Is it normal for recruiters to...

si20

For those who have followed my previous threads: I left the Security Analyst roles behind me and got into Digital Forensics for law enforcement. Unfortunately the role has left a LOT to be desired. They've had me lifting computers, re-ordering exhibits and imaging (aka copying drives). It has got to be a new low for me. I was expecting to actually investigate - but no... My colleagues have approx 1 year of IT experience between them (compared to my 8 yrs) and constantly boss me about - my heart sinks when they walk into the room. They're truly awful to work with.

So i've decided that my next role will be a long-term role in something I know I can do well and enjoy enough to stay there long-term. I applied for 3 jobs (2nd/3rd line support and a senior security position where i'd be hunting malware). The recruiter called me up today for the 2nd/3rd line support role and said: "Hey i've got you an interview!" I replied "Excellent! When is it?" I was expecting him to say, next week, or, two weeks away... "It's Wednesday".

I'd previously told him that I need 1 weeks notice for an interview. "Can I re-arrange it because I have previously mentioned that I needed a weeks notice?"

The recruiter then went on to tell me that an employer wont wait 1-2 weeks, that i'll be lucky to find an employer who will interview me and a whole host of other negativity. Do recruiters thrive off of negativity or what? The recruiter then finally asked me: "Would you call in sick on Wednesday?" I said no! I consider that unprofessional and what's more, I don't get sick pay on my current temp contract.

Is it normal for recruiters to be so negative and even ask you to call in sick to get to interviews??

On the plus side, the senior security role is a permanent position with a very understanding employer.

Lexluethar

Sounds like a big D bag that cannot follow directions. When i work with recruiters i say the same thing, i need at least 5 business days notice for an interview. You are employed so you have to follow procedure and etiquette when requesting off.

I would literally call / email that recruiter back and tell them how you feel. Say hey look if you cannot follow a simple request or if a company doesn't have the decency to give you that request I would not want to work for that company or with a recruiter like that. If they truly were that negative i would just say hey man, thanks for the help but I cannot deal with your toxic attitude, good luck to you.

blatini

No that is not common. I have had people do that (usually ones who work for very small recruiting places) but it's maybe one in every 20 calls I have received. You can do what Lexluethar is saying, but personally I just don't even bother. When you're looking for a new job the amount of time you spend on the phone can be exhausting and sometimes noticeable if you are currently working. If people are that rude then chances are they're going to give you the sales call treatment when you speak with them and you'll be better off not wasting your time.

Danielm7

Did the understanding employer reschedule for a week+ out at least? I try to be flexible when hiring, but I know some people I work with will call the recruiter after looking at a resume and ask if the person can come in in less than 48 hours. But, when people can't do that, they are normally understanding enough to reschedule without issue.

si20

Thanks for the replies.

@Daniel - The recruiter said if I can't make wednesday next week, then the company wont budge. I told him to have a good weekend and goodbye, because he wasn't going to even try asking the company to re-arrange. To tell the truth - I absolutely hate recruiters with a passion. I much prefer going direct to a company. I find that most recruiters are jobsworths.

Lexluethar

Not all recruiters are bad - but 90% of them honestly don't give two craps about you or your future. They care about the 'sale' - getting you in the seat and getting their commission. It's similar to any sales position - while there are a few out there that genuinely do care about you and your success, i would say that the majority don't and just want to make the sale.

If you keep that in mind when speaking with recruiters you will be a lot happier - expect them NOT to look for YOUR best interests and you'll come out ahead. It stinks because in IT (at least in USA) dealing with recruiters is really required - a lot of companies don't deal with direct applicants because they have this thought that recruiters weed out unqualified candidates. This is not true and in fact in my experience recruiters don't give two craps about your qualifications.

Remedymp

Part of the pushy tactics from recruiters is that the client wants the resource to be available immediately. Instant gratification of the client and the overselling of the firm to fulfill a fantasy that can't fulfilled. Recruiter probably is overworked, underpaid or trying to reach the margin.

I had a recruiter trying to fill me in on Security Analyst role for $14/hr. I said you're crazy, no one would ever work for that kind of money. He was so pushy he insisted that there were people out just lined up and waiting. Needless to say, they still have not filled that position, and probably never will.

kohr-ah

Nah not normal. Some are not pleasant to deal with and you did the right thing.

