How to Pressure my Management for My Past Due Promotion...

Danielh22185

As the title states...

And to give some background...

I accepted a new position at work which is a great move from me (moving from L2 net-ops to L3, L3 being the final support group and end-of-the-line for network support for my company. We see all the cool issues to resolution and play a deep involvement in handling the big / complex issues of the firm). This was offered to me to start working for the team back in October, which I openly accepted. However due to the end of the year my company was locked up with hiring freezes so it was not possible at that time to actually extend me an offer. I was told it would come toward the beginning of 2017 when freezes would be lifted and promotions would be issued. I understood this and frankly didn't think much of it nor felt the need to worry. Now it being February promotions are going out. Just not for me... not yet... not even a word of detail...

The part that is troubling is (and this was in my last discussion with my new manager) that I am being told that "I am being highly considered and that I am near the top of their list" of people to consider for promotions as I am currently working UNDER the minimum pay requirements for my position. This got me thinking... being underpaid I would think that SHOULD put me AT THE TOP of "said list" or make me one of the very first people to be considered. Also considering the fact I worked as hard as I did to grow as a L2 engineer, interview, and be accepted as a candidate to fill my now position. This promotion is not only deserved but to rightfully adjust my pay to meet the actual position requirements.

Instead within my same org I have seen middle managers get special treatment and get title promotions where it's hardly as justifiable; these particular individuals are maintaining the same role and not doing a single thing different day-to-day. These individuals also not only received their promotions already but also received public recognition of it as well. I feel because I am the tech I am low on their radar and middle mgmt often is considered before the techs who bust their butts working tirelessly to become key technical assets.



So at this point I just want to continue putting pressure on my mgmt to provide what I deserve (and was promised) yet handle it in a professional way. I am tempted to bring up the fact that others in my org DID already receive promotions yet I haven't even been talked to with the hintest of a detail about what to expect for mine. I fear bringing this may compound on me negatively (honestly feels a bit unprofessional). I feel if I did that I might be labeled as a complainer and would be gradually fueling a blaze that I could not put out. (you can see my sense of trust...)

Being in my current predicament creates fear that I will continue to be over looked. Also because I don't meet the minimum pay requirements I don't feel as protected as the other engineers on my team as they are real members (on paper). I wonder if I should bring up my fears as well or maybe save that for now as I am hopeful these are just an over exaggeration of my emotions.

Thoughts?

UncleB

I would ask for a 1-2-1 meeting with your manager, give him a list of your concerns as bullet points in the request and ask him to consider the points before the meeting.

This way you are making it crystal clear what you are concerned about, you have a paper trail that you are doing it by the book and you come across as being level headed, sensible and constructive in handling it.

Don't worry about the management looking after their own - this happens in many places and while it may be distasteful, the managers are just people and come with all the associated failings so I would not expect a great deal from them. You are still on the other side of the management & workers divide so you are relying on the managers being decent to you to get what you want, so don't rattle their cage if you want to get favourable terms.

If it doesn't work out as you hope, get ready to find another job that has got decent prospects and better management - they have not shown you much loyalty so return the favour and lead by their example in this situation.

Good luck.
Iain

volfkhat

UncleB wrote: »

If it doesn't work out as you hope, get ready to find another job that has got decent prospects and better management - they have not shown you much loyalty so return the favour and lead by their example in this situation.

ha!
UncleB with another gem :]


my two cents:
1st,
congrats on completing your CCNP. I hope to earned mine one day (hopefully before they revise it again).


2nd,
What's more important to you right presently:
the LEARNING or the EARNINGS?


it's a personal question; everyone is different.


If i had Just earned my CCNP, and i had Just landed my first level-3 network gig (with the great exp that you described), i would ride that Wave for at least a couple years.


Whether they paid me (fairly) or not..... it's the EXP that really matters.
In fact, I would let their disrespect serve as my motivation to continue growing my personal skillset.


So,
follow take UncleB's advice for approaching management.
But don't fret; no matter what they say... you are already winning.

TechGromit

Sometimes I feel the same way you do, I was hired at the bottom end of the pay scale for my position and work my ass off compared to some of the slackers with my job title at other locations. But I take comfort in the fact the company as spent 15k on my this year in training, not including travel, and around 10k last year. With training, experience and certifications, I should be earning what I want to in a few years. I just need to be a little more patient.

My advise, smile and live with it for now. The experience your getting will be very valuable when you jump ship to get a job elsewhere, if they don't promote you, stick with it for a couple of years. What I would do it look how much experience other companies are looking for when hiring for your position. Tailor your skills and experience to be the perfect job candidate for another company and when you meet the requirements seriously start looking around and demand compensation at the top of your pay scale.

