Advice appreciated

Chitownjedi

K,

I am running the show. I had a long thread but decided to delete and keep it short a sweet. I am Doing Engineer work without the title. And I mean Engineering work..

I am referred to by my boss and my bosses boss as their Senior Security Engineer, and they have told vendors, other managers and countless others this multiple times, however my title is IT Security Analyst. We have 2 Senior Analyst and they come to me, I have been designated as the unofficial Team lead by all of my teammates, and they've said this to my face.

I've also been told by management that if my direct manager leaves I am the next in line to Manage

The issue, I am being ridden like a mule. Being asked to do way more than everyone else.. and I mean WAAAAY more. Which is fine... but im getting frustrated that I have do projects by myself because no one else on the team has the technical ability to assist, and my manager says (Yeah I'm sorry but you are the only one with the skillset to handle these projects) so I am installing Enterprise Security SIEM, PIM, Threat Intelligence systems, and more with no backup, and basically I am wondering If asking for the title 4 months in as Senior Security Engineer would be fair...

They are calling me one, and I am doing the work as one, but by title and time on the job I am the most junior on the team even though I am treated as a secondary manager most of the time.

kiki162

It depends on their hiring structure, titles, pay scale, etc. They have to have the $$ to put you in that position, and if they don't have that position, then HR needs to create one. The 2 SA probably get paid more then you which would be enough incentive to talk with your manager.

You are probably the one they call on nights and weekends, and don't take the time to crosstrain others in case you are out or on vaca. If they REALLY care about you, then they might work something out. One other thing that you could do that would work in your favor is to ask for training $$ instead. See if they have money to send you to classes so you can get more certs, or go to cool conferences (SANS).

Personally if I were you, I'd have a talk with your manager, and if nothing comes from it, then start looking for a new job. You may get screwed on this, so just be prepared.

scaredoftests

Start sending out resumes..

PJ_Sneakers

kiki162 wrote: »

You are probably the one they call on nights and weekends, and don't take the time to crosstrain others in case you are out or on vaca. If they REALLY care about you, then they might work something out. One other thing that you could do that would work in your favor is to ask for training $$ instead. See if they have money to send you to classes so you can get more certs, or go to cool conferences (SANS).

Yeah, but when you are THE MAN, you don't get to go to training. Everyone else does. Because they think THE MAN already knows that stuff, and THE MAN can't go because THE MAN is running the ship.

lol

Verities

kiki162 wrote: »

Personally if I were you, I'd have a talk with your manager, and if nothing comes from it, then start looking for a new job.

@kiki162: Great answer right there.

@Chitown: I've seen it many times over, where a performer gets taken advantage of and gets run into the ground. However, in this situation the ball is in your court because you are a huge single point of failure; if you leave, they're going to experience a lot of pain. You have to advocate for yourself in IT, especially if you don't have someone doing that for you. Tell them what you need and why you need it, if they say no then go somewhere else where you will be compensated for your efforts.

Good luck and keep us updated.

cyberguypr

The case really built itself here. The fact that they call you Senior Security Engineer is icing on the cake. I agree with taking to your manager before anything else. A very professional, fact-based conversation regarding roles and career development should happen at least annually. To me the biggest factor here is that you are absorbing the load of the high-impact projects while others seem to be cruising. That is fine for them, but you need to be recognized as a more experienced employee. Either you get a new title, better compensation, or something. Just make sure you know what is it that you expect and be ready to verbalize it eloquently.

Prepare your case. Present the facts. Get job description for roles with duties similar to your. Even better if you can find salary data. Provide details on the outcome you expect, and then wait for their answer. Evaluate your options only after this happens. Security is pretty hot in Chicagoland so it's definitely on their best interest to work with you.

GSXR750K2

This is the business equivalent to alchemy.

It sounds like they are quite content getting a whole lot of bang for what they are paying you, and that they have come to expect that high level of performance as a norm. Have you brought this up to them? If your company offers to pay for training, maybe bring up some management-level seminar or certification as "preparation" to when they move you to management. If they're going to talk about promoting you and whatnot, make them talk about it. Their reaction will indicate what the wizard is going behind the curtain.

Ultimately, it comes down cost and benefit on both sides. They are getting a ton of benefit for whatever your pay costs them, but your tremendous effort is costing you in terms of satisfaction/fulfillment and you aren't reaping any additional benefits from the extra...aside from being called "Engineer" in conversation only.

