Need salary negotiation advice

Kalabaster

Serious question, how can I tactfully answer a recruiter/hiring manager's question regarding my salary expectations with 2 things in mind.

1) I am hesitant to give my current salary because I know certain positions simply can't pay my current rate but I still want to do it for any of a slew of reasons (remote position, excellent well-known company, education benefits, or other intangibles)

2) I don't want to straight out just give my minimum requirement because it might significantly weaken my position in salary negotiations unnecessarily.

Lexluethar

I've always said the same thing when asked by recruiters and potential employers, I make X amount now and I would hope to make around the same amount but I look at the whole package opposed to just salary. If i can shave 20 minutes off my drive I wouldn't mind making 10k less, or if they have a great benefits package for 401k or time off i would take a pay cut. The reverse is true too, my current company has a kick ass 401k plan so if where i was moving to didn't, i would need to be compensated justly for that.

I've always told them exactly that, it's the whole package. Look at all of the factors important to you now and try to monetize it. For me it's pay, retirement, PTO, flexibility (IE taking off early if i need to pickup my son), hours outside of 9 to 5 i have to work and commute. Some things are more important to other people, like if you didn't have kids you probably could care less if you had a good health plan b/c you are doing something 'free' or for a few dozen bucks a month.

anhtran35

I would tell them that I make 10k more than I currently make. Either they will match the offer or provide 5k more. Otherwise, they will state that the position does not pay over above your current salary.

636-555-3226

1 - lie about current (don't make it unbelievably high)

2 - tell them what you want to make and say, this is my price, if you want me, this is what it's going to take.

grain of salt - i work in infosec, so i can set a "hard" #2. your mileage may vary.....

networker050184

I'd just be honest about number one. Plenty people take less to get on with the big names or companies with nice perks like working from home.

Number two I never give a minimum or maximum, just a ball park figure that depends on a lot of factors.

dave330i

636-555-3226 wrote: »

1 - lie about current (don't make it unbelievably high)

Wonderful way to start a new relationship.

TranceSoulBrother

dave330i wrote: »

Wonderful way to start a new relationship.

Let's not believe this world is perfect and everything is a fairy tale. The employer will similarly look out for their own benefit when given a chance.
Don't be duplicitous but also one should not be naive.

dave330i

TranceSoulBrother wrote: »

Let's not believe this world is perfect and everything is a fairy tale. The employer will similarly look out for their own benefit when given a chance.
Don't be duplicitous but also one should not be naive.

So you don't consider lying duplicitous? Interesting.

Kalabaster

Ok, tempers aside, that wasn't what I was asking. My issue is that when I don't want to give out the first number they push for my current/last salary, which I'd normally give but I make notably higher than the places I'm currently looking at, which often results in me having to do a bit of damage control to not scare off these hiring manager.

Basically, trying to be a little to medium fish in a big very high speed pond I know will require me to likely take a significant paycut, particularly if it's for a remote job. So, the issue isn't me trying to get a bigger paycheck, but to acknowledge that I am and know I can get paid x amount, but am willing to make y less money for the right place. Where y is elastic, but ideally I want to minimize this elasticity.

It tends to be difficult for me to give a ballpark because they will use that for the offer regardless of the other factors, many of which don't get discussed until after the interview process is over. Also, I don't want that ballpark figure to be too high and push them off, or too low and lock me into a lower salary.

Ideally, I'd like to either completely sidestep that question or give a neutral, satisfactory response that doesn't affect me in salary negotiations and and defers the discussion to a later date, tactfully and effectively.

Legacy User

The only issue when making up a value for your own current salary some employers do check that stuff.

In my experience I found if you bring the skills and experience they will pay market value to get you in the door. So if you look and sound good they will offer you want you want even though its substantially higher. Because the reality is there is a need to fill that position with the qualified person. But if the place says "oh I can't give you that kind of raise based on your current salary" You already know the kind of douchebaggery (is that a word?) goes on at that place and you're better off not working there.

