Anyone switch jobs often early in their IT career?

NoNameNoob

This is where I stand currently:

Job 1 - helpdesk/desktop support 36k 1 year, (laid off)
Job 2 - helpdesk/desktop support 39k 1 year (cannot progress)
Job 3 - Lv 1 Noc analyst 40k (expected stay, 8-12months. Its graveyard if that helps my case)
Job 4 - Hoping for network admin/analyst/engineer position (Would stay at this spot 2-3 years)

Currently im on Job 3, is it going to look bad for me when I start applying for Job 4 or even down the road for Job 5? Was anyone else in a similar situation early on their career?

Any input welcomed, thanks in advance.

mdhisapro

Well, the first 2 jobs being short may not hurt you as much if you capitalize on it during job 3. What I mean by that is since you mentioned it was GY shift; take full advantage of this time to progress your studies. Throw a few certs under your belt and build your knowledge in the niche you want to progress in.

Stick around with job 3 until you can transition to a better position once you have done the prep work to prepare yourself to take on this new role.

I wouldn't think its too uncommon for shorter tenures at entry level positions, so if you move from job 3 with some further knowledge it may not be too hard moving forward from that point.

powerfool

The common rule of thumb for IT jobs is 2 years. Yes, graveyard **** sucks (for many people... I imagine it could ideal for others), but you have to take the opportunities that you have and make the most of them. Since this job is graveyard shift, what about looking for short-term contract work during the days that would let you move into the space that you are interested? Since you have the existing job, you can be super picky and just wait for the ideal opportunity that could work with your existing job. Do something for a week or two, whatever feels comfortable.

Sometimes, these contract positions turn into full-time jobs. That is what I mean by making the most of your opportunities. I had a contract position while I was in school that had "quotas;" so I did what I needed to do to meet those and used the extra time to do homework and other things since I was going to school full-time in the evenings. I had just completed my MCSE prior to this and started working on my BS (this was my first semester). After that contract ended, I took on a three week contract: one week working with this guy and two weeks of filling in for him while he was at training. I made a good impression and they asked me to come back while he was implementing this new CRM system for the company (very small place, was only two IT folks). I stayed about three months, then they hired me on. I worked there for three years and had nearly completed my BS by then.

At other times, prior to any of that, I did server customization in the evenings for one of the big manufacturers. 12 hours shifts, 4 days one week, 3 days the next... plenty of opportunity for overtime. Sometimes I did overtime, other times I had short-term contracts during the day.

Early in your career is your opportunity... yes, you can move from job to job w/o horrible impact, to a point, but you need to make your mark somewhere if you want to move up in your career.

volfkhat

I find it laughable that the notion of a "12-month stay" is considered short tenure.

It's a dog eat dog world.
Don't let the status-quo try to brow-beat you into conforming to their rules.

If you have an opportunity to advance and further yourself.... take it.


If it really comes to it, just list your first two gigs as one.
Include all the Experience/ duties, but Say that you were Self Employed.

Discord

powerfool wrote: »

The common rule of thumb for IT jobs is 2 years.

Hell, 18 months was the industry average last I read. I have to tell you, I've flat out rejected resumes in less than 30 seconds where someone job hops every year or less. In the beginning, I can totally understand to a degree. There's a point however were it makes the person looks unstable and like a potential liability and in turn will reflect badly on you, the job seeker.

I have to agree with what others have said....take some of the graveyard time if you can and study for other things, degree or certs. Having been on that shift cycle for a number of years, I know full well it's not balls out the entire shift 90% of the time so take full advantage of it!

It will suck in the short term, but will accomplish two things - advancement toward the goal you seem to have in mind and provide the needed reflection of position longevity your resume needs.

skswitch

mdhisapro wrote: »

Well, the first 2 jobs being short may not hurt you as much if you capitalize on it during job 3. What I mean by that is since you mentioned it was GY shift; take full advantage of this time to progress your studies. Throw a few certs under your belt and build your knowledge in the niche you want to progress in.

