What if it really is just about the money? Counter offer dilemma

Mountain William

So, I have been with the current company for about 6.5 years, and currently on the 3rd role/position with the company. Our headquarters is 3 hours away, so I typically drive up on Monday morning and do Mon-Wed in the office and Thurs-Fri remote. I really like what I am doing (Threat Intelligence), and the company has always treated me well. Although, I am not actively looking for a new position, I keep my information up to date on Linked In. I feel I owe it to the family to look at opportunities as they present them selves. Plus, I like to keep my interviewing skills fairly fresh.

So, a couple or three months ago, a recruiter contacted me about an Information Security Manager role. After the 2nd interview, I reached out to my old boss who now works at the 2nd company, regarding the company, and the hiring manager. He told me about a position he had on his team (Compliance, which is what I did for him). He told me the range he was looking at for the position ( about a 30-35% increase). I interviewed and accepted the position. This company is in the same area as current company, I would do the same work arrangement (3/2 split) as current company for 90 days and then be 100% remote

Gave notice to my boss( CSO direct) and the same day I had a conversation with our CSO, they countered with matching salary and 100% remote. I was going to go back to doing something I dont like as much as what I do currently just because it was about 25-30K more a year and eventually full remote.

When I actually look at current company now, it is actually more money within 60 days (annual review). I wouldnt be eliglble for bonus with new company until 2018. With current company, it will hit in 1st quarter (15-25K range). Old company is 5 weeks PTO vs 3weeks at new ( 4 after 1st year). I am currently working on my degree at WGU, current company pays 100% up to 5250 a year, new company pays 75% up to 3000/year after 6 months, so I would not be reimbursed for this semester by new company.

I have built our Threat Intelligence program from the ground and we are now a team of 3 plus director, but we are really maturing the program over the next couple of years. I can do the compliance stuff but my heart is really in Intelligence. Current CSO has told me more than once that for some one without formal Intelligence training (his background) I am amazing at what I do that I am a natural at it.

The only downside to rescinding my acceptance is my old boss, who I had remained friends with in the 3 years or so he has been gone, I would hate to burn the bridge with him but it may have to happen

So, if it truly is just about the money, is it ok to accept the counter?

goatama

But it's not truly all about the money, is it? I mean you're going from having to be there three days a week, away from family (maybe?), to 100% remote. It also sounds like there are a lot more perks to staying where you are when you add in the extra PTO, the bonus, the tuition reimbursement, etc. I mean I know there are lots of people here who say never, EVER take the counter, but in this case I'm not sure they'd be correct.

atippett

My 2 cents - first off I am not close to being at your level, just to get that out there. But, I feel like when people say "don't take a counter offer", they're assuming that the person is out LOOKING for a job because they don't like their current job. In this case, you wasn't looking it just came your way, and you're happy at your job. If it was me, I would take the counter. Like you said, you built your department from the ground up, more tuition reimbursement than the new company, more PTO than the new company, 100% remote now. Counter offer is better to me.

Mike-Mike

i also would all about the money. that being said, if you feel like you are going to burn a bridge, i would think your current company would need to beat, not just match, your offer

NOC-Ninja

I took the counter offer on mine. I based it in my pay. Is it all about the money? YES

This is up to you. Do you like your team and boss? The only problem with me was money. They countered and it worked well. So far im still here and getting paid well. Also, they are paying for my masters. Remember, moving jobs means more stress. The pay has to be good for you to take more stress.


I dont believe in the theory of "they will lay you off when its time". That works depending on the situation. Just make sure you have education, certs and skills and you will almost be untouchable.


After I took the counter, my boss apologized to me and said sorry it had to go this way before we give you a bump.
I will ask for more money once my masters is completed in 2-3months.


Ask the other company if they want to counter. See how that works.
Have you included the insurance and 401k? So far, it seems that your old job has the better offer.
I would tell them 10k more and you'll stay.

hurricane1091

My boss took a counter once, and he said it sucked because the company now owns you and he would never do it again. HOWEVER, he ASKED for my money, and presented his case, and they said no. He told them he would find another job, which he did, and they offered him much more. He put in his two weeks, and they countered and matched so he stayed. It is a different situation when it goes down in my boss's case I do believe. In your case, it sounds okay to take it.

