ITT TECH Closed for business

Verities

Danielm7 wrote: »

I'm sure administration is a huge cost, I'd be curious to see the breakdown as well. I know in my experience the schools have changed too. For example, my wife went to a local collage maybe 15 years ago. We went back recently for some paperwork. The place has gone up in cost SIGNIFICANTLY, and it looks completely different. The old cafe was tiny but fine. Now they have chain restaurants in there and starbucks. The gym that was being built 10 years ago, is now already being replaced because the kids expect something nicer. Some of these building projects are in the 10s of millions of dollars it's crazy. We asked someone at the school about all the changes and they said all the schools locally have upgraded so unless it looks as nice or nicer than the other places kids won't want to go there no matter how good of an education they offer.

My own niece just turned down a really good package at a great school in state for another one that has a Chipotle... The difference between the costs will be over 30K a year. Her parents thought it was fine and funny that she used that as the deciding factor. She's entering a 6 year program so the restaurant choice on campus will cost a total of 180 thousand dollars extra, and no one else sees a problem with this.

Totally true, its a competition between schools to get bodies because bodies = $$$. They invest millions into making the campuses nicer and adding more eateries/places to hang out to entice potential students, which results in higher tuition costs. The colleges don't care because they get paid either way.

Remedymp

Verities wrote: »

Totally true, its a competition between schools to get bodies because bodies = $$$. They invest millions into making the campuses nicer and adding more eateries/places to hang out to entice potential students, which results in higher tuition costs. The colleges don't care because they get paid either way.

Well you'd be surprised. Every campus is basically it's own franchise. They're given a budget for the year from the parent and spend it how they would like.

For example: I remember when my instructor (One of the senior directors from Cisco ) told the front office we should be learning how to make our fiber optic cables and get ready for the CCNA. They gave him the corporate card and he went out and purchased a CCNA training rack with all the necessary switches and routers and few 1U rack servers to load up VM's on to perform site to site operations.

Other ITT campuses at the time were not doing this at all. FWIW.

jeremywatts2005

Remedymp wrote: »

Well you'd be surprised. Every campus is basically it's own franchise. They're given a budget for the year from the parent and spend it how they would like.

For example: I remember when my instructor (One of the senior directors from Cisco ) told the front office we should be learning how to make our fiber optic cables and get ready for the CCNA. They gave him the corporate card and he went out and purchased a CCNA training rack with all the necessary switches and routers and few 1U rack servers to load up VM's on to perform site to site operations.

Other ITT campuses at the time were not doing this at all. FWIW.

Exactly Remedymp that is what I used to do with my instructors. We always had great equipment and hired top tier talent in the area. I remember our P Cards could allow for $500 without being considered a capitol purchase. So we as a team in academics got all the equipment in $500 increments. Just separated the orders up to make it happen for the students. The director was ticked but nothing they could do because it was under $500 on each card. That was the rule and we followed it. They forget these types of things drive retention which is students staying in school and it drives learning and placement. Take care of the students everything takes care of itself. Shoot I even had to offer classes on a Saturday so I went out and made a deal with Burger King that every Saturday of the quarter we would buy breakfast for all 200 students on campus. It cost $350 a saturday to do it. We did not lose a single student that quarter from a Saturday class. Other campuses they were dropping like flies.

gespenstern

Fully support those here, who are for for-profit schools and oppose those pro-socialism. You guys probably never lived in a socialist country, this approach for society structure almost always fails.

Less regulations and more schools that what would be beneficial instead of shutting them down because they don't meet whatever government standard.

Remedymp

gespenstern wrote: »

Fully support those here, who are for for-profit schools and oppose those pro-socialism. You guys probably never lived in a socialist country, this approach for society structure almost always fails.

Less regulations and more schools that what would be beneficial instead of shutting them down because they don't meet whatever government standard.