To add:
Do research of market value in your area and see where you should be and base your asking* salary off of that.

Kalabaster

Yeah, I'm aware of that. My problem is the opposite. I don't want to give the first number because first off, it's generally not a good idea, and secondly it's hard to pin an appropriate salary level for a remote position or consultancy. What I normally lean on in negotiations is to tell them what i make and note that I'd need a significant bump to make a move make sense.

However, not when I tell them my salary, it scares some of these guys off. I know that I'd be getting a pay cut to join them, and am willing to do so. I also want to minimize said pay cut.

Maybe it works to put more clarity on my situation. I got a spot as a big(ish) fish in a little pond, but I'm not learning jack and want to join a team that works on actively improving themselves and are actually all good at the job. Doing so, I know I'd have to take a pay cut, because although I'm a "senior" in my current environment, in good big team I'd be at the intermediate level. Which generally won't pay the salary I make, and that is fine with me.

iBrokeIT

Kalabaster wrote: »

My issue is that when I don't want to give out the first number they push for my current/last salary, which I'd normally give but I make notably higher than the places I'm currently looking at, which often results in me having to do a bit of damage control to not scare off these hiring manager.

"My previous salary was based on my previous experience, skills and job description. This is a new and separate negotiation so my previous salary is irrelevant."

Are you willing to walk if you are required to give your previous salary? That's what it basically boils down to, who has the most leverage. You can say the above quote all day but if you aren't willing to lose the opportunity due to not revealing you previous salary then you have to play their game and give it up.

Kalabaster

iBrokeIT wrote: »

"My previous salary was based on my previous experience, skills and job description. This is a new and separate negotiation so my previous salary is irrelevant."

Are you willing to walk if you are required to give your previous salary? That's what it basically boils down to, who has the most leverage. You can say the above quote all day but if you aren't willing to lose the opportunity due to not revealing you previous salary then you have to play their game and give it up.

The thing is I don't have an issue with giving my salary, my issue is how it can sometimes change the tone of the negotiations. It adds tension as they start wondering why I am willing to take a pay cut for a similar position and makes them question things. Thing is I can get a good salary most places, but I don't want most places. I'm being selective regarding who I want to work for now, and the environment I want to be in. This means pay cut, and that just doesn't make sense to recruiters and hiring managers enough to make them not make things at least a little awkward. This is why I'm stressing the need for a tactful way to approach things.

Matt2

You could go straight into it stating you are interested in a range of X depending on benefits. And that it will be lower than your current pay (which you'll not disclose), but that it's the company and role and work environment etc that's more important to you than the pay. Seems fairly straightforward, a perhaps slightly better than saying I make Y but will take X lower.

TechGromit

iBrokeIT wrote: »

Are you willing to walk if you are required to give your previous salary? That's what it basically boils down to, who has the most leverage. You can say the above quote all day but if you aren't willing to lose the opportunity due to not revealing you previous salary then you have to play their game and give it up.

This is why looking for a job while your still employed gives you the most leverage, they know you can turn down there offer much more easily. When your unemployed, have bills to pay and unemployment insurance pays peanuts, you much more likely to accept a lower offer.

EANx

There's a difference between interviewing when you have a job vs when you need a job. If you have a job and would be interested but don't need a new job, I'd say something like "are you asking what I currently make? Or are you asking what it would take to bring me on board."

IronmanX

TechGromit wrote: »

This is why looking for a job while your still employed gives you the most leverage, they know you can turn down there offer much more easily. When your unemployed, have bills to pay and unemployment insurance pays peanuts, you much more likely to accept a lower offer.

It is good leverage if your trying to move up the ladder. However in my opinion if you have reached the top of the ladder or are trying to jump to a new ladder having a job while applying for a new job works against you. Employers start to think what gives why would this person want to leave for the same or less amount of money there must be something wrong with them they must not get along with their current co-workers etc...