I feel like if I found another job, my job would counter - and I'd honestly take it. I haven't asked for a raise yet though,

Mountain William

Mike-Mike wrote: »

i also would all about the money. that being said, if you feel like you are going to burn a bridge, i would think your current company would need to beat, not just match, your offer

I kind of feel like they are... they are matching the base pay, plus I will get 3300 tuition reimbursement in Jan, and then a bonus that will be in the 15-25,000 range in early March and a 3-4% merit increase in April. The new company is base with no increase until 2018. So current employer is really matching plus an additional 20-27K over the next year

my only benefit in taking the new gig would be working for a great boss but walking away from 20-27K.

It was about being 100% remote and the significant increase, my current company addressed both those issues ( I had never brought either to the current company's attention before this... shame on me lol )

gespenstern

Yeah, it's different, there's no set in stone rule that is always valid like "never accept counters".

I accepted once in my career and it played out well.

So most here depends on the situation.

And yeah, I know some people like different things but for me it's 99% money. Everything else barely matters.

For you, obviously, it's different as your commute is 6 hours a day, this is significant. So 100% remote and counter sounds like a deal. Unless there are hidden factors here.

It may worth investigating your current company history quickly. Do some threat intelligence, you know. Catch an HR person, handcuffs, basement. Use your imagination here. Interrogate them on all the cases of counteroffers accepted and what happened to all these people. Kidding, of course, but you get the idea.

MitM

If you're truly happy working where you are working, then accept the counter offer

TechGromit

All things considered, if you enjoy where your working, I'd stay. Stick with the devil you know. There are no advantages I can see taking the new job.

jabney

Accept the counter. More more and less stress AND 100% remote.

powerfool

The conventional wisdom is to never accept a counter offer. You don't know if you have poisoned the well. They could be already be planning for your departure, either through their decision or your own. This IS the real risk with accepting a counter offer.

That being said, I have accepted a counter offer once under similar conditions. I accepted the original offer because of the money, though I wasn't really as interested in that type of work (and it was remote work). I eventually took the counter offer because I liked what I was doing and they matched (overall it was still better money even though it was a match because of all of the other benefits).

I would likely never accept a counter offer again. I think it is a huge gamble and I beat the house once... I am out while I am ahead.

powerfool

gespenstern wrote: »

And yeah, I know some people like different things but for me it's 99% money. Everything else barely matters.

Yep, I find people highly suspect in their judgement if they say it isn't "all" about the money. Sure, there are other factors, but if you pick an industry for your career, there is usually enough of the "enjoy the work" aspect that you can always find more money with time and additional skills/experience. I do consider other aspects of the job, but they all come back to having some monetary value.

-Paid time off: assuming you get to use it, the more paid time off you get, the more each hour of work is worth
-Remote: less commute time... commute time is like the opposite of paid time off... it is like unpaid time on... it subtracts from the value of the time you work. So, remote eliminates that.
-Flexibility: if I don't have to eat up PTO because I can shift my work, then that is also great... why burn up PTO for small things that aren't "desirable" like doctors appointments, and the like?
-Insurance: I depend on these things, so getting good insurance that is more subsidized is better than the alternative.
-Training/tuition reimbursement: improving yourself costs you... if they cover it, you don't, plus it gets you ready for the next raise. Also, if they give you time for training, even better.
-Retirement matching contributions: it is extra money on top of what you make. Plus, if you are maxing out your contributions, the employer match is on top of that (separate maximum)
-Stock purchase: if it is a stable-to-improving stock, this is a no-brainer, if you get a discount and can sell easily.
-Discounts: I buy stuff either for necessity or want... if I can get it cheaper, great.
-Bonus: if it is attainable, the more the better. I find this to be the biggest motivator/de-motivator out there.
-Reimbursements: cell phone, internet, gym, whatever... things I have to use... pay me for them.