I think you might be missing the point here. It's not about being Pro or Against For Profit. The design of For Profit was to benefit the share holders and the lobbyist who got kick backs. ITT was on the stock market trading at $92/share four years ago. Today, they're down $2/share. Once share holders were able to cash out, the fed stepped in playing good cop bad cop and every one made off in the middle of the night.

China is stomping on the US in terms of STEM as well as the Russians who spend considerably less on their Defense budget and more on educating their population. Same thing with Latin America (Cuba is a good example) and Turkey and Israel.

The countries that are stomping the US do not have student loan debt issues. The ones that have student loan issues are suffering: Canada, UK, US.

Verities

Remedymp wrote: »

China is stomping on the US in terms of STEM as well as the Russians who spend considerably less on their Defense budget and more on educating their population. Same thing with Latin America (Cuba is a good example) and Turkey and Israel.

The countries that are stomping the US do not have student loan debt issues. The ones that have student loan issues are suffering: Canada, UK, US.

Cuba spends the most, however it barely has functioning Internet, Israel spends slightly more of their GDP on education over the US, Canada spends roughly the same amount of its GDP on education as the US, and the UK invests more than Israel:

Government expenditure on education, total (% of GDP) | Data

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2206rank.html#us

Kind of glad you talked about this because it gave me a chance to compare actual data and the US has an earlier starting age than Russia and a later ending age than China. Due to our education standards, we actually receive more education (17 years) than any of the countries you listed, except for the UK. Also, I would trade student loans over numerous human rights violations.

volfkhat

Verities wrote: »

Also, I would trade student loans over numerous human rights violations.

Well...
exorbitant (& non-dischargeable) student loans are just a modern form of indentured servitude.

Arguably.

JockVSJock

Sounds like its the beginning of the end...the student loan bubble is beginning to burst.

Looks like, we, the Tax Payer, will pick up the tab:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-08/29000-itt-students-are-suddenly-stuck-limbo-guess-what-happens-their-student-loans

I remember talking to them back in the late 90s about going to school there, its was like high pressure sales to get a student to sign up for class there...

gespenstern

Remedymp wrote: »

China is stomping on the US in terms of STEM as well as the Russians who spend considerably less on their Defense budget and more on educating their population.

LOL. Russia is nowhere near the US on STEM and probably will never be. The higher education in Russia is in ruins and when you complain about the US higher education keep in mind that other countries may be doing even worse than that. That's why all the folks there who have monies send their children to study in, surprise, American and UK for-profit universities.

There was arguably good STEM (at the expense of everything else) during Soviet times but it's no more.

When you folks complain about your life in the first world country, such as the US, including education, you make me laugh. It's not ideal and yet it's one of the best -- that's why people want to move to the US and not vice versa. Still the best though, but given that more and more folks here tend to think that the more government the better and ready to vote for Sanders I won't be surprised if this country well-being will deteriorate.

Cuba is now more open so go ahead set aside a few years of your life and go study in a typical average Cuba higher education institution and then share your experiences. I bet you'll find a lot of things to complain about.

Capitalism has its issues and yet it's better than everything else and for-profit schools are better on average than not-for-profit.

ITHokie

Remedymp wrote: »

Well, Crony Capitalism was exactly how the country was founded. But, that's besides the point.

This was a planned operation. They're not sanctioning the schools because of morality. They're sanctioning them now because lobbyist got their cut and the CEO's made off very well. This is also happening with the Private For Profit prisons as well like CCA and GEO.

The idea that you can shut down an institution because they promise jobs to students that they could never fulfill in an slumping economy, in a country that has essentially outsourced all of its serviced based job oversees is a joke. If that were the case, they would have to shut down many other private institutions as well like NorthEastern or NorthWestern or George Washington university, etc. But, they're not going to go after those schools (D1-D4).

If you want to know more about the lobbying in congress, I believe PBS ran a documentary about this about 10 years ago called College or something to that effect. I can't remember name now, but they exposed all of this.

Our already pay for the public institutions to begin with, why should a resident have to pay for attending the same institution?