DPG

So you started working in the new position without an adjustment in compensation or title change?

keenon

sounds to me they are looking at you last or not at all. them saying "top of list" is not to make you feel unwanted. I would say start looking at other opportunities in the area that are paying you scale.

Also depending on your relationship with your manager I would bring it up and let him know your concern on this seeming to vanish promise.

Danielh22185

All great advice! Thanks everyone!

I definitely am going to make a list of discussion points to have with my manager. The experience gained is good and I would like to solidify my tenure as a Level 3 tech for my company a bit longer to polish my resume, although Facebook does have some network engineer jobs open at their brand new shiny data center just down the road from me

bigdogz

Learn what you can and move on. Don't take it personally, just use it to motivate you to better yourself.

Danielh22185

So I am still having issues getting my mgmt to give me any bit of information at all regarding my promotion and when it is due to be received. I've had a few talks with my current manager and he just keeps telling me he will look into and get back to me. At this point I am getting frustrated and beginning to grow resentment toward my mgmt. I think I will need to be more aggressive.

With that said I am thinking I need to go above my managers head and go to his boss. However I am a bit worried about doing this correctly. Should I let my manager even know I am doing this? If I do when is the right time? Maybe talk with his boss first then inform him after or just let it be completely as is and let my manager's boss talk to my manager if need be.

Thoughts?

UncleB

Danielh22185 wrote: »

I am thinking I need to go above my managers head and go to his boss.

That is a fast track way to kill any career progression. If you think you can bypass the chain of command without consequences then it is rare it will work without blowback.

Have you kept this in writing each time? If not, start now prior to the meetings with your boss (ie email to say "can we have a meeting to discuss the promotion you promised me in January? "

If you want to push harder then you need proof he promised this, but push too hard and you are going to incur his wrath at some point.

If he really is turning into something as useful as a chocolate teapot then get looking for other jobs and write this job off as a dead-end. Throwing the toys out of the pram over it with them is not going to get you anywhere and you may just have to chalk it up to experience.

There are plenty more companies out there willing to look after a skilled, hard worker.

NetworkNewb

I've had managers promise me things and not follow through. Usually ended in me getting the raise/promotion I wanted by going to another company.

I wouldn't go around your manager though.

bigdogz

It never works for you to go over your manager's boss. He will just tell your boss. It seems that they are taking care of management folks first and then may work their way down. If other employees have been moved over there might be two things: 1) they are just slow to move or 2) they fed you some BS because you earned your CCNP and are trying to hold you until they find (using your terms) 'real members'.

Please expound on your term 'real members'.

Good Luck !!!

volfkhat

UncleB wrote: »

If he really is turning into something as useful as a chocolate teapot then get looking for other jobs and write this job off as a dead-end. Throwing the toys out of the pram over it with them is not going to get you anywhere and you may just have to chalk it up to experience.

i don't think he should quit just yet.
There is still a chunk of experience to be gained.

But i think OP needs to chillax.
You are definitely getting jerked around. But So what; That's life in the U.S.A.

Whether your immediate supervisor is intentionally "holding things up"; or it's somewhere higher up the chain; it's probably beyond your control.
The only thing you can control is "getting your EXP".

Sticking your neck out... will probably be met with an SHarp, Pointy object.
Count on it.


But if you don't CARE about the consequences... then proceed Full Speed Ahead.
(I will never advise a person against Standing UP for themself.)

jeremywatts2005

I would not go to my manager at this point. Instead, sit and wait to see what happens. Obtain some more experience and dust off that resume. Start looking around a little to see what the market is like for you skills. Put yourself out there and maybe someone will give you what you want and more money with it. Now is the time to do it. You have an additional cert, some experience and your current employer has decided to go into a holding pattern. This usually means budgeting is not being approved or the position is not funded yet or some other nonsense. Also did you get the promotion in writing ? If not then you are at the mercy of the manager to do something. Just some suggestions

NOC-Ninja

When I passed CCIE, my company didnt give me a raise right away. They told me that there was a hiring freeze. I waited a few months and nothing. So I did what I thought was best for me. I looked for jobs outside. I got an interviewed on by well known companies.


I got an big 6 digit offer right away from a well known hospital. I told that to my boss. Showed them the offer and the position. Guess what happened? I showed it to them thursday. By Sunday they sent me their counter offer. With the adjustment of cost of living. They offered me more.


I learned that company gives you these BS excuses that there is a hiring freeze. I recommend you find a better paying job and let them counter. If they dont want to counter, then move.