Bottom line, however, is increasing your base salary (if non-commission) should always have a little more weight than the other factors. It impacts many of these factors. A higher base salary:

-Makes percentage based raises more, X% raise is more for Y+10 than just for Y.
-Makes percentage based retirement matching contributions higher
-Makes your paid time off more valuable
-Makes life insurance more valuable (if done as a multiplier of salary)

I have an undetermined finite amount of time in my life... and I am trading that time for money. I had better get every cent possible. It is all about the money, else you don't value your time, and hence yourself. And, if you can't value yourself, you can't be expected to value others, either.

ArabianKnight

powerfool wrote: »

Yep, I find people highly suspect in their judgement if they say it isn't "all" about the money. Sure, there are other factors, but if you pick an industry for your career, there is usually enough of the "enjoy the work" aspect that you can always find more money with time and additional skills/experience. I do consider other aspects of the job, but they all come back to having some monetary value.

-Paid time off: assuming you get to use it, the more paid time off you get, the more each hour of work is worth
-Remote: less commute time... commute time is like the opposite of paid time off... it is like unpaid time on... it subtracts from the value of the time you work. So, remote eliminates that.
-Flexibility: if I don't have to eat up PTO because I can shift my work, then that is also great... why burn up PTO for small things that aren't "desirable" like doctors appointments, and the like?
-Insurance: I depend on these things, so getting good insurance that is more subsidized is better than the alternative.
-Training/tuition reimbursement: improving yourself costs you... if they cover it, you don't, plus it gets you ready for the next raise. Also, if they give you time for training, even better.
-Retirement matching contributions: it is extra money on top of what you make. Plus, if you are maxing out your contributions, the employer match is on top of that (separate maximum)
-Stock purchase: if it is a stable-to-improving stock, this is a no-brainer, if you get a discount and can sell easily.
-Discounts: I buy stuff either for necessity or want... if I can get it cheaper, great.
-Bonus: if it is attainable, the more the better. I find this to be the biggest motivator/de-motivator out there.
-Reimbursements: cell phone, internet, gym, whatever... things I have to use... pay me for them.

Bottom line, however, is increasing your base salary (if non-commission) should always have a little more weight than the other factors. It impacts many of these factors. A higher base salary:

-Makes percentage based raises more, X% raise is more for Y+10 than just for Y.
-Makes percentage based retirement matching contributions higher
-Makes your paid time off more valuable
-Makes life insurance more valuable (if done as a multiplier of salary)

I have an undetermined finite amount of time in my life... and I am trading that time for money. I had better get every cent possible. It is all about the money, else you don't value your time, and hence yourself. And, if you can't value yourself, you can't be expected to value others, either.

It is my opinion that given all the non-traditional way of making money now such as online marketing, real estate, drop shipping, e-book publishing, Uber, etc....there are a dozen way or more to have some passive income that employers will have to offer more pay and better benefits to retain and bring on new people. Although this trend is still in the early phases, a few decades from now I believe it will be much more common place.

jeremywatts2005

Well it is not all about the base.... salary that is. Look at the whole package and make a decision. Sometimes the whole package makes the job worth more than the salary suggest. Now onto the counter offer be careful with them. The company knows you are not wanting to stay with them. They may be trying to keep you until they hire someone else and then phase you out the door. Not everything is at it seems all the time. I have seen this happen to folks before, and they get a rocking counter offer. A couple months later Bob the new employee arrives the team has been told they are increasing the staffing. You train Bob and then Bob starts to take on more responsibility while you are relegated to crap duty until you finally quit. Problem solved for the company they got a knowledge **** from you and created no extra work because you were there transitioning Bob. Just be careful on the counter offer situation you know how your company is read the cards and make a call.

PJ_Sneakers

I'm not near six figures, but I'm staying in my current position because I think it will help me get there. I stayed in the beginning because it was decent pay, really fun, and personally rewarding. Now it's about planning the next phase of my life, really.

So yeah. Even though it wasn't about the money at first, eventually it was.

DatabaseHead

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Is it all about the money? YES

It's why I get out of bed in the morning and drag my happy arse into work.

@ OP Agree with most I would most certainly take the counter offer. Your heart is in the work and you are now full remote and are 35% richer.

Well played.