Trumps plans on outsourcing, H1B visas, etc?

BlackBeretBlackBeret Member Posts: 684 ■■■■■□□□□□
Avoiding partisan politics and focusing solely on the effects of the IT industry, http://www.cio.com/article/3147887/careers-staffing/trumps-plan-for-protecting-it-jobs-raises-hopes-fears.html

How are other members of TE in the states viewing this? Good for job security? Bad for costs?

I feel the H1B program has absolutely been abused to bring in lower cost workers in some companies (search Disney replacing employees), but at the same time there are shortages in almost every company I've been in for QUALITY IT workers. Limiting the programs that make it easier to get foreign workers may be detrimental as well.

Comments

  • PC509PC509 CISSP, CEH, CCNA: Security/CyberOps, Sec+, CHFI, A+, Proj+, Server+, MCITP Win7, Vista, MCP Server 2 Oregon, USMember Posts: 802 ■■■■■■□□□□
    I find the abuse and the lack of quality IT workers a big deal with H1B's. There are a few that are brilliant. But, they aren't cheap. They are there to actually fill a spot that was difficult to find a suitable worker locally.

    The H1B program needs work. The abuse needs to stop. From a job description of "10 years experience in Server 2012 required", and they cannot fill that position so they get a cheap H1B to fill it. Or, you have them working for half the wages of a local person. The H1B wants to be here, so they take it.

    End the abuse of the program, and I think the rest of it will settle down. They'll be paid appropriately, so the only factor will be the talent.
  • thomas_thomas_ CompTIA N+/S+/L+ CCNA R&S CCNP R&S/Enterprise/Collab Member Posts: 969 ■■■■■■■□□□
    From my understanding there is already another visa program for exceptional candidates that doesn't have any quota on it. This program is for the top tier, cream of the crop, creme de la creme, etc. individuals in their field. Tightening up the H1B visa program doesn't affect that program.

    Let's face it, are these outsourcing body shops really providing QUALITY IT workers?
  • tmtextmtex Member Posts: 326
    Believe it when I see it. Company I work for uses Wipro. Its terrible, always a problem and takes them forever to fix (Network/DB issues).
  • hurricane1091hurricane1091 Member Posts: 918 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Naturally dislike H1B visas. Read too many horror stories with Americans losing their jobs and having to train incapable replacements. Most companies who use these visas do not hire real talent, they use them to hire cheap labor.
  • OfWolfAndManOfWolfAndMan Member Posts: 923 ■■■■□□□□□□
    They may skew the statistics over the next few years to display a reduction in H1Bs, but cutting it down drastically isn't happening. Companies, regardless of industry, want to "save money" by cutting corners where they shouldn't be. Greed is much of the issue from the higher tiers. There is plenty of overseas talent as well, don't get me wrong. However, it's a tradeoff. Things such as language barriers, different baselines on what is knowledgeable from one country to another, and of course differing cultures in the workforce style between countries. Once these three things are understood, the process becomes a bit easier.
    :study:Reading: Lab Books, Ansible Documentation, Python Cookbook 2018 Goals: More Ansible/Python work for Automation, IPSpace Automation Course [X], Build Jenkins Framework for Network Automation []
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,621 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Correct me if I am wrong, but the H1B's get hammered with taxes which goes into the federal governments pocket. They are turning a profit off of these folks.
  • GSXR750K2GSXR750K2 Member Posts: 325 ■■■■□□□□□□
    PC509 wrote: »
    I find the abuse and the lack of quality IT workers a big deal with H1B's.

    Worked for a global retailer many years back and on one Friday I was dumbfounded to hear someone a few cubicles away (different department) explaining to someone with a considerable accent (not making a big deal of it, just saying it was an apparent H1B deal) how the principles of Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V would save time entering data.

    I had only been there a short while but my colleagues present at the time said it was par for the course.
  • m1xaylom1xaylo Member Posts: 59 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Greed is much of the issue ....