Danielh22185

I did start looking around. Actually have an initial phone interview with a company tomorrow and I have caught word of their pay range already being higher than what I can presume to expect to get out of my promotion.

Unfortunately I did not get anything in writing. I excitedly accepted the job with nothing written as a promotion would be promised. All the promises have been verbal which I am learning quickly I need to do a better job of covering myself in the future.

At this point I have a huge growing resentment of my management and doubt they would counter and / or if they did I don't think I would want to stay even with a counter. I am approaching that point of having a foot out the door. I actually was beginning to feel this way when I was a level 2 tech for the same organization. I thought going to Level 3 was going to present a lot of learning / mentorship opportunities for me which has not been the case at all. The senior techs on my team are the defining example of lazy and selfish. They hardly share information and do as little work as possible. All while I am also training 2 other newer techs (making more money than me) while maintaining my own work and trying to not drown in the work because the team as a whole is dysfunctional.

Now that I have typed out all of that and thought it through. I think my best move is to leave. The money is not going to make me happy. I guess my expectation was to get a little bit of extra cash all while being on the look out for something new...

UncleB

Danielh22185 wrote: »

At this point I have a huge growing resentment of my management...

I hear your pain but remember that these managers are just people - often techies pushed up the tree before they are ready and without adequate support or training themselves so they end up doing a less than optimal job.

Don't make it personal if you can, keep it all about the work and the reward with a seasoning of office culture and it will make it easier to deal with.

It sounds like you are seeing it the same way many on here would and realise that your potential would be better realised elsewhere.

Whatever your choice, good luck.

kurosaki00

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

When I passed CCIE, my company didnt give me a raise right away. They told me that there was a hiring freeze. I waited a few months and nothing. So I did what I thought was best for me. I looked for jobs outside. I got an interviewed on by well known companies.


I got an big 6 digit offer right away from a well known hospital. I told that to my boss. Showed them the offer and the position. Guess what happened? I showed it to them thursday. By Sunday they sent me their counter offer. With the adjustment of cost of living. They offered me more.


I learned that company gives you these BS excuses that there is a hiring freeze. I recommend you find a better paying job and let them counter. If they dont want to counter, then move.

I'd follow this advice.

volfkhat

Danielh22185 wrote: »

Now that I have typed out all of that and thought it through. I think my best move is to leave. The money is not going to make me happy. I guess my expectation was to get a little bit of extra cash all while being on the look out for something new...

WinnerWinnerChickenDinner :]

NotHackingYou

Danielh22185 wrote: »

I did start looking around. Actually have an initial phone interview with a company tomorrow and I have caught word of their pay range already being higher than what I can presume to expect to get out of my promotion.

<snip>

Now that I have typed out all of that and thought it through. I think my best move is to leave. The money is not going to make me happy. I guess my expectation was to get a little bit of extra cash all while being on the look out for something new...

Now you've got it. If they valued you they would have already taken care of it. When you resign and they hit you with a counter, it's too late.

Chitownjedi

Put in your notice.

As someone who is in management, its cuts through all the crap. Tactfully of course. Never bluff.

bigdogz

If they do give a counter offer, kindly decline and jet.

Danielh22185

Little update to my status:

I interviewed with another company. They want to bring me in for a 2nd interview. So this got me thinking. I just started my current position last October. I still have yet to get word of anything in motion for my promotion either. I also took ya'll's advice and did not go above my manager's head. Anywho... I'm wondering now if this new company decides to hire me and everything is right would I be burning a bridge leaving my current company only after being in a my current role 6 months? In total I have been with my company nearly 5 years. I am worried a bit about that but with the way I have been treated I feel I am about at my breaking point. I really dread the idea of giving them anymore rope for my current situation and feel I need to do what is best for me, my career, and my family.


Also as stated before my current position is not at all what I expected and is very hands off compared to this new one. The new job would be very hands on and I would have my hands on every aspect of networking (design, implement, support, upgrade). I think it would be very good for me and expose me to many other layers of networking outside of my current and past roles which has only ever really been network operational support.

NetworkNewb

I wouldn't think you would be burning a bridge. You've been with them 5 years, I doubt the length of current role would matter that much after that much time.

DatabaseHead

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

I got an big 6 digit offer right away from a well known hospital. I told that to my boss. Showed them the offer and the position. Guess what happened? I showed it to them thursday. By Sunday they sent me their counter offer. With the adjustment of cost of living. They offered me more.

Same thing happened to me. Was making a decent salary, applied got offered a big bump > 20% and they counter offered >30%.

I'm loving it.