And they wonder why the US is ranked very low in comparison to other countries when it comes to post secondary education.

Even if there is one PBS documentary from 10 years ago, the evidence will be anecdotal. I'm certain there is some of that going on, but the question is one of scale - does this apply to all for-profit Universities, or just the few that the media like trot out to make the case that they are what is wrong with higher education.

As has already been pointed out, nothing could be further from the truth. Tuition prices have skyrocketed vs incomes for all of higher ed, and this has nothing to do with paying faculty. Someone already pointed out that it has everything to do with competing for "free" money (loans) - better dining facilities, better athletic facilities, nicer dorms, diversity programs, and administrator bloat to run it all. Students are taking on mountains of debt, mostly from "non-profits", and graduating with few real world skills and weak job prospects. We're in a full on education bubble that has very little to do with for-profit institutions.

Remedymp

ITT Tech Sued for Deceiving Students

NetworkingStudent

Some thoughts..
I attended a for profit school, because I worked nights and they offered a flexible schedule.
The school I attended never informed me, or other students that our credits wouldn’t transfer to other colleges.
I had some great instructors like “JeremyWatts”, and some not so great instructors.
I had more good instructors, than bad ones.

A college degree is great to have, but it's what you do after college that counts.

I agree with others that all colleges are for profit!!

I don’t think state colleges are perfect though..
How can a college offer a class on Pokemon, and call it a physical education class? See link below
https://www.uidaho.edu/news/news-articles/news-releases/2016-july/072216-pokemon

I think right now the spot light is focused to heavily on for profit colleges. The state college system makes mistakes too!!

I’m waiting for the education bubble to burst.

Also, I’m also waiting for the for profit college witch hunt to end.

At some point students need to be responsible for their own decisions, this includes choosing a college.

Remedymp

Even if there is one PBS documentary from 10 years ago, the evidence will be anecdotal. I'm certain there is some of that going on, but the question is one of scale - does this apply to all for-profit Universities, or just the few that the media like trot out to make the case that they are what is wrong with higher education.

The citations are there within documentary itself.

Students are taking on mountains of debt, mostly from "non-profits"

This was my original point. Why only go after the Brick or Mortar institutions like ITT and Devry and UoP? Why not shut down all of the accredited institutions too for the very same reasoning?

What I am saying is: Someone or some people in office had some heavy investments into the Brick and Mortar for profit institutions that are now expendable and can be shut down because those shareholders got their cut already.

fmitawaps

ITT degrees are useful for emergency toilet paper. That's about it.

tmtex

I worked with a guy last year and he had a student loan he was paying off of 50K from ITT, I think when I left he had 30K to go wonder if he still has to pay it. 30 Something yrs old and had to live with his parent to pay it off.

Now how and why do coaches of popular real colleges make 7 figures

ramrunner800

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

Guys bashing on ITT as being bad you do not know the education industry as a whole. There are some really crappy and I mean really crappy non profit groups out there. Teaching all sorts of junk to students like microagression courses. There are colleges out there that have tenured professors from overseas who have never touched a system in their life and they grad students who couldn't work on a help desk day one. Remember there are all sorts of colleges out there and not all the for profits are bad and not all the ITT Tech campuses are bad. There are some bad ITT Tech campuses as well as other college groups out there. Trust me I know and have ran into them. It gets really sleazy when you get in on the non profit side. You have state kickbacks and all sorts of political corruption on that side. Also the non profit are held to a lesser standard and do not have some of the more heavily imposed regulations of for profit. Just saying not everything is as it seems.

Dat dean grammar doe. I feel like not much more needs to be said really.

JockVSJock

Remedymp wrote: »

Why not shut down all of the accredited institutions too for the very same reasoning?

Agreed.

Everyone is chasing after the almighty dollar and has lost sight of educating for a successful career.

Case in point. When I went to grad school, what sold me is that the counsolor basically said that the degree program that I wanted was heavy on tech skills and that I would have no problems finding a high paying job.

