Thermal Paste

nama

does applying thermal paste on cpu(s) really necessary?

JDMurray

Thermal joint compound (paste) increases the heat transfer rate between the CPU and the heatsink. Removing as much heat from the CPU as quickly as possible is desirable, so I always use it. Most new CPUs come with the paste pre-applied.

nama

if we apply thermal paste periodically (say every few months) on a CPU, is it going to have any impact?

Webmaster

Yes, if you apply it every few month eventually you'll put so much on it that it will have a negative effect. I only needs to be applied once, unless you replace the cooler.

wildfire

Ive always used one Called Arctic silver, its fairly expensive but a very good thermal paste.

see a review here

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/cooling/arctic_silver5/index_2.shtml

nama

oh, i see.
coz most of my friends don't usually have the habit of applying thermal paste. Thats why I'm curious of whether is it a 'must', even though books teach us to apply.

nama

wildfire wrote:

Ive always used one Called Arctic silver, its fairly expensive but a very good thermal paste.

see a review here

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/cooling/arctic_silver5/index_2.shtml

thats cool, thanks

JDMurray

nama wrote:

if we apply thermal paste periodically (say every few months) on a CPU, is it going to have any impact?

Thermal paste doesn't evaporate or degrade, so unless you replace your heatsink/fan or CPU you'll never need to reapply it. Be sure to wipe off all the old paste off before applying the new.

One tube of paste will probably last you a life-time, so buy a good brand. I'm not sure what the difference is between the white and the silver paste (I use the white). There's probably info about paste at www.tomshardware.com and www.anandtech.com.

TheShadow

If your friends are using factory heat-sinks then they often come with thermal tape which replaces the thermal paste. For a while there was counterfeit paste which was really thermal grease. Unlike paste thermal grease does evaporate and is used for temporary testing such as in assembly factories, motherboard, chip etc. AMD saw it as such a problem that for about two years they voided warranties if thermal tape was not used. I believe they have stopped doing that now that they have full covers on the chips.

Silver paste actually contains powered silver, an excellent conductor of heat. Unfortunately it is also an excellent conductor of electricity causing shorts if improperly applied to older Pentiums and Athlons before both companies went to full covers over the chip die.

supertechCETma

Here is a comparison of several brands and a great tutorial on thermal compounds.

http://www.thetechzone.com/reviews/roundup/thermal_compound/page6.shtml

JDMurray

TheShadow wrote:

Silver paste actually contains powered silver, an excellent conductor of heat. Unfortunately it is also an excellent conductor of electricity causing shorts if improperly applied ...

Ah-hah! The white paste is non-conductive. I'm glad that I never switched to the silver (mainly because I've been using the same tube of thermal joint compound since 1983 ). I'm also glad that I've never run across thermal tape. It sounds like an invention created only to reduce manufacturing costs.

nama

I've been using my system for about a year, which I'd self-assembled but without applying any thermal paste. I wonder if it's too late for me to apply now.

JDMurray

nama wrote:

I've been using my system for about a year, which I'd self-assembled but without applying any thermal paste. I wonder if it's too late for me to apply now.

Well, your computer is still running, so the CPU is still working. It can't hurt to put the paste on now, unless you really screw something up in the process of doing so.

When it comes to helping my CPU run a few C's cooler, I do everything that I can. Just make sure you let the computer cool down first.

nama

will my pc be considered "unsafe" if I don't apply any paste on it? Since it's been working fine for a year without it.

RussS

My last two systems were built without using any thermal paste. They both performed flawlessly for 12-18mths. My current one had the thermal tape on the heatsink so it was installed with it.

nama

RussS wrote:

My last two systems were built without using any thermal paste. They both performed flawlessly for 12-18mths. My current one had the thermal tape on the heatsink so it was installed with it.

so generally will a system be more durable if thermal paste is used on them (as compared to those without it)?

RussS

That is the theory. I know that in past times I have seen many AMD processors that died due to thermal paste overload. Like all things good ... a little goes a long way

OpenSource

I don't mean to sound like I'm being rude or insulting, so please don't take anything I say the wrong way...

