Trump Admin to introduce new H1B requirements bill.

Params7

IT firms: Trump government tables new H-1B bill; techies, IT firms brace for tough future - The Economic Times

WASHINGTON: A legislation has been introduced in the US House of Representatives which among other things calls for more than doubling the minimum salary of H-1B visa holders to USD 130,000, making it difficult for firms to use the programme to replace American employees with foreign workers, including from India.

The High-Skilled Integrity and Fairness Act of 2017 introduced by California Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren prioritises market based allocation of visas to those companies willing to pay 200 per cent of a wage calculated by survey, eliminates the category of lowest pay, and raises the salary level at which H-1B dependent employer are exempt from non displacement and recruitment attestation requirements to greater than USD 130,000.

This is more than double of the current H-1B minimum wage of USD 60,000 which was established in 1989 and since then has remained unchanged.

Of course I see this getting huge pushback from the IT Sector.

I think this is both good and bad in ways. Good because it will pretty much destroy the fake IT resume business (aka Flexi-Staffing), it will also force IT Sector to stop hiring cheaper foreign workers. On the bad, perhaps too drastic a change too fast and there actually might not be enough talent to replace the current pool of H1Bs.

Edit: This bill was actually introduced by a Democrat congresswoman. So it may get bipartisan support or perhaps may be entirely changed by Trump.

TechGromit

Params7 wrote: »

IT firms: Trump government tables new H-1B bill; techies, IT firms brace for tough future - The Economic Times

I'm no trump fan, but this is long overdue. What I see is a lot of companies posting a job that no human on the planet could possibly qualify for (often with a low salary), claim there are no qualified applicants so need a H-1B tech worker to fill the position, hire a contractor from oversea that doesn't meet half of the qualifications they originally asked for peanuts, work the contractor to death because there visa is contingent on working for the company. What can't work 70 hours a week, every week? Sorry your fired, we'll get someone else that can.

This is an extreme example, but there have been a lot abuses in the H-1B Visa program by companies. Even to the point of laying off American employees to replacing them with cheaper foreign workers.

keenon

i do and don't agree. I do think they need to be paid par as US citizens for the same position. I don't as the US has fought hard against investing in higher education standards in basic schools k-12 this creates a "thinking process" gap where the US citizens are not competitive in math and sciences required by many sectors.

other countries are investing in education highly and the US has been divesting. If this snowball isn't stopped we are well on the way to idiocracy if we aren't already there

daviddws

Way overdue. Having worked in Silicon Valley I've seen so many Americans passed over for tech jobs.

Hammer80

About time! The original intention of the H1B program was to bring employees with skills that were not available here in US. The $130k there should be no issues paying that to anyone that possess such skill. So any companies that are complaining is because they know that gravy train is over. I swear the entire IT dept in my last place was Indians with H1B visas, not a single American to be found. I hope this is retroactive so it screws companies like Disney who fired about 500 American IT workers and replaced them with H1B visa employees.

Chinook

@Hammer80

We had the same thing in Canada. They created the "Temporary Foreign Workers" program to fill in gaps in places like resort towns in the mountains or for farming. What happened was that every service business started using TFW's for all their work & excluded Canadians. Canadian people were even fired and replaced with the lower end workers. I worked for a hotel once that put 12 of them in a single house, charged them $500 a month each in rent and treated them like absolute garbage.

There are times when you need to import that very specialized guy from overseas but that's the exception, not the rule. Of course what might happen is that companies will just offshore everything again.

gespenstern

It could be bad for IT corps who stack up their billions and use profits to buyback shares, because they will be forced to pay more.

But chances are it's going to be good to IT workforce in the US -- more demand and higher pay.

Also, remember the Disney H-1B story.

chrisone

gespenstern wrote: »

But chances are it's going to be good to IT workforce in the US -- more demand and higher pay.

I am hoping for it!

But seriously, any HB1 working/earning 130k compared to their country of origin must be still a lot of money! Hell I wish I earned 130k!

thomas_

I think it's a step in the right direction.

paul78

First - this bill is not being introduced by the Trump Administration. The President cannot introduce legislation. The President usually has to find a sponsor in congress to do it.

Second - Zoe Lofgren is a democrat representing Silicon Valley.

Third - increasing the minimum to $120K effectively adjusts the minimum to inflation. 60K in 1989 is about 120K today.

I have not read the bill but I intend to do so - you should be able to find the draft bill here on Congresswoman Lofgren's site - https://lofgren.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398125

It would probably be useful if the bill pegged the minimum to inflation.