Once I got into class, all of the classes were heavy in MS Powerpoint, the teachers struggled to deviate from the material is someone asked questions that were outside of the MS Powerpoint and it was bureaucratic nightmare of trying to get onto a tech project that some teacher was trying to run for research.

Once I left, the only job I was qualified for was help desk, along with many other students and I know some never found work...

markulous

I'll agree that it's the education system in a whole and not necessarily JUST the for-profit schools.

There should be a significantly reduced cost on bachelor's degrees in certain fields at the very least. E.g. Agriculture, medical, engineering, etc. In demand and practical degree fields should be very inexpensive. Between my wife and I, we've probably got around 100k in debt between the both of us and she doesn't even have a degree..

JockVSJock

markulous wrote: »

. Between my wife and I, we've probably got around 100k in debt between the both of us and she doesn't even have a degree..

For some reason, at the time, I had the foresight to not take any college loans. I don't know why. So I've graduated with my Bachelors and Masters with 0% debt. So I worked full time and went to school full time. Wasn't the best of times, however I'm glad I did it.

Don't let anyone tell you differently, debt is the new form of enslavement and control.

Buyer beware before taking any out any college loans.

...and there should be no forgiveness for college loan debt. That is a slap in the face of those who were financially responsible and encourages recklessness in loaning money for college degrees.

The education system is sick and the only cure if for it to collapse in on itself.

Russell77

The old Chris Rock routine puts education in perspective. And highlites the point that it is about the job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vSMrnFQyhI

Russell77

And this is how US news ranks universities around the world. I don't see one thing on this list that matters to someone who wants to get a good job.



[TH]Ranking indicator[/TH]
[TH]Weight[/TH]


Global research reputation
Weight: 12.5%


Regional research reputation
Weight: 12.5%


Publications
Weight: 10%


Books
Weight: 2.5%


Conferences
Weight: 2.5%


Normalized citation impact
Weight: 10%


Total citations
Weight: 7.5%


Number of publications that are among the 10 percent most cited
Weight: 12.5%


Percentage of total publications that are among the 10 percent most cited
Weight: 10%


International collaboration
Weight: 10%


Number of Ph.D.s awarded
Weight: 5%


Number of Ph.D.s awarded per academic staff member
Weight: 5%

JockVSJock

Russell77 wrote: »

The old Chris Rock routine puts education in perspective. And highlites the point that it is about the job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vSMrnFQyhI

While Chris Rock is "entertaining," here are some folks who are educators and actually were part of the education system, which they are now denouncing:

former college professor, Marty Nemko:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMr2BxA_HVU

former High School Teacher and NYC Teacher of the year John Taylor Gatto:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww4m8GUK69E


Seems like a number of my posts/threads continue to be deleted from this website...not sure why...so enjoy it while you can.

markulous

JockVSJock wrote: »

For some reason, at the time, I had the foresight to not take any college loans. I don't know why. So I've graduated with my Bachelors and Masters with 0% debt. So I worked full time and went to school full time. Wasn't the best of times, however I'm glad I did it.

Don't let anyone tell you differently, debt is the new form of enslavement and control.

Buyer beware before taking any out any college loans.

...and there should be no forgiveness for college loan debt. That is a slap in the face of those who were financially responsible and encourages recklessness in loaning money for college degrees.

The education system is sick and the only cure if for it to collapse in on itself.

The loan forgiveness that is setup is fine with 10 years no missed payments. I'm not asking for our loans to just disappear, but it'd be nice to not have $800 a month and on top of that it doesn't even touch the principle.

JockVSJock

markulous wrote: »

The loan forgiveness that is setup is fine with 10 years no missed payments. I'm not asking for our loans to just disappear, but it'd be nice to not have $800 a month and on top of that it doesn't even touch the principle.

There are many ways to pay off debt:

- US Military Service, if your of age and you serve honorably, they will pay off a certain amount. Also look into the national guard/reserves too.

