I think I uncovered something - could this be a subtle form of age discrimination?

fmitawaps

I was on another forum, in an IT topic, and someone mentioned the idea of when a temp agency asks for the month and day of your birth and the last 4 of your SSN, that is enough info to determine your age.

***EDIT CORRECTED. MONTH AND DAY, not month and year as in what the 4 posts below this one are responding to***

And therefore, age discriminate against you for hiring.

Possible? It might explain partially why I have had such a hell of a time getting jobs I am VERY qualified for this year.

They went on to say they give a DOB that implies they are 25, and 0000 for the last 4 of the SSN. Not sure if that makes sense, because agencies ask for month and day only, but this got me thinking.

I'm not OLD old, but I am not a "fresh faced, mindless, ready to take on the world" naïve 22 year old college graduate either. I have enough years of life experience that employers aren't going to intimidate me like they would a 20-something.

I'm past the prime hiring age, let's put it that way. I look younger than I am, and have been told this from many people, so once again, as I have stated in other forum posts, telling the truth is not in my best interests.

I just checked my resume. I had removed my college graduation date some time ago, so I am ok there. Nothing on the resume can show my age.

joelsfood

Well, that is how ages and years work. I'm not sure what the revelation is here, unless you just had a REALLY bad education ages ago when you were young.

NetworkNewb

I think you would have a he77 of a time proving that to anyone. I like applying straight to companies rather than using recruiters anyways.

TechGromit

fmitawaps wrote: »

I was on another forum, in an IT topic, and someone mentioned the idea of when a temp agency asks for the month and year of your birth and the last 4 of your SSN, that is enough info to determine your age.

Yea, I pretty sure you can calculate your current age with just your birth date, the current date and applying something known as arithmetic. SSN not needed. The purpose of asking for your last 4 digits of your SSN is they can figure out what your full SSN number is with birth date information and a place of birth.

devilbones

I have never had anyone ask for my age, ever. I am not young but I act immature.

fmitawaps

Month and DAY, that is what I meant to say, not month and year. Will go back and correct initial post. I've been asked for the month and day of my birthday many times.

PJ_Sneakers

Asking for a birth month and day doesn't mean they are asking for your age. It means they are asking for information that they can use to identify you.

Then they can figure out your age later. But they never asked for your age or birth date!

lol

fmitawaps

Well of COURSE they won't come right out and ask for your age, that would violate laws right there....

aftereffector

Month and day of birthday and the last four of your SSN creates a very unique identifying number that can be used to track your application. It's very unlikely to collide with anyone else's number, and it helps the recruiter to be able to see if you already exist in their database. It's also an invasion of privacy, a lazy system, and biased towards the recruiter (it doesn't help you at all), but that's why they do it.

TechnicalJay

Do you have any work experience as a desktop/network/system admin etc?

TheFORCE

I've completed plenty of job applications, and have never provided them with ssn information. Recruiters don't need go know that information. Only give SsN for the final background check.

DPG

There is a well-known algorithm known as DUAL (discover user age link) that can calculate someone's age by only using the birth day and month along with the last four of their social security number.

scaredoftests

I think you are trying to find a conspiracy where there is none. If you don't want that type of information out there (esp with a temp agency) don't give it to the,. I NEVER give my SSN information out anyway.

joelsfood

It is possible to have too MUCH experience. Might that be happening rather than any age discrimination, fmitawaps?

scaredoftests

I interviewed for a position at a army base (desktop support), did not get the job. I accepted a position as a jr. sys admin/dba a month later at a different part of the base. There was a conference nearby and my co-workers and I attended. The person who interviewed me was there, was glad I got the position I did and said he liked me at the interview, but I was over-qualified.

kiki162

They can take your SSN and determine what state you were born in.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v45n11/v45n11p29.pdf

cyberguypr

What would they gain by knowing state of birth? Geographical discrimination?

scaredoftests

I hate Idaho because of the potatoes. No job for you!

stryder144

kiki162 wrote: »

They can take your SSN and determine what state you were born in.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v45n11/v45n11p29.pdf

When I was young we didn't need to get SSNs when we were born. So, my SSN doesn't show state of birth but state of issue as we had moved away from the state I was born in before having it issued. All of my kids have SSNs from either NY (overseas births) or the states they were born in. Definitely causes its fair share of interesting discussions.

AverageJoe

Your last 4 are just sequential numbers autoincremented when issued. For example, my 2 siblings and I were all issued SSNs at the same time, but the numbers were not issued in order of age... my younger sibling has XXX6, I have XXX7, and my youngest sibling is XXX8. Just the lucky draw of what order the applications were done. For us the first 8 digits are all identical, so for what you say to be true, you'd be able to tell our ages by knowing just the last digit and our birth month and day...

Even if they could cross check that against people they know the age of AND the SSN of to get an idea of how old you are compared to people with similar SSNs, they'd have to have a collection of SSNs for every year and every state to compare against since the first 3 digits identify the state your SSN was issued in (if you got it before 1973) or the state you lived in when it was issued (if you got your SSN since 1973). Maybe not impossible to make a guess if they have your birth location, but not very likely and often it would be inaccurate since a lot of people did not get their SSN in their birth state.

Without that kind of cross checking, I can't see how age could be determined based on this data.

Just my 2 cents.
Joe

GreaterNinja

The problem I see with giving DOB MM/DD or MM/DD/YY or even last 4 of social is that it can be used to profile individuals and potentially steal their identity. This information is most likely being put in databases to compile information.

You gotta ask yourself: Do you want to share this information with people in India or wherever with fake names such as Paul, Steve, Bill, etc.?

I'm not saying that all recruiters and firms are bad, but there are some bad ones out there. Posing as a recruiter is a great way to phish information. I've had recruiters run credit reports without my consent. What's next? A credit line being opened under my name? Bottom line is they don't really need a Real DOB and last four of SSN for an application unless you are actually being hired on.

Iristheangel

I wouldn't be overly concerned about your age. If you have any sort of social media, can be googled, have a picture on a family member's FB with a similar name, own property, or have been profiled by a many NUMBER of sites (Spokeo, Intelius, etc), your age is already out there and a very very very short google search away. On top of that, they're probably going to get an idea of your age if you walk into an interview.

Trying to hide your age won't make discrimination go away if it's present with an employer and would you REALLY want to be hired by folks like that anyways? It sucks that it's out there and I'm 100% against it if it happens but if they're determined to discriminate against a certain group of folks, it's going to happen whether you tell them your birthday or not. If you think your age is private and you're applying with your real name, I would recommend googling yourself and looking yourself up on Spokeo, Intelius, and other like sites.

Danielm7

Iris is dead on, that information is so easy to find now it's crazy. I've done those searches, unless your name is John Smith and you don't include an address they can still find out a lot of info.

OctalDump

Iristheangel wrote: »

Trying to hide your age won't make discrimination go away if it's present with an employer

Yep. Discrimination is pretty insidious. It mightn't even be conscious on the part of the person hiring. There's been double blind tests of various kinds that have shown all sorts of odd things that affect your hireablility, like height, weight, accent etc, along with the usual age/sex/race/sexual orientation.

People can guess at your age (and other things) even from your voice on a phone call. It's also possible to predict someone's gender from a sample of writing, although possibly a resume wouldn't have the necessary features to make that guess. Once you are in front of them doing an interview, all those subtle (or not so subtle) biases will come into play.

I'm not sure what you can really do about it, except by drawing the interviewers' attention to objective reasons why you are a good hire.