My comments:

First, I find this thread amusing. You're all basically certificated PC technicians and some of you're posted answers are honestly funny. Just amazing how much you didn't know about the subject, I guess...

Second, I have alot of experience with overclocking and a crucial part of overclocking is of course cooling, another topic I am very familiar with. I have experience with air cooling, water-cooling, and even thermo-electic cooling (TEC). I also have mild experience with basic thermaldynamics.

Third, you all really need to be careful what you use or buy when it comes to thermal compound. You need to ensure you use the proper compound for the particular application. In addition, you want to use thermal compound from a reputable vendor (such as ArcticSilver found here http://www.arcticsilver.com ).

Fourth, the "white" stuff is usually either adheasive (Arctic Alumina, for example) or what is known as Ceramique (ceramic based). Adheasive is meant for smaller heatsinks, such as those that you apply to the RAM chips on a video card. NEVER USED FOR CPU APPLICATIONS. The Ceramique is great for older AMD processors or older Northbridge chipsets, both which have exposed metal surrounding the die, because it's non-conductive.

Fifth, the "gray" stuff is known as Arctic Silver, because it contains actual silver. This is the best compound known and used by nearly every overclocking water-cooling PC enthusiast around. This is generally only used for CPU applications.

Sixth, if you buy a third-party (aftermarket) processor heatsink, it generally does not come with pre-applied thermal compound, meaning you should use Artic Silver or a similar aftermarket compound.

Seventh, if you're using a processor heatsink that comes with pre-applied thermal compound, I usually suggest you use that. But if you don't want to, you can remove it. Also note, YOU CAN ONLY USE THERMAL COMPOUND ONCE. After first use, it has been contaminated and must be removed. To remove thermal compound, use lint free towels and Isopropyl alcohol or use ArctiClean from the same company as ArcticSilver. NEVER use ANYTHING else!

Eigth, when applying any form of thermal compound, the smaller the better. What you want is to apply it use a thin credit card or similar plastic. Apply a THIN and EVEN compound across the surface of the particular chip. You want it to be THIN and cover the ENTIRE chip. DO NOT use your finger, you will contaminate the compound. To remove the compound, refer to the statement above.

Ninth, the reason for thermal compound is because chips and heatsinks are not entirely level and have micro-scoptic "holes" in their surface. The thermal compound fills these "holes" and therefore increased heat transfer from chip to heatsink. The more efficient heat transfer will result in lower temperatures which will increase the life of a chip.

Tenth, I forgot to add. You want to use thermal tape ONLY with smaller heatsinks, such as those you apply to RAM chips on video cards. In fact, most such heatsinks these days come with pre-applied one time use thermal tape. NEVER use thermal tape for CPU APPLICATIONS.

That about covers it. If you have any questions, post them an I will answer them.

- Joey

TheShadow

Uhh Opensource, one advantage that I have of being older than most here is I try never to find serious posts humorous and I try not to be condescending. Also one thng that I learned having access to the internet before most was that you never know the qualifications of people on the other end of a post. Some of your info is good and some is misleading. For example the gray stuff just might NOT be artic silver. Artic is a fine company but a fairly new one. The real major producer of heat sink compounds is Dow Corning and anyone possessing a 1983 tube of compound exceeds Artics entry. In the 80's you would have been hard pressed to find a compound made by other than Dow which would be an 800 pound gorilla compared to Artic. Picking out a brand by color is dangerous advice as Dow 340 series has been around longer than many members here have been on the planet. I point you specifically to the following Dow link for series 340 which contains a wealth of information and tutorials.

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/Product_Finder/PF_details.asp?l1=009&prod=01015443&type=PROD&pg=00001122

I believe that you will find their adhesives are gray and their pastes are white or the opposite of your statements.

A second path to their other lines of thermal products including adhesives and tapes can be researched off of this link.