Stick around with job 3 until you can transition to a better position once you have done the prep work to prepare yourself to take on this new role.

I wouldn't think its too uncommon for shorter tenures at entry level positions, so if you move from job 3 with some further knowledge it may not be too hard moving forward from that point.

This this this. Currently on the overnights myself and I have flown through school faster than I ever had before. Not even including all the side projects for my house I research when I take breaks. Hey down time is down time!

Discord wrote: »

Hell, 18 months was the industry average last I read. I have to tell you, I've flat out rejected resumes in less than 30 seconds where someone job hops every year or less. In the beginning, I can totally understand to a degree. There's a point however were it makes the person looks unstable and like a potential liability and in turn will reflect badly on you, the job seeker.

I have to agree with what others have said....take some of the graveyard time if you can and study for other things, degree or certs. Having been on that shift cycle for a number of years, I know full well it's not balls out the entire shift 90% of the time so take full advantage of it!

It will suck in the short term, but will accomplish two things - advancement toward the goal you seem to have in mind and provide the needed reflection of position longevity your resume needs.

I'll politely disagree to to the point of needing 18+ months for resume. Although I don't do any hiring so this is just my opinion.

As long as there is progressive between the job hops, I don't think that should hinder a person. Ex: Help desk 1 to 2 to Junior level to what is next for them.

Once I tapped a job out of experience and know there is no growth. I'm looking for new opportunities. Heck I look even when I'm happy with my job at least one a month. Update resume every 3 months and do interviews every 6 months just to keep fresh.

I can see tossed resumes if they are doing hops to same position over and over not growing. But if they are showing progression, you may be missing out on a top candidate.

devils_haircut

My first few jobs were part time or contract work, so it was short-term by default. I was lucky enough to land a gig at a growing MSP where I went from desktop support to junior network tech to network analyst over the course of about 2.5 years. I then left there for my current gig, which was a significant step up in both pay and responsibility.

I think it's perfectly normal, especially in IT, for qualified people to jump through the first few entry-level jobs rapidly. When I see someone who is still doing helpdesk/desktop support after 3-4 years, I start wondering why they haven't moved up already.

thomas_

Unfortunately, I think some hiring managers are biased towards people who change jobs less than two years. I think the ones that reject resumes over not having X amount of time at previous positions do so because hiring a new person cuts into the time they have to do other things.

I understand it, but I still think it's unreasonable for employers and hiring managers to hold this against people or try to tell people they need to stay X amount of years. When they do this they are taking money out of people's pocket. It's kind of selfish to want people to stay when that person could change jobs and get 10, 20, 30% increase in salary. At the end of the day the employee has to look after their own best interest because employers only look after their own self-interest.

kiki162

I've been there and done that before. I would take the time to work on getting more certs under your belt. Going for one or more CCNP's such as R/S, Cloud, Security, would all benefit you in your career. You can also look at getting security-based certs to help in that as well. I know you want to get into that NA role at Job 4/5, but you need to plan your strategy carefully. Remember that you want to market yourself to future employers and stand out among potential candidates.

EANx

A lot comes down to the type of job you're going after because different jobs take different amounts of time to come up to speed. If I were hiring for help-desk or entry-level sysadmin, switching jobs every 12-18 months wouldn't bother me much because people come up to speed quickly on those jobs. But for my tier-3 engineering positions that regularly work with the tier-3 engineers at Cisco/NetApp/VMware, you can bet I'm not going to look at a resume where the person has less than 5-6 years at their last two jobs combined. When a position will take six months to be fully productive, someone who consistently leaves after 9-12 months isn't worth wasting my time with.