    The root of all evil :D

    Visa holders are sponsored by a company and they are tied by a contract, usually unfavorable for a worker but they are just happy to be in US. They can not leave the company since that would automatically cancel their visa and they would have to go back where they came from. Not to offend anybody here, their work ethic mostly better than their US piers. To top if off, getting H1B visa is not easy process. Company needs to prove that they couldn't find an adequate candidate to fill the position, and that is why they must reach out of the US borders for one.
  • lucky0977lucky0977 Senior Member Member Posts: 218 ■■■■□□□□□□
    m1xaylo wrote: »
    Company needs to prove that they couldn't find an adequate candidate to fill the position, and that is why they must reach out of the US borders for one.

    Translation: US company seeking foreign employee willing to work for $25 hr less than their American counter part.

    Just trying to post some humor
    Bachelor of Science: Computer Science | Hawaii Pacific University
    CISSP | CISM | CISA | CASP | SSCP | Sec+ | Net+ | A+
  • GSXR750K2GSXR750K2 Member Posts: 325 ■■■■□□□□□□
    m1xaylo wrote: »
    To top if off, getting H1B visa is not easy process. Company needs to prove that they couldn't find an adequate candidate to fill the position, and that is why they must reach out of the US borders for one.

    It may not be easy if used properly, but like PC509 said above a company just needs to put ridiculous requirements in the job description that no one can adequately fill, or offer extremely low wages for a position that no one here in the U.S. would realistically take. Then, when they report they can't find anyone for the position they are free to look across the pond(s) for people who they can bring in and pay those low wages (which probably look like a fortune to many in other countries) and train them to do whatever the job actually entails, not what the description stated.

    Hence the abuse.

    When I worked for that retailer the low wage deal was, and probably still is, a common practice. A buddy of mine lived in an apartment complex and I was astonished at how some of the H1B crew lived. They would live four or five to a two-bed apartment, their doors were always open when it was nice out so they wouldn't have to run the HVAC, and folding chairs were the defacto furniture in many of the apartments with open doors. It was really sad to see what they were going through but to them it was great...they were working in America.
    m1xaylo wrote: »
    Not to offend anybody here, their work ethic mostly better than their US peers.

    I agree in many cases. They are grateful for the opportunity and fear that if they mess it up they won't get another, so they bring their A-game in situations where many of us Americans would be complaining, like about having to complete the new TPS report cover sheets. :)
  • m1xaylom1xaylo Member Posts: 59 ■■■□□□□□□□
    GSXR750K2 wrote: »
    I agree in many cases. They are grateful for the opportunity and fear that if they mess it up they won't get another, so they bring their A-game in situations where many of us Americans would be complaining, like about having to complete the new TPS report cover sheets. :)

    And they send TPS sheets to all seven bosses on time every week :D
  • GSXR750K2GSXR750K2 Member Posts: 325 ■■■■□□□□□□
    m1xaylo wrote: »
    And they send TPS sheets to all seven bosses on time every week :D

    The Bobs love hearing about that. :)
  • m1xaylom1xaylo Member Posts: 59 ■■■□□□□□□□
    The Bob's icon_thumright.gificon_thumright.gif them

    Unfortunately, there will always be loopholes in the system and US corporate lawyers are masters in manipulating them. When you are not creating "new value" only way to create profit is to cut expenses, and top floor salaries are always justified :D
  • IristheangelIristheangel CCIEx2 (Sec + DC), CCNP RS, CCNA V/S/R/DC, CISSP, CEH, MCSE 2003, A+/L+/N+/S+, and a lot more from m Pasadena, CAMod Posts: 4,133 Mod
    I'm pretty sure the guy who used the H1-B system that he himself (and his wife) used for his business isn't going to eradicate it or even clip it's wings. I suspect he'll do something small but public to show a perceived win and then really change nothing on the inside - basically doing as politicians do.

    For anyone who saw the show Boss: "The illusion of change on the outside, with continuity on the inside"

    There are laws that require that H1Bs Visa holders are paid market rate and the information for current visa holders is published online: H1B Visa Salary Database 2016 - Employer, Job, or Location
    Another good article: H-1B Visa Holders Earn More Than U.S.-Born IT Professionals, Study Claims | CIO
    A good research study: https://www.brookings.edu/research/h-1b-visas-and-the-stem-shortage/

    There have also been some good studies that show that increasing H1B workers did NOT lower salary levels in the industry overall.