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/product_finder/pf_main.asp?L1=009&L2=00000021&L3=&L4=&L5=&PG=00001122&Country=USA&req=


As to tape that is my error since there is now an adhesive material that is being called thermal tape used mostly on RAMS. What used to be called thermal tape in the trade is now properly referred to as PCM or "Phase Change Material" which basically means it melts with heat to increase heat conductive properties. PCM is used with processors


Not meaning to be rude, funny or condescending.

Cheers, have a smile on me
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TheShadow

Oh here is another link from the AMD website I have it on a catalog CD but that is not easy to come by. This is AMD recommended guides for heatsink installation. Please note that socket A installations are different form newer family members.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_9342,00.html

for the newest family members sempron A64 etc you will find some nice videos here.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_9460^6678,00.html

unfortunately the socket A videos seem to be no more.

Plantwiz

OpenSource, I agree with TheShadow. While you did take the time to explain a long laundry list of things to consider, there are some things regarding paste color/adhesive color that are not correct. So, thanks for taking the time to list many of them out. In the future, please consider that many people here are very experienced, and while the may not have posted every possible field option, they were merely trying to answer teh immediate question.

Joining the discussion late, nama,
-As it has been stated, You may had a paste if you desire, provided your CPU/Heatsink did NOT contain one initally.

-I've never seen a reason to replace the MFG's thermalpaste, but then again I do not overclock.

-You get what you pay for. Quality is likely more expensive, but worth it in the long run.

-ArticSilver is the brand that I most commonly use, but take care not to touch the 'silver' with your hands as it can be absorbed by your skin. Follow their instructions and if concerned ask for the MSDS sheet on the material.

-Due to pores between the CPU and the Heatsink, the thermal paste was intented to make the contact between the two more exact and make heat tranfer more efficient be elivating the small gaps.

-I do wonder why if you have a CPU that has been running error free for 1.5yrs why risk disturbing that at this point? Certainly, you could make things better, but how much more life are you expecting from your system? AND since you haven't had a problem, are you certain there isn't something already inplace?

-As mentioned ADHESIVE is NOT for CPUs.

-As mentioned if you do have paste already in place and you remove your Heatsink (HS), it is recommended to clean the old off and reapply. You would not want to risk a particle, dust, etc.. being trapped between the HS and CPU hindering the heat exchange and possible buidling heat.

-USE SPARINGLY. MORE IS NOT BETTER

The others have listed some great sites as resources for you. Please do ask questions such as you have been doing on this site recently when you 'think' you want to try something the first time. I've seen a number of people who 'follow' the crowd without every finding out 'why' Some 'techs' do stupid things and convince others to follow. So, ask if things apply to your situation before proceeding. We'll help you out as best we can, but without being with you and your system, can only answer based on the info presented!

JDMurray

So, you are saying that should probably throw away my circa 1983 tube of white thermal joint compound and buy the silver stuff? It'd be like saying good-bye to an old friend.

Plantwiz

Oh, you can keep it Just won't use it on the newer CPUs.

JDMurray

Plantwiz wrote:

Oh, you can keep it Just won't use it on the newer CPUs.

Too late there. I upgraded my P4-2.8GHz to a P4-3.2GHz a few months ago using the good 'ole white stuff and my CPU temp is averaging 42C with no OCing.

Plantwiz

That might be some 'secret' stuff
Really 20 years and it hasn't dried out! That is pretty good.

Did you list the brand?

OpenSource

Good information posted by "TheShadow" and "PlantWiz", but I should mention the only reason I used terms like "white stuff" and "gray stuff", is in response to the posts above mine. I should have probably mentioned there are many companies out there producing all sorts of different thermal compounds, but my earlier post refers strictly to Arctic Silver and their products. In addition, NEVER use a thermal compound based strictly on it's color, as "TheShadow" and "PlantWiz" have more then explained.

- Joey

TheShadow

My tube of dow corning was purchased in 74, and still seems to work well. At least the temps are low on the CPU's that I have used it on. I was doing some moon lighting designs with triacs for what would eventually become disco lights or color organs as they were called then. I bought to big of a tube and have had it ever since.