Good employers know who their stars are and work hard to keep them around.

powerfool

The other thing that you have to keep in mind is that many times there are non-IT folks involved in the hiring process... and quite frequently that is accounting/finance people as they had traditional been the move IT-hungry departments... so, IT has very often been aligned along side them. These folks in these other departments are used to different job cycles and expect longer tenure. I had a CFO for a boss and he wasn't interested in folks that didn't have at least 3-4 years at each job; his rationale was that anybody could get away with being a bad employer for two years... you do well enough to make past your probationary period, then you slowly down slide... get a mediocre to poor review after a year, then slide some more and by year two... you are toast.

So, while there are a lot of people sharing their opinions, this can be your reality at some companies. Will it be the end of your career? Very unlikely, but it may close a few doors off until you get a position with longer tenure. And as many have stated, early in your career, it is perfectly fine to have 2-3 of these, especially if it shows growth. It is when it gets beyond that where things begin to be problematic.

powerfool

kiki162 wrote: »

I've been there and done that before. I would take the time to work on getting more certs under your belt. Going for one or more CCNP's such as R/S, Cloud, Security, would all benefit you in your career. You can also look at getting security-based certs to help in that as well. I know you want to get into that NA role at Job 4/5, but you need to plan your strategy carefully. Remember that you want to market yourself to future employers and stand out among potential candidates.

This. When you are trying to breach into this level, specialization doesn't often help much. Have some deep certifications in the level that you want is a must... but then spread out a little bit to show that you can be valuable in more scenarios. Things ebb and flow... and it seems like specialization is starting to go out the window again. I do consulting which is often the hot bed for specialization, and with all of the rapid change associated with the cloud (as if it weren't previously rapid), they want us to start spreading out and adopting new skill sets.

techster79

I've never had an IT job that lasted longer than 5 years. I've been doing this since 1998. Mostly I've changed jobs for better opportunity/pay, early on I was fired and had various contract jobs. Now I'm to the point, I'm not sure I want to change jobs any longer. My current company has low turnover with many people employed for 20+ years.

DatabaseHead

Discord wrote: »

Hell, 18 months was the industry average last I read. I have to tell you, I've flat out rejected resumes in less than 30 seconds where someone job hops every year or less. In the beginning, I can totally understand to a degree. There's a point however were it makes the person looks unstable and like a potential liability and in turn will reflect badly on you, the job seeker.

I have to agree with what others have said....take some of the graveyard time if you can and study for other things, degree or certs. Having been on that shift cycle for a number of years, I know full well it's not balls out the entire shift 90% of the time so take full advantage of it!

It will suck in the short term, but will accomplish two things - advancement toward the goal you seem to have in mind and provide the needed reflection of position longevity your resume needs.

I read a recently published article that for millennials the average stay in an IT role is 2.4 years.

TechGromit

Discord wrote: »

Hell, 18 months was the industry average last I read. I have to tell you, I've flat out rejected resumes in less than 30 seconds where someone job hops every year or less. In the beginning, I can totally understand to a degree. There's a point however were it makes the person looks unstable and like a potential liability and in turn will reflect badly on you, the job seeker.

I agree, I would be very hesitant hiring someone that has lots of one year or less jobs on there resume, no matter how qualified they are. It usually takes a new employee at least a year to be as productive as other employees. They have to learn the company process, what systems or networks they are responsible for, configuration standards, etc. So if they are moving on to there next job by the time you get them to a point they are at there maximum potential, what benefit were they to your business? No one want to be always training new employees. You can get away with hiring someone for say help desk or a cashier and get them up to speed on there jobs pretty quickly, but when you taking about higher level position, you have to be more selective with who your hiring. You can only have so many short term jobs on your resume before it start to hurt you.

skswitch wrote: »

I'll politely disagree to to the point of needing 18+ months for resume. Although I don't do any hiring so this is just my opinion.

This might fly your your career aspirations are to work in IT help desk the rest of your life, but not for upper level positions.

thomas_ wrote: »

It's kind of selfish to want people to stay when that person could change jobs and get 10, 20, 30% increase in salary..

Employers are are hiring you so you can work for them, they are not interested in what best for you, just what's best for them. And if your not going to benefit my business, why should I hire you?

chmod

It may vary from hiring manager to hiring manager and company to company.