Hey no I cant do this til xyz.
Client cant do that.
Okay well best of luck to you then.
*Hang up and hope they go play pokemon go in traffic and continue on your merry way.*

greg9891

kohr-ah wrote: »

Nah not normal. Some are not pleasant to deal with and you did the right thing.

Hey no I cant do this til xyz.
Client cant do that.
Okay well best of luck to you then.
*Hang up and hope they go play pokemon go in traffic and continue on your merry way.*

LOL LOL for real man thats the truth you gatta move on to a recruiter that will help you.

J_86

Not normal, but a lot of times recruiters are trying to fill positions that other recruiting companies are also finding candidates for. That is why they get in such a hurry and pushy sometimes.

networker050184

I just try to keep some perspective. We aren't their customers. The hiring company is. As soon as they think the company won't like you you're worthless to them for now. Don't take it personal. This guy might find you your dream job next year if he keeps your resume on file.

fmitawaps

IT recruiters are very similar to used car salesmen. As long as the car gets sold / job gets filled and they get their commission, who cares if it is the right person or a good deal?

thomas_

I was just thinking that recruiters are like strippers. They try to make it seem like they like you, but in the end they're just using you to get money.

GSXR750K2

When they start that with me I tell them I always give at least two weeks of notice. Many don't accept it and push back, then I just casually state that I would extend the same courtesy to their firm or whomever I would ultimately go full time with, then I ask if that sounds fair to them and/or their client. If they say "no", then they've obviously have tied their own noose and the conversation is over. If they say "yes", then I ask why it's unreasonable for me to do the same with my current employer.

They usually stumble over the "but this is a great opportunity" selling points trying to gain back control of the conversation, but I just thank them for the consideration and wish them well in filling the role. They realize it's a lose/lose for them at that point and it's a diplomatic way of telling them that they are being unprofessional and that I want nothing to do with them.

TechGromit

I would expect this kind of crap from recruiters representing clients with little experience or few certifications. But a OSCP is a highly respected cert, I would think you would get a little more respect from recruiters.

GSXR750K2

TechGromit wrote: »

I would expect this kind of crap from recruiters representing clients with little experience or few certifications. But a OSCP is a highly respected cert, I would think you would get a little more respect from recruiters.

Very true, if the recruiter in question knows what it is. I once had a recruiter ask me, after reviewing my server experience and checking the MCSE off of her list, if I'd ever worked with Active Directory. Many recruiters I've had the misfortune of speaking with have a passing familiarity at best and aren't aware of what different certs entail or how they align with the technologies or positions they are recruiting for.

They are given a position, keywords and/or acronyms to look for, and a set of questions. It's sad that people like the one who spoke to si20 have been placed at the front line of talent acquisition.

TheFORCE

networker050184 wrote: »

I just try to keep some perspective. We aren't their customers. The hiring company is. As soon as they think the company won't like you you're worthless to them for now. Don't take it personal. This guy might find you your dream job next year if he keeps your resume on file.

This is true, you need to develop some thick skin man and not take it personally when things don't go your way or when recruiters are being shady. Recently one of the recruiters that helped me find my current job send me an email asking if I was interesting to leave the employer they helped for another employer. I was thinking to myself.. really? you trying to poach me from the company you placed me after 1 year? lol.

I've followed your posts si20 and I can tell you are frustrated but you might be hurting yourself in the job search if you are only relying on the big guns certs like the OSCP. You said you have 8 years of experience but you let other 1 year experience people boss you around, manI would put those newbies in their place if they did that to me.

The other thing I would consider is that maybe you should take a well recognized certification like Sec+ or CISSP or an ISACA cert that are more recognized. These certs might help your job search more if the market you are working knows these certs more than the OSCP.

fmitawaps

I've had an idea recently to make recruiters see things my way. A $500 cash reward.

I'd sent out a wave of emails, saying that all my local tech recruiters are getting the same email at the same time. First one to get me HIRED, not just an interview, but fully HIRED in a desktop support job gets $300, or $500 if I get a data center job. First come first served, only one prize will be awarded, GO!!!