Iristheangel

It wouldn't be a bad thing at all. I suspect those employed for IT purposes probably wouldn't get that much of a bump, if any, but it'll be nice for both the H1Bs and the workforce if it includes stricter penalties for putting them under the wrong job title.

TechGromit

keenon wrote: »

i do and don't agree. I do think they need to be paid par as US citizens for the same position.

That may be true, but isn't also true that the foreign workers visa is contingent on continued employment with the company. So the company can place demands on salary foreign workers time that other people would bulk at. 60 hours a week, 80? How much can with push him before he goes postal. Doing the job of 2 people, 3? What a cost savings. If it wasn't saving the company money in the long run they wouldn't do it. It's simple economics. Also if the original job posting was for peanuts that no America would take, the company could contract the job to a H1B contractor and claim that what the job pays. Hey look at the job posting we listed for a year, senior engineer with 10 years experience for 40k, we searched extensively to find a qualified American to fill the position, and just couldn't find anyone. Unfortunately we were forced to look overseas to fill the position, we blame it on America's sub-par educational system.

Iristheangel

TechGromit wrote: »

That may be true, but isn't also true that the foreign workers visa is contingent on continued employment with the company. So the company can place demands on salary foreign workers time that other people would bulk at. 60 hours a week, 80? How much can with push him before he goes postal. Doing the job of 2 people, 3? What a cost savings.

How is this different from almost every IT team of US workers? It would be nice if most IT workers only worked 40 hours a week. Reality is far from that often

TechGromit

paul78 wrote: »

First - this bill is not being introduced by the Trump Administration.

I really don't care if the bill was sponsored by the Easter Bunny. The simple fact the cost of H1B foreign workers for these corporations has to be significantly higher than hiring American workers, otherwise they will continue to abuse the system. Disney is a perfect example of what could happen when companies are allowed to continue unchecked. If no American is available, then you could use the Foreign worker program to fill the job, but it should be a last resort and should expensive enough so as to truly encourage corporations to hire Americans first.

iBrokeIT

...prioritises market based allocation of visas to those companies willing to pay 200 per cent of a wage calculated by survey, eliminates the category of lowest pay, and raises the salary level at which H-1B dependent employer are exempt from non displacement and recruitment attestation requirements to greater than USD 130,000.


It raises the salary level at which H-1B dependent employer are exempt from attestation requirements to a new required wage level of 35 percentile points above the median national annual wage for Computer and Mathematical Occupations published by the Department of Labour Occupational Employment Statistics (roughly USD132,000), which would be adjusted in the future without the need for new legislation, and eliminates the Master's Degree exemption for dependent employers.

The legislation sets aside 20 per cent of the annually allocated H-1B visas for small and start-up employers (50 or fewer employers) to ensure small businesses have an opportunity to compete for high-skilled workers, while still protecting against outsourcing.

It doesn't actually "raise the minimum salary" or even set a hard minimum but it does make H1B more competitive and increases the attestation threshold which is what is getting your attention. This bill has yet to even go anywhere, let a lone had a chance to be debated and watered down by paid lobbyist... don't hold your breath guys.

paul78

TechGromit wrote: »

I really don't care if the bill was sponsored by the Easter Bunny.

The reason why I care is because there are lots of people that will simply discount the various H1B proposals simply because of political affiliation instead of the merits of the bill. And depending on where you get your news or op-ed - there is a tendency to bend facts in both directions.

TechGromit wrote: »

The simple fact the cost of H1B foreign workers for these corporations has to be significantly higher than hiring American workers, otherwise they will continue to abuse the system.

I can only comment on my own experience. The last time I hired people on a H1b - they were data scientists in a niche tech area. The recruiting cost alone was about 30K per individual excluding attorney fees which were another 7K. It was not cheap and it meant having to higher one less person than I needed. But it's the abuses that needs to be stopped. The spirit of the original H1B has been warped and has never kept up pace - this I agree with you. Not sure why for other visa class like H1A for nurses there has been scant changes.

TechGromit wrote: »

Disney is a perfect example of what could happen when companies are allowed to continue unchecked. If no American is available, then you could use the Foreign worker program to fill the job, but it should be a last resort and should expensive enough so as to truly encourage corporations to hire Americans first.

Unfortunately, the bill proposed which is mentioned here, I do not feel adequately addresses the penalties. I see that it has been adjusted - but the cap on penalties seem much too low to me.

I just read H.R. 670 - I would restate my hope that as this bill is refined - we see an adjustment to how the salary minimums are calculated. It's good to see that discretionary compensation can no longer be part of the calculation. And I hope the penalty cap is increased. There are some interesting other provisions like a 20% reservation for small businesses and removal of per-country quotas.