But for a hiring manager is also important to analyze why the person has been switching positions so often, that person could be an underperformer, a guy that gets bored easily, and you don't want to be hiring people every 8 months, off course depending on the position you might know people won't stay long but having an employee at least one year is important to adapt to the company, to get opportunities, to learn.

I was looking for an integrator, i saw a very good resume but i saw that this guy after 15 years of experience had stayed long in a company only twice in his career, i understand at the beginning of a person carreer could be normal but at that stage of his life, looked weird to me, i analyzed and realized that the places where he worked long time were support roles, seating on a desk from 8 to 5, the jobs that where more of a consultant type of role, integrator, visiting clients to implement solutions and suppor them he did not work more than one year, 4 companies in 3 years and a half.

I thought may be he is not goot at this, he may not like to deal with customers, he gets bored easily,he cannot deal with pressure, cannot work with low supervision, because that is what his resume made it look like.

DatabaseHead

+1 Tech Gromit

While it's not an absolute it might as well be...... If you have several short term efforts consecutively on your resume it can very well hurt your chances of landing a decent role. Chop shops and high turnover gigs, might not care because they are accustom to it. A stable large mature enterprise is going to look at that resume and toss it.

I experienced this myself, I took intentional short term contracts, ranging anywhere from 3 months to 1 year over the course of 5 years. It really did set me back personally. Since I decided to stay in one role, I was promoted 18 months in and now I've been in this role for 11 months. While I could of jumped for 20-30% I know patience is the best approach, at least that's where I am at now mentally.

I read an article ~2 years ago written by a HR Executive working for a large tech company (I believe Oracle). They said if the candidate's last 2 positions weren't at least 3 years or greater they weren't considered.


Just read this above:

powerfool wrote: »

The other thing that you have to keep in mind is that many times there are non-IT folks involved in the hiring process... and quite frequently that is accounting/finance people as they had traditional been the move IT-hungry departments... so, IT has very often been aligned along side them. These folks in these other departments are used to different job cycles and expect longer tenure. I had a CFO for a boss and he wasn't interested in folks that didn't have at least 3-4 years at each job; his rationale was that anybody could get away with being a bad employer for two years... you do well enough to make past your probationary period, then you slowly down slide... get a mediocre to poor review after a year, then slide some more and by year two... you are toast.

+ 1000

Great post rep.

thomas_

TechGromit wrote: »

Employers are are hiring you so you can work for them, they are not interested in what best for you, just what's best for them. And if your not going to benefit my business, why should I hire you?

I think we're really making the same point. The employer is going to look out for the employer and the employee is going to look out for the employee. Where these two interests happen to coincide a hire is going to be made and where they diverge the employee is going to leave and/or the employer is going to fire the employee.

From the employee perspective, why would they stay if they can make more money at another place and there is no other reason for them to stay such as opportunity for promotion, working with new/different technology, increased responsibilty, company culture, etc. Asking someone to hang around for 5 years to maybe get a promotion is asking way too much these days especially when companies will throw you away like a piece of trash once they have no more use for you.

skswitch

TechGromit wrote: »

This might fly your your career aspirations are to work in IT help desk the rest of your life, but not for upper level positions.

Which is why my next point below was about showing progression. As long as their is a trend of upward movement, I see no issue in this.

I agree this is a entry to mid career pace and not mid to end. But I've seen and worked with people who get suckered into a help desk position for 7 yrs+ with a carrot on a stick promise to a higher level position.

TechGromit wrote: »

Employers are are hiring you so you can work for them, they are not interested in what best for you, just what's best for them. And if your not going to benefit my business, why should I hire you?

Employers are hiring for whats best for them. Employees are getting hired for what is best for them. Really, everyone is looking out for themselves. It needs to be a mutual understanding of what we are here for. Employer wants best suited candidate for cheapest cost. Employee wants highest pay =< best opportunity that is on a path to their goals.

