to). They may value their employees' practical knowledge more than certs, but the certs are a value from a business (dollar) perspective so the company may be willing to invest in itself by investing in its employees' education. So the best bet is to have the cert and the knowledge.

Remember, an interview is a two-way street...they want to know if you're the right fit for them and you should find out if they are the right fit for you. Nowhere is it written that you have to wait for the interviewer to end the discussion. Sometimes you'll run across those kinds people and the best thing to do is thank them for their time and let them know that you have enough information to make a decision about the position, especially if things are going sideways quickly. It catches them off guard, it keeps you from being berated further, and it's a diplomatic way to tell them what they can do with their selfie stick.

Good Point. I make it a habit that if the interview is going sideways I end it with them....

I had a interview at x company over the phone.... They did not call at the specific time they were supposed to. In fact they did not call at all!!!! So I called the recruiter that called me and she set up a interview for the next day at 230p. Well 230p came and went. So they ended up calling at 2:55p. Normally when a job does not call when they are supposed to, they get a 15min grace time (according to job boards). Given the fact that they did not call the day prior.... and then was late calling the next day.... I decided to end the interview with them and answered the phone to thank them for the call and that I was "no longer available for this position"

The manager was not expecting that at all... I refuse to allow my time to be wasted.... if one job does not want me, there is another job that does.

TechGromit

Cyberscum wrote: »

The gov is littered with IT guys that know absolutely nothing about IT. I would imagine the civilian world is the same.

It is, we have this contractor that had no idea how to check to see if a computer had a static network address set. And the kicker is he's worked for us for 6 years. He's good at the mindless repetition help desk tasks that no one else wants to be bothered with, but any troubleshooting, he's useless. Unfortunately he's getting laid off next week, due to budget cuts. The rest of us will have to pick up the slack by answering mindless help desk calls.

UnixGuy

OP just be aware of the fact that person who interviewed you is a bully.

Sheiko37

I recently saw someone who after a lot of correspondence with (ISC)² was proudly announcing that he finally had his name stricken from all of their records that he ever held the CISSP certification, even though it was long expired, that wasn't enough. He considered any association with the CISSP as a blight and wanted it removed.

Danielm7

Sheiko37 wrote: »

I recently saw someone who after a lot of correspondence with (ISC)² was proudly announcing that he finally had his name stricken from all of their records that he ever held the CISSP certification, even though it was long expired, that wasn't enough. He considered any association with the CISSP as a blight and wanted it removed.

People like that are either really strange, or lying, in my experience anyway.

I have another coworker who thinks any cert can be crammed and dumped for in a few days. Just yesterday he told me he saw a job listing for a part time, night work OK, pen tester. He has ZERO pen testing or security skills, he's been a network engineer forever though. He showed me a link for the GPEN and forwarded me a pdf from some **** site and said he's thinking of just reading that this weekend and taking the test next week then going to get the job... Hah, good luck with that, buddy! He didn't even realize there was a SANS course, the cost, requirements, nothing, just that if there was a possible **** file he could pass it easily. He did the same thing when I passed the CISSP, said he's considering just reading the file from his site and knocking it out too, ugh.

TechGromit

Danielm7 wrote: »

Just yesterday he told me he saw a job listing for a part time, night work OK, pen tester.

This is something I would be interested in doing part time for a short term gig. Screw fixing clueless users PC's for pick up some extra cash, I would love to get paid for the skills I have.

joemc3

Certifications are fine and have real value. It's the same thing with college. What do you want to get out of it? Yes, you can cram and pass, but did you learn anything? I can go to college and obtain my degree with a C average and party most nights. Did I learn anything?

Remedymp

These stories of IT managers or hiring managers really makes confirms what I've thought before: They bring their personal bias from home and infuse the work environment with bullshit to the point where it becomes too toxic to work. The sad part is that, they collect a pay check every week and go unscrutinized by HR. These people are usually racist as well.

ITSpectre

Remedymp wrote: »

These stories of IT managers or hiring managers really makes confirms what I've thought before: They bring their personal bias from home and infuse the work environment with bullshit to the point where it becomes too toxic to work. The sad part is that, they collect a pay check every week and go unscrutinized by HR. These people are usually racist as well.

I had a manager that said "certifications are a waste.... you can get them but they dont show anything of merit... they are just pieces of paper". everyone told me stores of how nobody liked him... he would send threatening emails to employees and management eventually fired him

Remedymp

ITSpectre wrote: »

I had a manager that said "certifications are a waste.... you can get them but they dont show anything of merit... they are just pieces of paper". everyone told me stores of how nobody liked him... he would send threatening emails to employees and management eventually fired him

Loose cannons.

Basic85

How about other certifications in other fields such as accounting, medical, etc? Do they matter? This seems like more of an issue in the IT field than any other. It's not standardize so it varies among different employers/people. We can't please everyone so continue getting certified and learning in the end this will benefit you. Some of the guys in my classes were laid off in there 40's and going back to school to update themselves.