That would turn the tables. Instead of me having to be nice to them, I'd use their greed to play them off each other and make them work for me!

I think that could work.

si20

TheFORCE wrote: »

This is true, you need to develop some thick skin man and not take it personally when things don't go your way or when recruiters are being shady. Recently one of the recruiters that helped me find my current job send me an email asking if I was interesting to leave the employer they helped for another employer. I was thinking to myself.. really? you trying to poach me from the company you placed me after 1 year? lol.

I've followed your posts si20 and I can tell you are frustrated but you might be hurting yourself in the job search if you are only relying on the big guns certs like the OSCP. You said you have 8 years of experience but you let other 1 year experience people boss you around, manI would put those newbies in their place if they did that to me.

The other thing I would consider is that maybe you should take a well recognized certification like Sec+ or CISSP or an ISACA cert that are more recognized. These certs might help your job search more if the market you are working knows these certs more than the OSCP.

I really do need to put the newbies in their place, but the worst thing is, the two newbies aren't even knowledgeable. One of them has a 2:1 degree and I know she cheated to get it (I was at the same University as her) and the other guy has a 2:2. I know people who got 2:2's and they barely turned up to even get it.

I'm hoping that the other company get back to me ASAP and I can begin the interview process and hopefully move over and have that as my long-term job.

chmod

networker050184 wrote: »

I just try to keep some perspective. We aren't their customers. The hiring company is. As soon as they think the company won't like you you're worthless to them for now. Don't take it personal. This guy might find you your dream job next year if he keeps your resume on file.

Agreed.

That is called emotional maturity.

Remedymp

fmitawaps wrote: »

IT recruiters are very similar to used car salesmen. As long as the car gets sold / job gets filled and they get their commission, who cares if it is the right person or a good deal?

Actually, that's not how it works.

kcos0320

Thanks for the laughs how Recruiters are so pushy like used car salesmen. They call me all the time for jobs that are only contract which I clearly I am not interested in. What I dont get is currently I live in California, but these recruiters are calling from all areas of the US. If they have broken accents I tend to not to call them back.

danny069

Try not to deal with a recruiter if you can, deal directly with a hiring manager or HR for the company.

Tremie24

When I was looking for my first IT job I had delt with all the recruiters from all the different companies. I had one that wanted me to work for this major ISP, but it was going to be as an office assistant, filing paper work etc. His thinking was that if I did that for awhile I would be able to get in good with company and move into IT position. Pssshhhhh yeah right. I kept on the job hunt and a few months later I got my first full time permanent IT job. I'm sure there are some decent recruiters out there but I haven't ran into any. Stay away from recruiters as much as possible.

TechGromit

si20 wrote: »

One of them has a 2:1 degree and I know she cheated to get it (I was at the same University as her) and the other guy has a 2:2. I know people who got 2:2's and they barely turned up to even get it.

Sorry I never finished college, hell I'm lucky I didn't flunk out of elementary school. I'm not edumacated as much as others. What's 2:1 and 2:2 degree mean?

TechGromit

kcos0320 wrote: »

Thanks for the laughs how Recruiters are so pushy like used car salesmen. They call me all the time for jobs that are only contract which I clearly I am not interested in. What I dont get is currently I live in California, but these recruiters are calling from all areas of the US. If they have broken accents I tend to not to call them back.

It's pretty much the same as online scammers, they know that 99.9% of there email solicitations were going to end of up the spam folder, but they really only need one sucker in 10,000 to make it worth there efforts. And despite all attempts to educate the general population, there seems to be an endless supply of suckers. The same holds true with recruiters, sure most of us ignore them, but someone, somewhere listens to them to be make it worth there wild. If it didn't work, they would stop doing it.

Kinet1c

I will not ever deal with 3rd party recruiters. They're on the same level as estate agents (realtors for those in the US) or used car salesmen. They're out to make the sale whether you or the company are happy.

As for moving forward, now that you've left your former employer, you can now apply to my former employer which are based in Dublin but would be a very good environment for you to work in. If you've any questions, just shout. Best of luck with it all.