I wish I could find the open tread that was about everyone posting their progress of job title/pay/duration to see the contrast of paths. Some people stayed at a job like you mentioned before 3-4+ years and are underpaid, not happy with situation. Others would move when offered a better job and lastly I recall one where he stay with same company 5+ yrs and turn it into a 100k job due to awesome opportunities.

My point though is if both sides are on the same page with investing into each other people are more likely to stay longer. If that scale is tipped either way some party isn't going to be happy.

The approach of, "What can this person do for my business" vs "What can we do for this person which will benefit my business".. the latter will give the better results with both parties happy.

EANx

Many studies have shown that past a certain point, increased monetary compensation doesn't bring increased satisfaction and that the most common reason for non-entry-level personnel to leave was their boss. In other words, people tend to leave bosses, not jobs.

chmod

Again, it depends on the company and position.

What would the point to hire a manager that always manages teams for 10 months or an SME consultant for an operation that takes 2 years to stabilize if the consultant only likes to work 1 year or less on each company.

Also, you will always find difficilt bosses, weird co-workers, difficult customers, at some point we need to learn to deal with it and learn to keep doing our job, some people cannot have a boss, cannot follow rules so they switch jobs very often, off course is understandable that a young man that started selling laptops @wallmart moved after one year to a support desk position then a year later to a higher support role in a better company and so on,but.... it is weird that an oracle SME DBA, a CIO, CTO or a supervisor-manager moves from company to company every 8 months for 5 years.

Success101

Here's how my time in IT has played out.

My first job was as a help desk guy on a long contract pay was about $45k. I stayed for about 6 months as I quickly learned if I didn't move on, I'd eventually become stuck.

Second was a desktop support job and I was hired over the phone. Initially told they I wanted $50k, but they offered $70k...I guess I impressed them? Anyhow I ended up leaving that job after about 6 months....no specific reason other than overconfident, young and dumb.

From there I went through a series of other low tier IT jobs and doing the same thing. Staying about 4-6 months each time. I eventually landed a Sys Admin role with a tech company and learned TONS of stuff. Pay was decent but still not what I wanted. I stayed there for about a year.

I left there for the highest paying position ever as a Sr Admin. Co-workers aren't the best, job isn't everything I'd like it to be, but I believe I've matured to the point where I understand how many bridges I've burnt and how lucky I am to be where I am. I'm earning six figures and almost out of debt.

Moral of the story: There is a time and place for job hopping. It's better to do earlier in the career. You need to have a end goal in mind. If company 1 can't/won't meets those goals, find another who will.

That's my 2 cents...

Mike R

I've been looking at doing the same. I'm in my first IT job after an occupation change (10 years agriculture management exp prior to IT), and while I get along with my boss and my co workers we have some real fundamental differences when exercising best practice. I work at a small MSP (4) people and we manage 50ish businesses.

The aspect a lot of you bring up is one that's concerned me about switching jobs with less than a year here. I only have an A+ and need to take my CCENT (I know it just haven't taken the time to test). That being said though the pay is kinda low 24K no benefits. However just for a pay increase I don't want to hurt my chances later on down the road. I hope to eventually narrow my field to networks and network security.

The biggest challenge is just getting through HR, and from what some of you have said if I left now that could hurt me later down my path.

powerfool

@Mike R, you're fine to leave if you have been there ~1 year. I would... $24k is rather low pay, especially w/o benefits. I would advise you to start working on an exit strategy if they don't start looking to improve your situation. I bet in an environment like you, you learn a lot real quick. If you have good working relationships there, maybe you look at how you can drive more business and improve customer experience and workplace efficiency for your team. Doing those things allows your team to take on more business without having to hire more folks, which increases your value. This should provide you a mandate for increased compensation... if you don't get it, find a new place.

DatabaseHead

Another +1 for Powerfool, great take.