The other bill that wasn't mentioned is H.R. 170 - there is an interesting proposal to tie the min salary to the C.P.I every third fiscal year but H.R. 170 only raises the minimum to 100K. Although - I don't know if using prevailing wages make more sense as proposed in H.R. 170 since it's market-driven. But then again - I'm not an economist so....

One thing that I have never understood is how the DOL defines high-skilled worker - imho - many roles in tech don't really fall into this category - no offense to anyone. And I don't understand how other job classes are considered high-skilled under H1B.

The various proposed Bills on H1B reform are likely going to take a while - and I didn't even look to see how many are being sponsored. Let's hope that the US legislature is serious about this.

blargoe

What is to stop US companies from just setting up their current H1B engineers in an office in India and have them remotely support whatever it is they support?

Hammer80

blargoe wrote: »

What is to stop US companies from just setting up their current H1B engineers in an office in India and have them remotely support whatever it is they support?

That may work for a tech support or a customer service job, but for high skill jobs companies need warm bodies on the ground and in the same timezone. Them being stuck in a office in India will limit their collaboration with US based company and every time I have seen companies outsource high skill job to India they have come to regret the decision. They are very good in following specific directions but good luck with abstract thinking that is simply a skill that is not taught or encouraged, not sure if this has anything to do with cultural attitudes.

In every instance a US company that has done that has had to have the same work redone by a US based company for double or triple the original cost, unfortunately by the time that happens the original executive that made the decision to outsource has already collected their bonus and have been promoted. Companies usually pay for their Masters and Phd's the problem is that they are not on par with western institutions because they are not taught to think outside the box. It's kinda like the difference between a car mechanic and a mechanical engineer, one is taught to follow directions and fix existing equipment and the other is taught how to create and develop something completely new. I am not saying that they are not capable of it just simply it's not taught. One country that is starting to change in that regard is China which has been very aggressive in pushing home grown innovation and trying to foster Silicon Valley way of doing things.

Iristheangel

@hammer - you obviously have never worked with WiPro before...

Chinook

blargoe wrote: »

What is to stop US companies from just setting up their current H1B engineers in an office in India and have them remotely support whatever it is they support?

Or more likely what's to stop them from opening in Canada where working visa's are relatively easy to get

Priston

I wonder if this bill will help India keep some of it's top talent. Maybe we will see startups in India and innovation headquartered in India.

OctalDump

So, I am not US, but we have similar programs here (like most western countries). I think that there is some value in a company being able to hire broadly, they can get the best staff to compete internationally, ideas get shared between countries, people get to work with the best and learn from them. If a company is more competitive it actually has the potential to hire more workers, and to pay better.

BUT it has huge potential for abuse, particularly where an employer has a lot more power over a foreign hire. At one extreme you can think of indentured labourers or serfs. If they can get a foreign worker who they can exploit, it is not a level playing field for native workers who have greater protections. The effect is to make conditions (pay, benefits, working conditions, hours etc) worse for everyone - it puts pressure on native workers to submit to the same (illegal, or just bad) conditions to remain competitive in the job market.

Having the salary cut off is only one measure, it needs much more rigorous control to ensure that the foreign workers aren't exploited, are actually being hired for their skills, and regular workers are still treated fairly. This necessarily means very strong, robust, well crafted legislation backed with a rigorous regulation and enforcement and strong disincentives to companies that break the rules.

OctalDump

Priston wrote: »

I wonder if this bill will help India keep some of it's top talent. Maybe we will see startups in India and innovation headquartered in India.

They already exist and these, too. Most people don't like emigrating, given the choice. They like to stay in a familiar culture and country, close to family. I think India's big challenge at the moment is still raising capital. Their middle class is still growing rapidly, and soon will be larger than the total US population.

It is still useful for people to cross countries to work, since it allows us to learn something from each other. Things like Scrum and Six Sigma have roots in Japanese work practice, for example.

Deus Ex Machina

I won't believe it until I see it proposed by the Trump administration. I'm a young guy, but it seems to me like the allure to outsource IT labor is only growing as companies look for new ways to maximize every cent of profit they can. During a job shadow I attended last year, I asked a guy at one of these companies why they outsourced a particular job, and they told me it was to increase their "cultural diversity"- I'm pretty sure they could still get their "cultural diversity" without paying them half the normal rate. This whole thing is like putting a silk hat on a pig.

Priston

@OctalDump that first link is mostly a list of staffing agencies and companies that are not headquartered in India.