Hammer80

Danielh22185 wrote: »

I'm wondering now if this new company decides to hire me and everything is right would I be burning a bridge leaving my current company only after being in a my current role 6 months? In total I have been with my company nearly 5 years.

It's fine that you are trying to do the right thing but let's get one thing clear you have not been in current role for the past 6 months, you were given the responsibility of that role without actually getting the promotion and the extra pay which is BS, this is why you're looking now for another job. Considering you have been there for over 5 years this is ridiculous that you even have to deal with this crap, after 5 years you don't owe them anything.

soccarplayer29

^^ ditto

ThePawofRizzo

Whatever you do, do what is best for YOU.

Whichever you do: Be tactful. Be diplomatic. That doesn't mean you can't speak bluntly and forthrightly to a manager if you are offered another position, and your current manager FINALLY sees the writing on the wall when you give him your notice. If your manager counters, and you have some desire to stay, make sure the counter offer is worth it to you. If you would stay, at least the next time you talk to your current manager about a promotion or pay raise the manager will know you mean business.

I was at a job for four months years ago, and after starting was offered an even better paying gig. I struggled initially because of my short stint there, but ultimately decided "I need to look out for me." When I gave notice, even after four months, my manager tried countering me two times because I'd already helped with some big projects, and guess I'd impressed. Still, I took the job I'm in now, and am glad I did.

The job before that I was at for 8 years, and my managers there were always throwing around the "Oh, HR won't allow us to promote." or "No money" excuses. They told it to the whole team for years. My immediate manager gave me - and others on the team - additional responsibilities under the auspices that I was proving myself for promotion, and after doing a couple projects and being told the "No money" story a couple more times, I told him "I won't take on any more responsibilities. You told me I was successful, and would see promotion within the year, and we're past that year again with no promotion. I won't do more work for nothing when others in other departments are getting their promotions." (I'm pretty blunt when I've had my fill....I don't suggest it to everyone, but I don't have a family to worry about, keep my education up to date, etc. So, I could leave for less if tired enough.) Months later my manager called me in and began offering me a mid-manager type role, something I had the ability to do well. When I asked him about pay he told me "Well, we can't do anything right now, but we can talk about it in six months." Knowing my answer right at that moment, I still told him, "Let me think on it a bit." I waited a few days, finally making him call me in again rather than me going to him. He sat me down, obviously all excited about this great opportunity he supposedly laid in my lap. He was almost gleeful. I told him feigning glee right back, "Thanks for considering me for this position," I politely started, "You are right that I have all the talent to accomplish what you desire in the position, and can do it well." My manager obviously thought that I was going to say, "OK, I'll do it.".....but instead I said, "But there is absolutely nothing in the position currently for me. No added benefits. No money. If you want me to do it, come back to me in six months after you've secured a significant increase in pay, so that while my skills benefit you there is something there for me as well." Wow he was pissed, and immediately pouted, turned to his laptop, and I left the office with a smile. It wasn't as if I hadn't spoken with him about promotions with pay raises before (as had others), and somehow he thought he'd sucker me into something free yet again. Needless to say that probably didn't help my career there, but I was already working on other gigs, and left for a 33% pay raise a few months later. Interestingly, 3 of 5 other admins on our team all left within the same month, so the two that remained have both been promoted a couple times in the last two years. He learned his lesson I suspect. I love that story.

bigdogz

Once you receive writing on a new position, give your 2 weeks notice. Don't make it personal, just tell them another opportunity arose.

volfkhat

Danielh22185 wrote: »

Anywho... I'm wondering now if this new company decides to hire me and everything is right would I be burning a bridge leaving my current company only after being in a my current role 6 months? In total I have been with my company nearly 5 years. I am worried a bit about that but... blahblah blah

Let me tell you about my coworker, Rosemary.
We had been working together for about 8 months.
Then one Friday (at the end of a very long day); she says' "Bye Volf khat".
I said "Bye".... but thought it was a bit odd (normally, it was "have a nice weekend", etc)

Monday comes.... No Rosemary.
Our Manager comes around early afternoon; Asks the rest of the team if anyone heard from her; we all shrugged.

Tuesday comes... still No Rosemary.
Again, Manager comes around; Asks the rest of the team if anyone heard from her; we suggested that he try her cell.

On Wednesday.... a small box arrives. it contained two items:
Rosemary's Badge,
Rosemary's company phone.

Finito.


now THAT is how you burn a bridge!
LOL
:]

cyberguypr

Sounds like the one I pulled a while back. Gave 1 week notice on a Monday, no one saw me after Tuesday. Badge and pager found in drawer. Hands down the most satisfying thing I've done in my life. It also saved my former boss from a beating, so win-win in my book.