How to negotiate a pay increase before I get hired?

Skylinks

I just took an interview today, and they asked me how much am I looking to make. I said $55,000 annually. They said that they can offer that much. Then they had me fill out a skills assessment and they said that they will be in touch. They called me just a few hours later asking if I could come in tomorrow for a second interview, and I said yes.

Now am I selling myself too short here? I know I am not at the senior level, but I don't want to work for peanuts. I don't any any experience with databases, Sharepoint, or Citrix. I have limited experience with Exchange, VMware, Cisco IOS, and VoiP.

To give some context, I live in Southern California (so needless to say it's expensive here). I have a bachelors of science in CIS with about eight years in systems administration and over 15 years in IT. I don't have any current certs (they all expired). The company I interviewed with is an MSP with about 200 clients and about 50 employees.

LittleBIT

From working with MSPs, you can expect to get lowballed. Just from personal experience. Also, no current certs may also be a factor. Depends how important it is to that MSP. Thats about right for a sysadmin, even here in the east coast. What you can think about to leverage a better paycheck is talk about topics that they could be weak in that you could fill. Are they moving clients to virtualization? Is every client backing up locally/offsite? Is the MSP lacking in the RMM department? Are projects moving like crap?

I went from 55K Sys Admin to about 65+K for another MSP as a project analyst/engineer (w/e that means), I help implement RMM/Automation, project baselines and schedules and documentation, best practices, etc, etc. Things they needed help with. They were even going to pay me up to 75K to stay but I decided to move on to other oppertunities after 6 months.

Point is, throw a rock in any direction and you'll hit a Sys Admin, what gets you to a better check is being more than just technical. A crude point, but true in the MSP world, I believe.

If your whole background is fixing stuff, then yeah, no beuno. What about big deployments? Moving people to the cloud like O365, or GApps? Any experience with huge rollouts? Full server / workstation upgrades? Etc, etc.

On last edit...
A quote I found that is tried and true from some guy whose name eludes me, paraphrased of course, "Having 10 years experience doing 1 thing is different than having Experience doing 10 things in one year"

kurosaki00

I don't know bud... It's a case by case scenario.
Just go with how much you make right now vs new gig. Is it higher? Maybe is not much higher but it also offers new IT areas?
I don't want to be the guy that says this... because I don't know what problems or difficulties you've had in your life.
But I seriously suggest you start taking some certs and venturing out to new technologies out there. With 15 years of experience you should be aiming higher.

Best of lucks

paul78

Skylinks wrote: »

.... they asked me how much am I looking to make. I said $55,000 annually. They said that they can offer that much. ...

Just my 2 cents - but it sounds like the negotiation is already done. You would be taking a risk to re-negotiate a number that was already agreed upon. As a hiring manager, that would be a red-flag to me. In the past - I've retracted offers when candidates decided that they wanted more for whatever reason. To me - that candidate is someone that doesn't think through major decisions and may be too flippant.

Congratulations for getting them to agree to what you wanted.

TacoRocket

Remember if you're going to negotiate give reasons why it makes sense. Your personal reasons are not enough to get paid more (gas is to much)

soccarplayer29

Worry about that if offered the position. If you receive and offer and they offer 55k then take a look at healthcare costs, 401k, bonuses, other benefits/perks and see if you want to counter at a higher rate. I've countered for higher salary before because the healthcare insurance was much higher than I had currently. But like others have said this may be a red flag and get completely rescinded...If you already have a solid job and are not desperate and feel like you have leverage and are okay with the idea that you may lose out on the position then you're in a better position to try to pull this off.

Mike-Mike

soccarplayer29 wrote: »

Worry about that if offered the position. If you receive and offer and they offer 55k then take a look at healthcare costs, 401k, bonuses, other benefits/perks and see if you want to counter at a higher rate. I've countered for higher salary before because the healthcare insurance was much higher than I had currently.

I did something similar before and was successful at getting a small bump

powerfool

I have always had a hard time with this, myself. I say that I am looking for a range, for instance $55-60k, and that would be based on other benefits. I leave myself this out. With the exception of one offer, they have always come in with the bottom of the range... and then I see the benefits and say that they aren't as good and I would need the top end of the range to consider it, based on the benefits. We go back and forth and nothing comes of it so I pass on the job. One time, I did negotiate a sign on bonus based on taking a job the first working day of December and stating that my health insurance was a major factor and I would need to use COBRA for my current insurance for the last month of the year based on two things: 1) their 30-day waiting period (which is normally covered because folks get their insurance through the end of the month, but this was an odd circumstance where it wouldn't have happened for me), and 2) the deductible being reset to $0 for the last month of the year. So I got them to give me $2k to cover COBRA. The great thing about COBRA is you don't have to elect to use it right away and when you do choose to do so, it is retroactive. So, I just stashed that money away and I didn't need to execute COBRA. Win-win!