- Take on a part time job, I know a number of folks who have done this to help pay down student loans

- There are a ton of financial blogs that post advise, such as stop being a consumer and cancel things like Netflix, eating out all of the time, stop shopping all of the time and use that money to make an extra payment:

Our Student Loan Debt Payoff Story-- SixFiguresUnder.com

What’s the Best Way to Pay Off Debt?

Google around, I'm sure you'll find something to that fits your needs.

markulous

I can afford to pay them, that's not really what I was getting at. They're just absurdly high with too much interest. I'll probably just aim to pay the bare minimum for 10 years and get them wiped out.

EANx

Russell77 wrote: »

And this is how US news ranks universities around the world. I don't see one thing on this list that matters to someone who wants to get a good job.



[TH]Ranking indicator[/TH]
[TH]Weight[/TH]


Global research reputation
Weight: 12.5%


Regional research reputation
Weight: 12.5%


Publications
Weight: 10%


Books
Weight: 2.5%


Conferences
Weight: 2.5%


Normalized citation impact
Weight: 10%


Total citations
Weight: 7.5%


Number of publications that are among the 10 percent most cited
Weight: 12.5%


Percentage of total publications that are among the 10 percent most cited
Weight: 10%


International collaboration
Weight: 10%


Number of Ph.D.s awarded
Weight: 5%


Number of Ph.D.s awarded per academic staff member
Weight: 5%

Good info if you're looking for a PhD. While I know three people in IT with PhDs, only one is at the executive level and no one thinks the made it because of his degree.

EANx

JockVSJock wrote: »

There are many ways to pay off debt:

- US Military Service, if your of age and you serve honorably, they will pay off a certain amount. Also look into the national guard/reserves too.

GI Bill has a number of benefits and restrictions. GI Bill is an awesome way to pay for college / trade school but yes, you do have to join the military to get it. There's a lot of details to gaining / using the GI Bill, more than "if you serve honorably, they will pay off a certain amount" but it will pay for the majority of a four-year college education plus allowance once you qualify. If you're careful with your funds, you won't need to work a job while in college.

JockVSJock

If you can afford them, then you can afford to make an extra payment each month.

When making an extra loan payment, you must instruct them to apply that payment to the principle of the loan then, if you are ever going to get on top of your student loans:

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/extra-student-loan-payments-applied-correctly-maximizing-savings-on-interest/

http://www.clearpoint.org/blog/best-way-to-pay-off-student-loans/

TechGromit

Clm wrote: »

I know of a few people who have ITT tech degrees or have attended. Now that they are closing I would suggest anyone who is attending to jump ship and come to WGU while your credits still exist

Reminds me of my own tech school, Brick Computer Science Institute, it was a stand alone tech school offering training in Computer Programming, Computer Operator and Computer Repair. It flourished for awhile in the 1990's, but eventually enrollment dropped off and it closed and the land was sold. I hear there's a Pet's Mart on the location now.

Gess

EANx wrote: »

GI Bill has a number of benefits and restrictions. GI Bill is an awesome way to pay for college / trade school but yes, you do have to join the military to get it. There's a lot of details to gaining / using the GI Bill, more than "if you serve honorably, they will pay off a certain amount" but it will pay for the majority of a four-year college education plus allowance once you qualify. If you're careful with your funds, you won't need to work a job while in college.

I think he was referring to loan repayment incentives that some branches and programs offer. There are other government programs as well, when I joined the military the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania sent me a letter saying they would pay off something like $3,000 of a student loan that I had. Since it was the only student loan that I had and I didn't even now about it when I enlisted I thought that was pretty cool.

GI Bill is awesome, though. I used Tuition Assistance while active in the military to get my undegrad, and used my GI Bill to get a masters and now I'm using it on a law degree.

EANx is right, if you manage your budget you can probably live off of the GI Bill and maybe a summer job while in college. I'm going part time (10cr) and I receive a $1200/mo housing allowance, plus the books stipend. And that's after the tuition is paid for.