Chitownjedi

The training here is great, they toss it around to everyone even the person on my team that doesn't know what group policy is. They offer training for all the tools we use, however they have lately been getting crazy with it, stating that they want me to get 0365 certified so I can know the product for when we use it, even though we we have an entire group dedicated to infrastructure and products like that..... and I am like "Why should we waste 4k on training for 0365 when I can be doing, GIAC, or CISSP, or something a lot more helpful.) But they want us to get training on anything that's a buzzword, and often our priority of what we were suppose to focus on changes every month.

My CSO is coming up with some new zany thing we need to get training in every week and some of it is beyond our scope and seems to be just so we have someone in these meetings representing his territory versus actually improving our posture. But that's just his political nature. I will talk to my Manager definitely.

I am being asked to be the SME in all the tools we have and train, create policies and procedures and get certified if the tool provides it... but again my only issue is we have people who get away just breathing air and keeping their role, and i am up during all hours trying to keep us ahead of everything. and my only reward is more projects, and no one holding the others accountable.

So we will see.

mbarrett

If you feel like they aren't respecting you enough (financially, titles, benefits etc.) then YOU need to get that across to them. Put the ball in their court. If you feel like they need to do X to make things on the level, then tell them. Give them an opportunity to give you the things you need. And start looking for another job that will give you the title/compensation you deserve. It's just business. If they are not able to provide a path of professional growth based on where you have developed at this point TODAY in your career (not 6 months or a year ago, or two years) then maybe it's time to move on, unless there is some kind of long term potential with this company.
On the other hand if you can't tear yourself away from that job, stop doing things outside of your job description. If they start coming at you with things they want you to do that are above & beyond, then it's time to negotiate.

PJ_Sneakers

Man I must just work at a really crappy place.

EANx

mbarrett wrote: »

If you feel like they aren't respecting you enough (financially, titles, benefits etc.) then YOU need to get that across to them. Put the ball in their court. If you feel like they need to do X to make things on the level, then tell them. Give them an opportunity to give you the things you need. And start looking for another job that will give you the title/compensation you deserve. It's just business.

This is a good way if you are on good terms with management and have leverage. Otherwise, doing this risks annoying the boss to the point where you get nothing. IMO, the best negotiating tactic is to find out what that person values most. Some people are very title drives, others, money, others training, etc. Now figure out what drives you. If the to don't clash, carefully claim that you don't want what the other person values the most but grab everything else you can in return. They feel like a winner because thy got what they wanted, you to stay and they didn't have to give up their big thing. You win because you got what you wanted and everything else.

Chitownjedi

Well, they said that that they agree that the IT Security Analyst title was a mistake. At the time I was okay having it as I was getting into Security and was just happy to be in the door. But it quickly ramped up to my experience level and my manager stated that I am his Lead Engineer and definitely a Senior Security Engineer and they will change that as it must have been left on the paper work do to him rushing and it was an oversight.

The title wasn't a big deal to me until we started looking to fill an empty seat on our team and they were going to come in as senior to me on paper but I would have been leading them. There is a point where being too chill with everything can cost you, and i'm more so looking to make sure that when I relocate I don't have to play ticky tack games with titles with whoever I interview with because I've been burned in the past by staffing agencies who have held promotions against me because I didn't retain the lower title when I was promoted... there for saying oh they wanted someone with 4 years of Desktop Support, but you have 2 and were promoted, so yeah you don't qualify..... might as well get that cleared away now.

TrailRunr

The only good thing about your situation is that they just hired someone who is senior to you on paper who you could offload work to. But this is probably a no-win situation due to the dysfunctional management. Definitely talk to your manager and gently requesting more $$$, training you actually want, etc. Don't take a title upgrade with no significant upgrade in money. Otherwise, they are just plain taking advantage of you and will continue to do so in the long term. At the same time, you should look for a new job today as seriously as someone who is unemployed. Of these two tasks, I would prioritize looking for a new gig as most urgent. Remember, promises are cheap and worthless so don't start feeling good after the meeting until they deliver the goods.

The most efficient way to upgrade your title and salary is to keep changing jobs until you are at senior level, which is when this trick stops working. Asking your boss for a promotion and raise is far less efficient. Even more so in a dysfunctional situation like yours. It's time to move on even if things are going well. And they're not.