    Like all programs, abuses can happen with ANYTHING and there are some public anecdotal stories that tick me off too (i.e. Disney) but anecdotal stories do not represent a norm and I don't think this is the greatest threat to IT jobs everywhere. I am not under the illusion that all corporations are our friends and want nothing but the best for us but I am also realistic about the IT industry. I think it might be harder for folks here to find jobs based on their location and some may not legitimately meet the minimum skills that the company needs to fill said job. One poster on this forum said that they should train the person to have those skills but to be fair, that's not a company's job or obligation to do. It's nice when they do but the reality is that if someone is looking for a senior Exchange engineer or a senior network architect, it's not their job to find a guy with 2 years of help desk experience and a CCNA and train them up on that - especially if they don't have any current inhouse staff at that skill level to start.

    Honestly, I would focus on the stuff you can control
    - Location - This matters. There's going to be a LOT more jobs in San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, or any major metro area or tech hub. Likewise, places in the middle of nowhere is going to have a much smaller talent pool and less likely to be appealing to folks to move there for a tech role so I could see more employers using/needing H1Bs in these locations for sure.
    - Siloed Skills - Ultimately, it's up to you to keep up to date or not get siloed. For example, I know a guy who's been working at an company for 10+ years and getting paid 6 figures to be a network engineer but he's been dealing with 100% layer 2 for those 10 years. Unfortunately, this gentleman didn't stay on top of his skills or expanded them so when the time came to part ways with the company, he started crashing and burning in interviews because they saw network engineer + 10 years on his resume and he couldn't answer the most basic of Layer 3 questions during a tech interview. Another gentleman I used to work with worked only one network engineer job his entire career and while he knew how to use EIGRP, he never bothered learning OSPF because it was never something he worked with. This is just one of many things he didn't really try to learn. When he decided to part ways with that company, he found that his lack of OSPF and other skills was really hurting his attempts at finding a job. I'm not saying you're going to get a 100K job by studying and no experience but if you find yourself in a comfy job that you plan on being at for awhile or you don't see yourself leaving for sometime, don't get comfortable. You don't know what tomorrow will bring or how your circumstances will change and if you don't invest in your own education, you can't blame the folks who did or the companies that hire them when they're hired over you.
    - Resume - A well written resume is going to help you. That's the first thing people are going to see before you even get your butt in the interview chair. Make sure you keep it up to date. Sometime I've started doing recently is every time I have a big accomplishment or project done, I add it to the list. It makes it easier to have all my big projects and accomplishments written down somewhere to add to the resume or detail in an interview than trying to remember them all on the spot.
    - Your appearance - Most of us probably aren't models by any means or expected to be so but if you're on the hunt for a job or struggling with finding a job, you should be making sure you're bringing your A-game. By that, I mean take out any facial piercings before the interview, make sure your haircut/color is professional, make sure your attire is appropriate for an interview, and that you don't stink (either from lack of washing or using an entire bottle of Axe on yourself - both will kill an employer's enthusiasm to hire you if they have to worry about smelling you in the office). If you're on the mindset that you don't want to work at a company if they can't handle your pink hair, jeans with holes in an interview, or natural manly odors, then fair enough. But don't get mad if they turn you down and hire someone else or if they hire an H1B.
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,621 ■■■■■■■■■□
    They most certainly need to review the program like all programs. It would be naive for ANYONE to think otherwise. All programs needs to be reviewed and improved upon. That's just how it works......

    I read the link Iris provided by the CIO, it seemed to be somewhat inconclusive. The last paragraph really sums up the article from my perspective.
  • JockVSJockJockVSJock Member Posts: 1,118
    Another layer of abuse is that a majority of companies string the HB-1 visa's along and say they will help them with them getting their green card, when they really won't. The company will do this until their HB-1 visa expires, says sorry, gets rid of them and starts the process again with another brand, new HB-1 visa.

    Yes, and I've seen some apartments here in the city where I live where a company van picks up their HB-1 workers for work and drops them off at the end of the work day and there are 4 to 6 of them living in a two bedroom apartment and they have nothing. So if you think you have it bad, think again.

    I would have to agree with Iris, focus on yourself and the solution to this issue isn't going to lie with some smoke and mirrors politician...if we could only outsource US politicians. Surely we could find someone overseas who will do for the work for 80 to 90% less...
    ***Freedom of Speech, Just Watch What You Say*** Example, Beware of CompTIA Certs (Deleted From Google Cached)

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