Agreed early on some movement is not a bad thing, my concern for people just getting started is moving to move and not realizing what you are getting. Help desk A to Help desk B, why? You could build years of services which does look good to a certain extent.

If you are going to move make sure it's worth it.

FloOz

I jumped almost every year during my first 4 years in IT. Its the only way to get into a role you want and get the pay you want...

jcundiff

FloOz wrote: »

I jumped almost every year during my first 4 years in IT. Its the only way to get into a role you want and get the pay you want...

Going to have to disagree with this statement... I've really worked only 2 IT/InfoSec jobs in 18 years... First one I started off as a $10 hour tech support rep and 12 years later when I was finally WFR'd I had been promoted roughly every 2 years. Took a year (during 09-10 recession) to find a gig that was 3 hours away from home... transitioned from IT to a GRC type Infosec role, transitioned from that role to Threat Intelligence about 2 years ago. Was going to leave for more money (about 35%) company countered and I am now making 6 figures and 100% remote, so no you dont have to show no loyalty to a company and jump every year to get the role and salary you want

volfkhat

FloOz wrote: »

I jumped almost every year during my first 4 years in IT. Its the only way to get into a role you want and get the pay you want...

Perhaps not the only way.... but it's definitely an alternative way :]

There's nothing wrong with being a job hopper.
If you are not happy at your current employer.... then why stay?

If you are bored at your current employer... then why stay?
Boredom can turn into Complacency. Next thing you know, you can find yourself Stuck in a job that you should have left years ago..

There's nothing wrong with being a hopper;
just know WHY you hop, and WHAT you are truly searching for.

For me,
i take jobs for the opportunity to Learn/gain valuable experience/skills.
Once that goal has been met.... i leave.
My end goal is to become established enough to start consulting....
where i can do even more Hopping, traveling, and learning.
(at my own leisure, of course!)


Some people are perfectly content to work at "only 2 IT/InfoSec jobs in 18 years."
There's nothing wrong with that either...

EANx

volfkhat wrote: »

Perhaps not the only way.... but it's definitely an alternative way :]

There's nothing wrong with being a job hopper.
If you are not happy at your current employer.... then why stay?

If you are bored at your current employer... then why stay?
Boredom can turn into Complacency. Next thing you know, you can find yourself Stuck in a job that you should have left years ago..

There's nothing wrong with being a hopper;
just know WHY you hop, and WHAT you are truly searching for.

And what the risks are, that others will not look at you in a positive light. There's nothing morally wrong but it's important to be aware of both sides.

jcundiff

volfkhat wrote: »

Some people are perfectly content to work at "only 2 IT/InfoSec jobs in 18 years."
There's nothing wrong with that either...

Oops, I kind of mis-stated that... 2 companies in 18 years, not 2 jobs I am actually on the third "job" with company #2 ... IT Incident Management> GRC>Threat Intel

With company #1, I was actually in the same building for 12 years but the name on the front of the building changed about 5 times MCI>MCIWorldcom>Worldcom>EDS>HP as M&A activities ran amok During my tenure I went from support>service desk leadership>account management>service desk leadership again>Incident, Problem, and Change Management.

sorry, for not making that clearer 1st time around point I was trying to make is you dont have to jump companies every year, or even every 2 years if you are earning your pay and performing, you will get opportunities to learn/move up the chain... if not then yeah, time to bail. Guess I have just been lucky with the employers I have had

sidninja

the job i am in now is my second job - i quit the first one after being there 10 months because the commute for me was getting to me although the work itself was fine (in hindsight, i was desperate in a way to get a job) and the job i am in now is far better and I am using far more skills (both roles were presales, but this one i am actually doing that job as opposed to doing Bill of Materials all day)

and i get paid more as well - it was a risk, but it paid off. And i am remote as well.

the only people that will bring up the issue of moving so often is the recruiter and possibly the person interviewing you for the role.

@jcundiff - nice picture haha - also 6 figures? wow but you have the years to back that up.

i am only 26 and graduated from uni last year.