Vampler

Negotiating up from your base you threw out there is going to be very difficult. Unless you learn new information in your second interview or sell your self beyond the first you have no leverage now. If they come up with an offer higher than $55k you win. But if they offer something way off your figure you have little leverage. Personally as a hiring manager myself I don't negotiate. The field of talented candidates is large. If my offer is countered, I pass and move onto other candidates.

Vampler

I did want to add. Those questions like "how much" are not fair to the candidate. It's all designed to give the comp the leverage. Another way to answer the question is to turn it around and say "What is the salary band and where is the median for this position" If they come back with an answer of say $40k to 80k. You say, okay that's what I was thinking too. You've left it open and didn't lock in on any figure.

jeremywatts2005

I never lock a figure. I leave a wide range starting 20% or more than I currently make. That way anything they offer in the range is 20% more than I currently make. You could always say after reviewing all the details of the position you do not believe the salary of 55K would work.Then have notes from the iview that show discrepancies from the job description. Oh you did take notes in the iview right? That is one way out of your situation.

leboratorical

I don't necessarily think that they've nailed it down yet. I would say that at the end of the interview, if they haven't brought it up, then you do so.
As has also been stated, they haven't talked about benefits. When they bring up the compensation package and they're sticking to 55k, then by all means explain that you had a certain amount of your salary in benefits.
Extra vacation days
Extra vacation days that go up the longer you stay with the company
Allowed unpaid vacation days
Duvet days
bonus
profit sharing
pension
health
travel expenditure (petrol)

Basically, if you think you're missing, say 5k, then figure out what you'll be having to spend out in any case and see if you can make it back in benefits?

Skylinks

Thanks everyone. It won't matter, I just heard back and they said no. Oh well.

Thanks again.

yoba222

Oh well. At least they told you.

Skylinks

Yeah, I just wish that they would have told me as to why they said no.

ratbuddy

paul78 wrote: »

As a hiring manager, that would be a red-flag to me. In the past - I've retracted offers when candidates decided that they wanted more for whatever reason.

Do you mean after both sides already agreed, or do you mean that you've retracted offers when candidates attempted to negotiate up from what you initially offered?

paul78

ratbuddy wrote: »

Do you mean after both sides already agreed, or do you mean that you've retracted offers when candidates attempted to negotiate up from what you initially offered?

I meant after I've already agreed to compensation with a candidate verbally or through the recruiter and the written offer goes out. If the candidate comes back and ask for a higher base base after the written offer - I will retract the offer. I will basically stand firm on the package - if the candidate insist on a discussion, I'll strongly hint - something to the effect - "I hope you plan to join us but if we can't agree on compensation, I want to thank you for your time in considering working with us". If they don't get the hint, - I wish them luck elsewhere.

I'm always upfront about total package when discussing compensation before a written offer.

iBrokeIT

Skylinks wrote: »

Yeah, I just wish that they would have told me as to why they said no.

It is very likely they said NO because you pulled a bait and switch on them. You told them a number, they proceeded to invest time into the interview process based on the assumption that you would accept an offer at that original number and now you are telling them a different number. Imagine how you would feel if the reverse would happen...

Skylinks

iBrokeIT wrote: »

It is very likely they said NO because you pulled a bait and switch on them. You told them a number, they proceeded to invest time into the interview process based on the assumption that you would accept an offer at that original number and now you are telling them a different number. Imagine how you would feel if the reverse would happen...

I never renegotiated. If they had offered me 55K then I would have accepted it.

iBrokeIT

Skylinks wrote: »

I said $55,000 annually. They said that they can offer that much. ... Now am I selling myself too short here?

Skylinks wrote: »

How to negotiate a pay increase before I get hired?

Now read my second sentence again. You told them a number then tried to negotiate away from it. Don't tell them a number or a minimum you aren't willing to accept.

bigdogz

You may also want to add x amount of training... and/or receive an increase when you obtain a credential or two.